General Order Number One

[Control Voice]

The Prime Directive.
I've often pondered it and always wondered what would happen in the following scenario:
A pre-warp civilization on a planet rich in crystal and mineral. The Fed says we don't go there. However, a private organzation goes in and virtually subjugates the locals for the minerals. What would the Federation do? Or simply, does the Prime Directive apply to the civilian population as well as Starfleet?

 

[FormerLurker]

If the Federation says "We don't go there" it's safe to assume they mean everyone. Thus, if a private organization goes in and (presumably ruthlessly) exploits the locals for their resources, the Federation has Starfleet move in and just as ruthlessly removes the organization and prosecutes its executives and all employees who were willful participants in the exploitation. Meanwhile, some branch of Federation Psychological (whatever) goes in to do damage control, and at least attempts to put the locals back on a reasonable track for social evolution.

 

[at Quark's]

An interesting question, as I've seen it argued repeatedly here on trekBBS that we only know for certain Starfleet is bound by the Prime Directive (PD); not necessarily civilians (or companies) from the Federation or even the Federation itself.

So if some "naïve" civilian humanitarian (who never had anything to do with Starfleet) goes to a planet with the best of intentions, gives them advanced tech in the hope of improving their lives, and shows them cures to previously incurable diseases, etc, etc, etc, it remains to be seen if Starfleet can swoop in and cancel the entire operation. Perhaps they can, perhaps they can't. All we know for certain is that Starfleet isn't supposed to break the PD themselves.

But the above case would be very different from a ruthless company exploiting 'primitives'. Even if the PD doesn't hold in full strength for civilians, there very well might be a whole slew of additional laws that at least prevent exploitation of 'underdeveloped' worlds.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

Worf's foster brother was not Starfleet IIRC, but an independent Federation individual studying a pre-warp civilization. As also are the duckblind operators in "Who Watches the Watchers". The suggestion always seemed to be that they were meant to be bound by the law of non-interference.

It's referred to as the Prime Directive and Starfleet's general order number one. I don't think it's referred to as Starfleet's Prime Directive, so it could be the prime directive of the Federation. It is probably a case of upholding the Federation's Prime Directive being Starfleet's general order number one....

Apologies if I'm just rambling rather than making any sense.

 

[T'Girl]

So if some "naïve" civilian humanitarian (who never had anything to do with Starfleet) goes to a planet with the best of intentions

After collecting this person and moving them off the planet, what then?

If Starfleet didn't discover them right away, they might have had months (or years) to instruct the native population in things like digging wells, wet agriculture, rotating crops, nutrition, hygiene.

Your basic peace corp stuff.

Does Starfleet attempt to strip this knowledge from the natives, and how draconian would they be about doing it?

I don't think general order one applies to non-Starfleet, but as mentioned, it would be easy to see a separate agreement saying the same thing.

 

[hux]

What about those who aren't part of the Federation? How do we explain their (apparent) non-interference with pre-warp civilisations? We rarely see or hear about them plundering pre-warp planets for resources.

Are we to assume that there is a galaxy-wide, prime directive style agreement or is it the case that we just don't see the Romulans mining the shit out of a planet as the local cave men sit and watch in confusion?

 

[at Quark's]

Worf's foster brother was not Starfleet IIRC, but an independent Federation individual studying a pre-warp civilization. As also are the duckblind operators in "Who Watches the Watchers". The suggestion always seemed to be that they were meant to be bound by the law of non-interference.

It's referred to as the Prime Directive and Starfleet's general order number one. I don't think it's referred to as Starfleet's Prime Directive, so it could be the prime directive of the Federation. It is probably a case of upholding the Federation's Prime Directive being Starfleet's general order number one....

Apologies if I'm just rambling rather than making any sense.

Homeward is such a horrible mess that I'd rather tend to discard that episode. If I took it seriously, extinction of a species being preferable to interference to at least save said species, and deal with 'cultural contamination issues' later would be an acceptable interpretation of the PD in Picard's time -- and I won't accept that anytime soon. (And even contamination wouldn't have been necessary -- just sedate them, put them in stasis and transport them) . But OK, this is just an aside rant, and not really relevant to the argument .

That aside, it could be proof of the PD extending to other groups as well. However, mem Alpha says Nikolai was assigned to a 'cultural observation post', and we don't know under whose authority and charters such observation posts would fall. Could be that even though they are run by civilian-looking observers, they might still fall under a branch of Starfleet. Or any other organisation with their own rules.

In Who watches the watchers we see that the group of scientists themselves try to keep up their cloak as best as they can -- but I don't think the episode implies that they are formally bound by the PD -- though they could be, there also could be a (formal or informal) honour code among these researchers against cultural contamination, being very similar to the PD.

Also, it could be the case that the PD applies to more groups (e.g. scientists at government institutions in general), without applying to every citizen.

What about those who aren't part of the Federation? How do we explain their (apparent) non-interference with pre-warp civilisations? We rarely see or hear about them plundering pre-warp planets for resources.

Are we to assume that there is a galaxy-wide, prime directive style agreement or is it the case that we just don't see the Romulans mining the shit out of a planet as the local cave men sit and watch in confusion?

Well, in VOY there were the two Ferengi in the DQ. VOY interfered with them. Would be interesting to know what had happened had they tried their little scheme somewhere in the AQ or BQ (but outside Federation territory).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always assumed the Prime Directive was binding upon civilians as well as Starfleet personnel.

Either that, or Federation has a civilian version of the PD that applies to everyone.

(It's actually used in both ways in TOS; sometimes the PD is quoted as a Federation law, other times it's a Starfleet reg. So there's probably two of them.)

 

[T'Girl]

... we just don't see the Romulans mining the shit out of a planet as the local cave men sit and watch in confusion?

Remus.

 

[hux]

... we just don't see the Romulans mining the shit out of a planet as the local cave men sit and watch in confusion?

Remus.

But aren't the Remuns (whatever they're called) warp-aware if not warp capable?

Ultimately, this will probably boil down to jurisdiction (and in the case of Remus, it would be hard to argue with the Romulan claim) but what about the planets outside of anyone's jurisdiction?

If Romulans started mining on a planet with a 16th century style culture outside of anyone's jurisdiction, do the Federation ignore it?

 

[at Quark's]

... we just don't see the Romulans mining the shit out of a planet as the local cave men sit and watch in confusion?

Remus.

But aren't the Remuns (whatever they're called) warp-aware if not warp capable?

Wouldn't any technologically primitive species become at least 'warp aware' by necessity when directly interfered with and/or exploited by a warp-capable species ?

(that is, if the exploiting species chooses not to bother with masquerading as gods or anything of the kind -- and I estimate the Romulans wouldn't.)

 

[JirinPanthosa]

If they were Federation citizens they'd be removed. If it were inside Federation space, the planet would be protected.

For non-Federation citizens outside of Federation space, the Federation would react the same way they did when Cardassia occupied Bajor. Wait for them to leave on their own then move in and try to absorb them.

 

[hux]

Remus.

But aren't the Remuns (whatever they're called) warp-aware if not warp capable?

Wouldn't any technologically primitive species become at least 'warp aware' by necessity when directly interfered with and/or exploited by a warp-capable species ?

(that is, if the exploiting species chooses not to bother with masquerading as gods or anything of the kind -- and I estimate the Romulans wouldn't.)

I meant warp-aware in the sense that the remuns were aware of the Romulans before the Romulans were warp capable themselves.

Can a culture be contaminated by a warp capable species if the culture in question was already aware of that species before they became warp capable?

I don't know what the history is supposed to be but I got the impression that the Remuns were relatively equal but then when the Romulans advanced technologically, that's when they began to oppress them.

Dunno though.

 

[at Quark's]

I meant warp-aware in the sense that the remuns were aware of the Romulans before the Romulans were warp capable themselves.

Can a culture be contaminated by a warp capable species if the culture in question was already aware of that species before they became warp capable?

I don't know what the history is supposed to be but I got the impression that the Remuns were relatively equal but then when the Romulans advanced technologically, that's when they began to oppress them.

Dunno though.

Could be. Then again, it could be otherwise. I think very little is known about the history of the Remans (at least, when only including onscreen material...)

 

[T'Girl]

If they were Federation citizens they'd be removed. If it were inside Federation space, the planet would be protected.

Would the Federation have the capacity to protect every "primitive" world inside their territory?

Looking at some of the different maps produced through the years, the number of stars within the Federation is easily in the billions, with perhaps planets with indigenous intelligence numbering in the hundreds of thousands.

Protection wouldn't be a given.

 

[uniderth]

This is why I would love to have seen the trial and error development of the Prime Directive. We have similar parallels here on earth with the uncontacted tribes in the Amazon. Historically when groups have made first contact with tribes it is devastating because the tribes have no immunity to the diseases of the visitors. So there is an effort to protect these uncontacted tribes from outside contact.

But I think this is an interesting situation. What exactly are we trying to preserve? Cultures are always changing. They can't ever be preserved in a single state. Additionally what you observe you also change. In order to prove the uncontacted tribes existed they had to fly a plane over the jungle and document them on video. This act alone would create immense changes in their culture and thus the attempts to preserve a culture also lead to its change.

To me that was the most interesting aspect of Homeward. Nickolai's efforts to preserve the culture of those people lead to the destruction of the culture he was trying to save. That seems to be the double edged sword of the Prime Directive. By not interfering and preserving a culture from destruction, the culture will die. But if you do act and try to save the culture you will probably end up changing the culture anyway, thus destroying the thing you were trying to preserve.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

If they were Federation citizens they'd be removed. If it were inside Federation space, the planet would be protected.

Would the Federation have the capacity to protect every "primitive" world inside their territory?

Looking at some of the different maps produced through the years, the number of stars within the Federation is easily in the billions, with perhaps planets with indigenous intelligence numbering in the hundreds of thousands.

Protection wouldn't be a given.

If you only count the ones with intelligent life it's probably more like thousands. The Federation has no problem with interfering or even terraforming planets that support life if there isn't intelligent life there.

If there isn't a major war going on like the Dominion War or a Borg scare, there probably isn't a lot of day to day work for the non-Enterprise ships just patrolling Federation space, and there's probably secret observation stations on most of them like in Who Watches The Watchers. I think they'd be able to protect them.

 

[at Quark's]

If you only count the ones with intelligent life it's probably more like thousands. .

Probably we can bring that number even further down by considering only native intelligent life.

Although ... suppose an ancient colony of Vulcans was discovered that had descended to, say, the bronze age. (e.g. like the Mintakans, but clearly non-native in this case)... would the PD apply to such groups, too?

 

[Timo]

I always assumed the Prime Directive was binding upon civilians as well as Starfleet personnel. Either that, or Federation has a civilian version of the PD that applies to everyone. (It's actually used in both ways in TOS; sometimes the PD is quoted as a Federation law, other times it's a Starfleet reg. So there's probably two of them.)

For all we know, General Order #1 says "A Starfleet employee must obey the Prime Directive of the Federation" and nothing else...

The only time the non-interference rule applies to a civilian is in TOS "Bread and Circuses". In TNG "Angel One", Data rather categorically says that civilians don't have to mind it, while Starfleet in turn can do nothing to stop the civilians because they have to mind the PD. Did something change in a century, or was Kirk simply lying to get his man?

Would the Federation have the capacity to protect every "primitive" world inside their territory?

They could probably react after the fact if they kept monitoring devices around or launched enough probes. From what we see in the shows, starship visits wouldn't keep random planets safe - they can barely protect known non-primitive assets such as the colonies of the Federation itself. But we don't see much in the way of monitoring systems, either, and don't get a good impression of the capabilities or quantity of probes.

What exactly are we trying to preserve?

Humanoid lives? That goal would remain even if preservation of a culture proved futile. "Homeward" is just about the only episode where the heroes don't attempt to save humanoids (even if they obviously would have to leave millions to die while saving a handful); "Pen Pals" features a rescue operation despite some idle discussion beforehand, and Kirk saves people against their will every second episode.

Although ... suppose an ancient colony of Vulcans was discovered that had descended to, say, the bronze age. (e.g. like the Mintakans, but clearly non-native in this case)... would the PD apply to such groups, too?

It would appear that ST:INS was based on the premise that the UFP Council would take a look at an obvious interstellar colonization party that has gone native and declare it exempt of PD protection exactly because they were not primitives.

The definition of "primitive" in practice being "not aware of the interstellar community (any more) and thus not being influenced by it". The Ba'ku clearly were aware and could not be "spoiled" by interference. After that, things would have to move beyond the scope of the PD and into more complex legislation concerning settlement rights and UFP powers.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Angel One was not in Federation space.