"The Zygon Inversion" Grade and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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I still think it was a mistake to allow them to settle on Earth, of all the places, and who is to say this won't happen again and what if there's no Doctor the next time to deal with this?
And nobody's batting an eye at the Doctor giving his first name as 'Basil.' I'm assuming we all think he's lying.
If he regenerates into Michael York you won't be saying that.
I was thinking John Cleese.
Well yes, the big flaw is that talking Bonnie round wouldn't stop the other Zygons who supported her. They'd just call her a traitor and start the next coup by killing her. It's the 'Leader' theory of history.
But the 15 times line vaguely covers it. This is problem 16, there will be 17, 18.... but the ceasfire will hold, imperfectly.
That's why you have the Osgoods. We don't know if the Doctor was there the first dozen times. We don't know if there are a dozen more times he doesn't know about.
The scene in the Black Archives with the two boxes makes the whole episode worth it. Capaldi carries that scene superbly! My favorite part is when the Doctor references the Time War, "You call this a war, this funny little thing. This is not a war! I fought in a bigger war that you will ever know. I did worst things that you will ever imagine. When I close my eyes ... I hear more screams than anyone would ever be able to count. And you know what you do with all that pain. Should I tell you where you put it? You hold it tight, until it burns your hands. And you say this:"no one else will ever have to live like this! No one else will have to feel this pain! Not on my watch!""
Capaldi delivers these lines brilliantly, with such fire in his belly and agony on his face.
Capaldi delivers these lines brilliantly, with such fire in his belly and agony on his face.
The thing I loved about that scene was it was just Capaldi. No music, no background noise, just the Doctor giving probably the best moment of the Capaldi era.
Yeah, it just proves that great writing and great acting can do far more for a story than fancy effects. I would also add that many of the most memorable moments in both nuWho and Classic Who have been moments like that, where it is just the Doctor giving a powerful speech.
And, I also appreciate how those lines show the Doctor's unique perspective. He is a Time Lord after all and one who fought in the Great Time War itself. He would indeed have a perspective on history and war that would dwarf anything that humans or zygons could imagine.
Yeah, I get the message they're trying to make about the two Osgoods being a dual entity and therefore just because one is actually an alien covered with suckers doesn't make it any less Osgood than the real one. But let's assume for a moment that the real Osgood was killed by Missy and this is the Zygon. Won't she at some point revert to her natural form, perhaps even unintentionally due to interference with her concentration? And now that Commander Bonnie has taken on the Osgood form, if she is indeed copying a Zygon copy shouldn't there be some manner of degradation, causing a less than perfect imitation?
Really, I couldn't care less whether this was the real Osgood or her Zygon double. Like I said, I wasn't expecting a straight answer anyway. What I don't get is how can this mystery even exist, there must be some detail to give away which is which. They're trying too hard to make the point without properly thinking through the implications of what they're establishing. Which I guess is typical Moffat.
IMO the real Osgood died at the hands of Missy. The Osgood strutting about during Invasion/Inversion was the Zygon duplicate. Now we have Bonnie also taking the form of Osgood. The Zygon-Human peace is being maintained by two Zygons, who would rather be Osgood than themselves.
I'm still not convinced a Zygon could keep the specific appearance of someone if that human died. A generic appearance maybe.
Also, we had Missy make a statement about how Osgood smelled before she killed her. Unless there really was more of an even exchange between human Osgood & Zygon Osgood where each was a mix of both.
Except... would the real Osgood, one familiar with the Master's record, have been suckered in by Missy the way she was? The Osgood of these last two episodes certainly wouldn't be. (Don't even get me started about Missy's 'guards'...)
But as diankra, and I said who is to say this can't all happen again and they just kill Bonnie / Osgood and start the whole mess over again?
And maybe then the Doctor can't come and fix things. I just wonder what happens then?
So the rank and file in UNIT play along Laughing at Kate every time they're told that this is the first time the cease fire has been broken, and that they should all be pooping their pants.
The Osgood we saw in Inversion of the Zygons seemed not to know some basic facts about the Doctor as well. Like what TARDIS stood for, and others things that I can't recall atm. However, it did seem odd to me when I first watched the episode that Osgood would be asking these types of questions.
I'll have to watch it again to get specifics.
That's easy enough to explain as this Osgood learned her lesson after what happened to her "sister" and is now extra cautious.
She also didn't seem to know which incarnation the Doctor is on, based on her "I'd shoot you twelve times if necessary" line. Of course, at this point, does Moffat even know?
Moffat? I thought this story was done by the guy that did Kill The Moon?
Moffat got a co-writing credit.
Ah I see.
I just discovered this awful TV show called Zoo and it's based on a really ordinary book which I read..
If there's a scent difference, why would the Doctor need to ask which was which?
Are the eyebrows draining power from the nasal receptors?
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