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Trek Returning to TV in 2017!

Well, if Trek 09's goal was to get rid of all the 'baggage', they utterly failed! (despite making a fun movie)

At this point, the prime universe and the JJverse have an equally complicated backstory. The fun thing is: The basic set of rules are the same in each universe! ("no beaming through shields!", "Warp engines for interstellar travel, impulse engines for battle maneuvers", "Tricorders", "Phaserss set on stun").

In fact: The JJverse is already more muddled! (Transwarp beaming? Seriously, there will never ever be excitement on any away mission again, if the landing party can beam straight back to EARTH if they are in danger!)

If you watch the pilot episodes of TNG, VOY or ENT you can dive right into, without needing to have ever seen any episode of previous Star Trek before.

To completely understand Star Trek into Darkness you need extensive knowledge of plot points from episodes and movies more than 30 years ago...

I personally disagree. My wife finds Abrams Trek more accessible and to her liking than most other films and series that I have shown her.

By that argument, one cannot really enjoy TWOK without seeing Space Seed first-which was GR's own argument against how Khan was presented in the film. I personally enjoy STID because I can look at the deeper aspects of it while still sharing it with my wife and others who are less familiar with Star Trek.

Also, transwarp beaming is an issue? What ever happened to all the other game changing tech of the week? Trek has had transporters reverse aging, separate people in to their good and evil selves and then back again, as well as that interphasing cloak-that sounded promising.

Sorry, transwarp beaming is right there with the rest of the Trek tech.
 
Well, if Trek 09's goal was to get rid of all the 'baggage', they utterly failed! (despite making a fun movie)

At this point, the prime universe and the JJverse have an equally complicated backstory. The fun thing is: The basic set of rules are the same in each universe! ("no beaming through shields!", "Warp engines for interstellar travel, impulse engines for battle maneuvers", "Tricorders", "Phaserss set on stun").

In fact: The JJverse is already more muddled! (Transwarp beaming? Seriously, there will never ever be excitement on any away mission again, if the landing party can beam straight back to EARTH if they are in danger!)

If you watch the pilot episodes of TNG, VOY or ENT you can dive right into, without needing to have ever seen any episode of previous Star Trek before.

To completely understand Star Trek into Darkness you need extensive knowledge of plot points from episodes and movies more than 30 years ago...

I personally disagree. My wife finds Abrams Trek more accessible and to her liking than most other films and series that I have shown her.

By that argument, one cannot really enjoy TWOK without seeing Space Seed first-which was GR's own argument against how Khan was presented in the film. I personally enjoy STID because I can look at the deeper aspects of it while still sharing it with my wife and others who are less familiar with Star Trek.

Also, transwarp beaming is an issue? What ever happened to all the other game changing tech of the week? Trek has had transporters reverse aging, separate people in to their good and evil selves and then back again, as well as that interphasing cloak-that sounded promising.

Sorry, transwarp beaming is right there with the rest of the Trek tech.


Nope. Transwarp-beaming is much worse, because it changes the basic story telling rules of Star Trek. All these other instances just "reversed" one-off problems.

Basically: After Transwarp it would make much more sense a new series would have the basic approach of Stargate: A small away team beaming to a new planet every week.

Every fictional universe starts to crack if it's own rules are disbanded. This is especially baffling considering they could have easily made Khan beaming to a small starship that is then being tracked to Kronos.

That being said, the new movies are wildy entertaining movies! They are basically action movies with a slight dose of space opera, which is WAY more easy to get into for someone who is unfamiliar with science fiction.
And basically that's exactly what the movies should be: Entertaining. And in the best case, introducing new people to the genre.
My biggest complaint about those movies basically is: At a time when all major Studios try to emulate a cohesive multi-media universe like Marvel, they split a perfectly funtioning one in half on purpose, splitting the core fanbase and confusing new audiences.

(Seriously! I can easily explain my friends: "this takes place before the original series, but looks more modern because it was made recently". It's much harder to explain why an older Spock dies and gets resurrected on Vulcan, while a younger Spock lives and sees Vulcan explode.)

Discounting all the other different plot loopes, like what happened to unaffected events like V'ger and the whale probe, and the need to make another first encounter with basically all known species like the Borg or the Dominion... Really, they should have either made a prequel (because honestly, they will never change the status quo enough to justifiy the alternate timeline - like letting major well known character like Sulu or Uhura die) or they should have made a clean reboot. This neither fish nor meat- approach has resulted in two entertaining movies, and serious brand confusion for everyone who isn't a hardcore nerd...
 
Also, transwarp beaming is an issue? What ever happened to all the other game changing tech of the week? Trek has had transporters reverse aging, separate people in to their good and evil selves and then back again, as well as that interphasing cloak-that sounded promising.

Sorry, transwarp beaming is right there with the rest of the Trek tech.

Six years of bitching still has me scratching my head about it.
 
Discounting all the other different plot loopes, like what happened to unaffected events like V'ger and the whale probe, and the need to make another first encounter with basically all known species like the Borg or the Dominion... Really, they should have either made a prequel (because honestly, they will never change the status quo enough to justifiy the alternate timeline - like letting major well known character die - or they should have made a clean reboot. This neither fish nor meat- approach has resulted in two entertaining movies, and serious brand confusion for everyone who isn't a hardcore nerd...

What exactly is confusing? I just don't get it.
 
Discounting all the other different plot loopes, like what happened to unaffected events like V'ger and the whale probe, and the need to make another first encounter with basically all known species like the Borg or the Dominion... Really, they should have either made a prequel (because honestly, they will never change the status quo enough to justifiy the alternate timeline - like letting major well known character die - or they should have made a clean reboot. This neither fish nor meat- approach has resulted in two entertaining movies, and serious brand confusion for everyone who isn't a hardcore nerd...

What exactly is confusing? I just don't get it.


Bro, do you actually read before you comment? It's exactly one paragraph above the cited passage:

(Seriously! I can easily explain my friends: "this takes place before the original series, but looks more modern because it was made recently". It's much harder to explain why an older Spock dies and gets resurrected on Vulcan, while a younger Spock lives and sees Vulcan explode.)
 
Ah hemm ..I have it on good authority, the new Star Trek series will be animated..
staring new characters..

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGsP8soCrSE[/yt]
 
Discounting all the other different plot loopes, like what happened to unaffected events like V'ger and the whale probe, and the need to make another first encounter with basically all known species like the Borg or the Dominion... Really, they should have either made a prequel (because honestly, they will never change the status quo enough to justifiy the alternate timeline - like letting major well known character die - or they should have made a clean reboot. This neither fish nor meat- approach has resulted in two entertaining movies, and serious brand confusion for everyone who isn't a hardcore nerd...

What exactly is confusing? I just don't get it.


Bro, do you actually read before you comment? It's exactly one paragraph above the cited passage:

(Seriously! I can easily explain my friends: "this takes place before the original series, but looks more modern because it was made recently". It's much harder to explain why an older Spock dies and gets resurrected on Vulcan, while a younger Spock lives and sees Vulcan explode.)

I read it. I just question the number of brain cells your friends actually have that it confuses them?

Clear?

Seriously, did they furrow their brows in utter confusion when Batman is played by different actors and the movies/TV show/comic books tell contradictory stories?
 
Nope. Transwarp-beaming is much worse, because it changes the basic story telling rules of Star Trek. All these other instances just "reversed" one-off problems.

Oh, who cares? Throw out the rules and make something that's entertaining.

"Don't call it Star Trek, then?"

Fine. Take all the money that would be pissed away by making more stuffy, pointless old Star Trek kabuki theatre for a tiny audience of people who are shuffling closer and closer to the dirt nap, spend it on making something really good that really does at least some of the things that trufans like to claim Star Trek does but that the damned show has been incapable of accomplishing for decades...and call it something else.

I'll go pay six bucks to watch that show and the protectors of the True Church of Trek can go throw some more money at Star Trek: Renegades.
 
The JJTrek bar scenes were refreshing! :techman:

I recently re-watched The Ascent (DS9), and the interaction between Odo and Quark felt real, rather than "evolved". :bolian:

Quark: Remember what I said to you on that mountain?
Odo: Yes?:
Quark: I meant every word of it"
Both laugh

That's what I love about DS9, just how they say things.


Yeah, as much as I criticize Nu Trek, I liked that scene. I found it refreshing and interesting. People acting like people. :lol: I could have watched scenes like that all day.


Well, if Trek 09's goal was to get rid of all the 'baggage', they utterly failed! (despite making a fun movie)

In fact: The JJverse is already more muddled! (Transwarp beaming? Seriously, there will never ever be excitement on any away mission again, if the landing party can beam straight back to EARTH if they are in danger!)

That's one problem I've noticed too, with all Treks-- everything has been done already--there's no mystery anymore.

Time Travel, faster than warp speed, telepathy, alternate realities--it's all been done over and over again.

Notice, especially in the prime universes, noone reacts much to things like time travel anymore. It's almost commonly accepted. Remember when characters (and fans) were fascinated and stunned by things like that----

Another episode I think is underrated is "The sound of her voice" DS9. Sisko and crew receive a distress message from a stranded starfleet captain- they talk to her in real time, and have real conversations with each other.

They rushed to her location only to find her dead for years.

Turns out the distress signal she sent somehow timeshifted into the future so they received a distressed signal from the past. They had been literally talking to a ghost.

In some ways, it had a real Twilight Zone feel to it.
You are absolutely right about the TZ feeling in that episode. The Next Generation's “Frame of Mind” is also very TZ-like with its questions about what is real and what isn't. Would be interesting to think about what other Trek episodes could work as Twilight Zones.



These episodes have that right mix of sci-fi and irony that gives off that Twilight Zone vibe. There was a scene when Riker was so messed up, he refused to respond to Beverly when she beamed down in disguised to tell him they were trying to rescue him. He didnt know if it was real or not :lol:

Another one I can remember is Course: Oblivion Voyager. The one where a perfect copy of the Voyager and the crew is re-created . They have perfect memories of everything except being created by the Demon planet. They do everything normal-- get married, have children etc.

They start degrading as they travel further away from the planet. The crew starts dying. They finally discovered what happened and try to return to the planet.

The ship starts breaking up, and they send a distress signal. The real Voyager picks it up, and travels to meet them, but when they arrive they find only very small debris.

The ship was destroyed, so no one, neither Voyager or the universe, even knew they existed.

It's considered a take it or leave it episode.

These episodes work the best, when you catch the irony at the end of the episodes, rather than looking for things in the middle.
 
What exactly is confusing? I just don't get it.


Bro, do you actually read before you comment? It's exactly one paragraph above the cited passage:

(Seriously! I can easily explain my friends: "this takes place before the original series, but looks more modern because it was made recently". It's much harder to explain why an older Spock dies and gets resurrected on Vulcan, while a younger Spock lives and sees Vulcan explode.)

I read it. I just question the number of brain cells your friends actually have that it confuses them?

Clear?


Well, how about A JOB?

Not everyone has all day to spare, sitting alone at home, mumbling about how those normal people have neither the time nor the patience to get into the complicated alternate-timeline history backstory of a fictional universe, just to enjoy a bit of scifi action...
 
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Nope. Transwarp-beaming is much worse, because it changes the basic story telling rules of Star Trek. All these other instances just "reversed" one-off problems.

Oh, who cares? Throw out the rules and make something that's entertaining.

"Don't call it Star Trek, then?"

Fine. Take all the money that would be pissed away by making more stuffy, pointless old Star Trek kabuki theatre for a tiny audience of people who are shuffling closer and closer to the dirt nap, spend it on making something really good that really does at least some of the things that trufans like to claim Star Trek does but that the damned show has been incapable of accomplishing for decades...and call it something else.

I'll go pay six bucks to watch that show and the protectors of the True Church of Trek can go throw some more money at Star Trek: Renegades.


Well, I freakin love Stargate. I just wouldn't want it to turn into Battlestar Galactica half way through (and apparently I'm not alone, not many people enjoyed Stargate Universe). And neither would I like Star Trek to turn into Starship Troopers or Wormhole X-treme.

I have absolutely zero problems with a new series with new narrative rules. It's only important to have internal consistency.


BTW 'Church of Star Trek' is a bullsh't strawman argument if I'v ever heard one...

If a story breaks apart just by looking at it's plot, there's probably something wrong with it, completely independant about in which franchise/universe the plot takes place. But then again: this would require to actually pay attention to the story and, you know, actually think about it for a minute...
 
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A story breaking some beloved piece of continuity is not the same as a plot that doesn't work. It's just annoying to trufans.
 
How about the title of the new show? Will is simply be Star Trek (again)? Or something more vague but with the franchise recognition like Enterprise? Somehow I doubt they will call it Star Trek: [Ship Name], like they did in the 90s with Deep Space Nine and Voyager.

How about To Boldly Go or 1701? :mallory:

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A story breaking some beloved piece of continuity is not the same as a plot that doesn't work. It's just annoying to trufans.
On the surface, that doesn't appear to address the story problem that transwarp beaming short circuits any need for starships, making Star Trek a degenerative case.
 
I got the impression watching JJ's film that I was being mocked with being told to digest transwarp transporters, Scott as a kind of interstellar answer to Shaggy from Scooby Doo, Kirk from cadet to captain in a couple of days, all dominated by OTT FX that would cripple anyone with even mild epilepsy as well as clumsily crowbarring in scenes pinched from the 80's films and making them horrifically empty. That's alot of madness for one film.

I'm sure if you teased out TWOK you'd get whopper inconsistencies there too - I get that - but I never got the feeling I was being mocked with that film. That film was great, original cinema with heavy, well paced performances from the leading actors and a rich but balanced aesthetic. An anguished Scott holding the dead engineer in his arms,. Kirk and Spock at the end was an original and a very profound scene. The charged, charismatic malevolence of Montalban challenging Kirk whilst dripping with a raw thirst for revenge. Rather than re imagining it (or lo and behold being creative and taking a few risks), it just seemed that JJ carelessly ripped it all off and crammed it into the film and it was all a bit of an empty mess. (Bar some scenes with Kirk and Pike that I did like)
 
Well, how about a job?

Not everyone has all day to spare, sitting alone at home, mumbling about how those normal people have neither the time nor the patience to get into the complicated alternate-timeline history backstory of a fictional universe, just to enjoy a few scifi stories...
They explained that in the movie. It wasn't all that complicated. And I don't think anymore than that is needed.
 
Notice, especially in the prime universes, noone reacts much to things like time travel anymore. It's almost commonly accepted. Remember when characters (and fans) were fascinated and stunned by things like that----
My problem now with stories about time travel is that they almost always depend on the cliché of propagational effects. By that I mean of the sort Back to the Future uses, Star Trek uses in abundance to hit the reset button, and the kill-your-grandfather paradox where things done to the past propagate to alter the future. I'd like to see more done with the Many-worlds interpretation instead. The Abramsverse sort of does this, but how it was done for Star Trek is unsatisfying to me. Greg Cox, I don't know your work, but how about it?
 
Well, a reboot usually has the job of streamlining and simplifying the backstory, to make it more accessible to new audiences.

Star Trek 09 actually belongs in the category of Man of Steel, and Terminator: Genisys. Reboots that, strangely enough complicating the backstory, alienating long-term fans and being too self-referential for newcomers. Resulting in moderate box office success, but massively underperforming expectations, given the brand loyalty and pop cultural icons involved.

If you only want the new series take place in the JJverse because it's 'new' and 'shiny', you can rest assured: The new series will look cool in whatever timeline it takes place!


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