My hope for the new series

[The Wormhole]

I would still disagree. Even in the original show, the Enterprise's mission was to "Explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one/man has gone before". It's mission was not "To patrol the borders, to intercept enemies, to protect our space", etc. Starfleet is the future of NASA, not the military.

Kirk's backstory as detailed in the TOS writer's guide details a career spent serving on destroyers and frigates, which are undeniably military type vessels.

The Enterprise Incident starts off with the Enterprise on border patrol, which itself is a part in a complex espionage mission to acquire enemy military hardware. Intercepting enemies is what Balance of Terror is all about, while "protect our space" is basically the plot to Arena and Errand of Mercy. In fact, Errand of Mercy has Kirk favoring a military solution and he even identifies himself as a soldier.

Starfleet of TOS is very clearly meant to be the US Navy in space. Besides, in the old days when Earth was still largely uncharted, it was the military which looked after exploration. Since Starfleet is all about doing what worked on Earth in space, it would make the most sense for Earth to send a military organization to explore space.

 

[martok2112]

I would still disagree. Even in the original show, the Enterprise's mission was to "Explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one/man has gone before". It's mission was not "To patrol the borders, to intercept enemies, to protect our space", etc. Starfleet is the future of NASA, not the military.

Kirk's backstory as detailed in the TOS writer's guide details a career spent serving on destroyers and frigates, which are undeniably military type vessels.

The Enterprise Incident starts off with the Enterprise on border patrol, which itself is a part in a complex espionage mission to acquire enemy military hardware. Intercepting enemies is what Balance of Terror is all about, while "protect our space" is basically the plot to Arena and Errand of Mercy. In fact, Errand of Mercy has Kirk favoring a military solution and he even identifies himself as a soldier.

Starfleet of TOS is very clearly meant to be the US Navy in space. Besides, in the old days when Earth was still largely uncharted, it was the military which looked after exploration. Since Starfleet is all about doing what worked on Earth in space, it would make the most sense for Earth to send a military organization to explore space.

And let's not forget, there is officially a dreadnaught (which is a military vessel in naval terms). Star Trek The Motion Picture, during the Epsilon IX introductory scene. Listen closely to the communications. Dreadnaught Entente is mentioned, by name and registry, as are the scout Columbia and another ship. And the ship's registries come straight from the Franz Joseph Star Trek Technical Manual. When I was in the Army many years ago, and was watching the VHS (remember those?) of ST:TMP, listening to the comms chatter...when I heard those names, I cross referenced them with my handy, dandy Franz Joseph ST Tech Manual, and sure enough, there they were, plain as bollocks on a bulldog. (Seriously, even though you don't wanna look at all, ya' just can't miss 'em.)

That means at least some of the TM and ships mentioned therein have gone where so few external entries have gone before.... canon, baby! (Wait...somehow that last statement just sounded so...wrong...on so many different levels.)

 

[T'Girl]

My idea, have a rival power compete with the Federation, starships from this other power are trying to get newly discovered civilizations to join them over the Federation and is trying to get claim new planets to take their resources, all so they can be in a good position to attack the Federation at a future date.

Which is what we've seen before, so if I can suggest a slight change.

The rival isn't a enemy, more a competitor. A competitor for new members, new worlds to colonize, new trade partners, new natural resources to drive and expand their civilization.

Not particularly looking for war with the Federation, but will use limited force if the Federation deliberately get in their path.

We first hear of them on the new series when a Federation member cancels their membership, in order to freely join the rival.

It's mission was not "To patrol the borders, to intercept enemies, to protect our space", etc.

Except this is exactly what we see them doing.

.

 

[martok2112]

My idea, have a rival power compete with the Federation, starships from this other power are trying to get newly discovered civilizations to join them over the Federation and is trying to get claim new planets to take their resources, all so they can be in a good position to attack the Federation at a future date.

Which is what we've seen before, so if I can suggest a slight change.

The rival isn't a enemy, more a competitor. A competitor for new members, new worlds to colonize, new trade partners, new natural resources to drive and expand their civilization.

Not particularly looking for war with the Federation, but will use limited force if the Federation deliberately get in their path.

We first hear of them on the new series when a Federation member cancels their membership, in order to freely join the rival.


.

Said competitor could even be (if we wanna throw a sort of twist into it) a throwback kind of organization... one that looks on monetary and business gains, rather than exploration and such. Now, I'm not necessarily talking about the Ferengi. I'm talking about an organization from Earth that somehow has managed to exist since the founding of the Federation, and has eventually managed to get enough resources to have a force that could rival StarFleet. But, knowing that the Earth they remembers from history back no longer exists, they have founded their own world base on another planet. They set out with their own ships.

Whereas the Federation works toward the betterment of all, this corporate entity works to make its profits, forge monetary business trade with other worlds, forms protectorates (and alliances where possible). They don't feel bound by the Prime Directive, but they're not necessarily out to corrupt or enslave worlds.

The Federation may take a dim view to this corporate competition for the trust and membership of worlds, but it's not like the Federation can really do anything about it. This organization operates outside of Federation law. The forces they have can actually contest whether or not it is "Federation" space, and the Federation may have a hard time trying to press home any legality of the Prime Directive to this competitor.

It kinda becomes a "he who has the most planets, rules the quadrant" kind of thing. Until then, there are territories. Some are Fed territory, others are the corporate force territory. The two powers might have to do some negotiating if one has to traverse the other's territory.

However, even the corporate entity respects things like the Klingon and Romulan Neutral Zones. They have no desire to start a war, and understand that neither the Klingons, nor the Romulans are likely to discriminate between StarFleet forces and Corporate forces, especially if either tries to cross the Neutral Zones.

To the Federation's surprise, the corporate controlled worlds seem to prosper about as well as Federation planets. Little, if any conflict. No starvation. No faction wars. They aren't perfect utopias, but they do alright. Every now and again, the corporate forces might have to put out a small brush fire in their own territory, but nothing has broken out into full on open warfare.

This entity could be a dramatic foil for the Federation, without having to be overly antagonistic.

There might even come a time where the two forces realize that they can defend their respective territories as joint forces should the Klingons or Romulans decide to try an invasion, or start a war.

 

[Mudd]

I would still disagree. Even in the original show, the Enterprise's mission was to "Explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one/man has gone before". It's mission was not "To patrol the borders, to intercept enemies, to protect our space", etc. Starfleet is the future of NASA, not the military.

No.

Roddenberry and most of the other producers along with many of the writers were of an age to have served in the military during WWII and/or Korea. It was simple, and very smart, for them to place their characters within a military framework. Not only was it a familiar, contemporary kind of organization which helped the audience to identify with these characters in a putative future society, but due to widespread conscription military service was part of the personal experience of much of the American population at that time. Odds are you'd either been in the military or had close family who had.

Beyond that, Roddenberry wasn't inventing anything here - putting space explorers in some version of the Navy out there in their starships was a science fiction trope that went back at least as far as the 1920s. Roddenberry almost certainly cribbed it directly from the movie Forbidden Planet.

Within the continuity of Star Trek itself, Starfleet is military because - well, because nothing else is. The Federation of Planets uses armed force and engages in war almost as frequently as the United States of America does, and when they do it's Starfleet that fights the wars.



Starfleet stopped being military, most likely, simply because as a post-Vietnam liberal creative living in southern California Gene Roddenberry came to be embarrassed in the 1970s by having created a fantasy military that so many people admired and play-acted at. So by authorial dictate he simply declared Starfleet suddenly to be "para-military" and insisted that it had always been so.

 

[T'Girl]

But then we got the charming and amusing scene where Picard states that Starfleet isn't a military, right after the same Starfleet orders him to have his heavily armed starship engage in a war game.

 

[Kor]

^ Well, that line came from the same Captain whose response to a hostile engagement in the very first episode was "We surrender."

Kor

 

[The Overlord]

My idea, have a rival power compete with the Federation, starships from this other power are trying to get newly discovered civilizations to join them over the Federation and is trying to get claim new planets to take their resources, all so they can be in a good position to attack the Federation at a future date.

Which is what we've seen before, so if I can suggest a slight change.

The rival isn't a enemy, more a competitor. A competitor for new members, new worlds to colonize, new trade partners, new natural resources to drive and expand their civilization.

Not particularly looking for war with the Federation, but will use limited force if the Federation deliberately get in their path.

We first hear of them on the new series when a Federation member cancels their membership, in order to freely join the rival.


.

Said competitor could even be (if we wanna throw a sort of twist into it) a throwback kind of organization... one that looks on monetary and business gains, rather than exploration and such. Now, I'm not necessarily talking about the Ferengi. I'm talking about an organization from Earth that somehow has managed to exist since the founding of the Federation, and has eventually managed to get enough resources to have a force that could rival StarFleet. But, knowing that the Earth they remembers from history back no longer exists, they have founded their own world base on another planet. They set out with their own ships.

Whereas the Federation works toward the betterment of all, this corporate entity works to make its profits, forge monetary business trade with other worlds, forms protectorates (and alliances where possible). They don't feel bound by the Prime Directive, but they're not necessarily out to corrupt or enslave worlds.

The Federation may take a dim view to this corporate competition for the trust and membership of worlds, but it's not like the Federation can really do anything about it. This organization operates outside of Federation law. The forces they have can actually contest whether or not it is "Federation" space, and the Federation may have a hard time trying to press home any legality of the Prime Directive to this competitor.

It kinda becomes a "he who has the most planets, rules the quadrant" kind of thing. Until then, there are territories. Some are Fed territory, others are the corporate force territory. The two powers might have to do some negotiating if one has to traverse the other's territory.

However, even the corporate entity respects things like the Klingon and Romulan Neutral Zones. They have no desire to start a war, and understand that neither the Klingons, nor the Romulans are likely to discriminate between StarFleet forces and Corporate forces, especially if either tries to cross the Neutral Zones.

To the Federation's surprise, the corporate controlled worlds seem to prosper about as well as Federation planets. Little, if any conflict. No starvation. No faction wars. They aren't perfect utopias, but they do alright. Every now and again, the corporate forces might have to put out a small brush fire in their own territory, but nothing has broken out into full on open warfare.

This entity could be a dramatic foil for the Federation, without having to be overly antagonistic.

There might even come a time where the two forces realize that they can defend their respective territories as joint forces should the Klingons or Romulans decide to try an invasion, or start a war.

No offense, but this show could become really dull if its just the Federation and its rival trying to convince some neutral planet to sign a trade agreement or something. We need an antagonistic power to create conflict and peril, to create high stakes scenarios. I think Star Wars prequels showed that space politics can be pretty dull if not handled well.

I think a corporate power should be more aggressive, look at all the immoral things corporations do in real life. The Federation vs. a power that is kinda bad but not really doesn't really make for exciting TV.

 

[The Wormhole]

But then we got the charming and amusing scene where Picard states that Starfleet isn't a military, right after the same Starfleet orders him to have his heavily armed starship engage in a war game.

Even though TNG had characters actually stating Starfleet isn't military, it still totally is. Hell, Chief O'Brien's backstory as established in The Wounded is that he was once a Starfleet infantryman.

 

[martok2112]

Which is what we've seen before, so if I can suggest a slight change.

The rival isn't a enemy, more a competitor. A competitor for new members, new worlds to colonize, new trade partners, new natural resources to drive and expand their civilization.

Not particularly looking for war with the Federation, but will use limited force if the Federation deliberately get in their path.

We first hear of them on the new series when a Federation member cancels their membership, in order to freely join the rival.


.

Said competitor could even be (if we wanna throw a sort of twist into it) a throwback kind of organization... one that looks on monetary and business gains, rather than exploration and such. Now, I'm not necessarily talking about the Ferengi. I'm talking about an organization from Earth that somehow has managed to exist since the founding of the Federation, and has eventually managed to get enough resources to have a force that could rival StarFleet. But, knowing that the Earth they remembers from history back no longer exists, they have founded their own world base on another planet. They set out with their own ships.

Whereas the Federation works toward the betterment of all, this corporate entity works to make its profits, forge monetary business trade with other worlds, forms protectorates (and alliances where possible). They don't feel bound by the Prime Directive, but they're not necessarily out to corrupt or enslave worlds.

The Federation may take a dim view to this corporate competition for the trust and membership of worlds, but it's not like the Federation can really do anything about it. This organization operates outside of Federation law. The forces they have can actually contest whether or not it is "Federation" space, and the Federation may have a hard time trying to press home any legality of the Prime Directive to this competitor.

It kinda becomes a "he who has the most planets, rules the quadrant" kind of thing. Until then, there are territories. Some are Fed territory, others are the corporate force territory. The two powers might have to do some negotiating if one has to traverse the other's territory.

However, even the corporate entity respects things like the Klingon and Romulan Neutral Zones. They have no desire to start a war, and understand that neither the Klingons, nor the Romulans are likely to discriminate between StarFleet forces and Corporate forces, especially if either tries to cross the Neutral Zones.

To the Federation's surprise, the corporate controlled worlds seem to prosper about as well as Federation planets. Little, if any conflict. No starvation. No faction wars. They aren't perfect utopias, but they do alright. Every now and again, the corporate forces might have to put out a small brush fire in their own territory, but nothing has broken out into full on open warfare.

This entity could be a dramatic foil for the Federation, without having to be overly antagonistic.

There might even come a time where the two forces realize that they can defend their respective territories as joint forces should the Klingons or Romulans decide to try an invasion, or start a war.

No offense, but this show could become really dull if its just the Federation and its rival trying to convince some neutral planet to sign a trade agreement or something. We need an antagonistic power to create conflict and peril, to create high stakes scenarios. I think Star Wars prequels showed that space politics can be pretty dull if not handled well.

I think a corporate power should be more aggressive, look at all the immoral things corporations do in real life. The Federation vs. a power that is kinda bad but not really doesn't really make for exciting TV.

Well, I never claimed it was perfect.
I was just trying to riff on T'girl's idea.

I wanted to write it up the way that a Roddeberrian dogmatist would possibly want to see it.

My way, the corporate entity would be much as you would see it.... more aggressive, even militant. A true foe for the Feds.

 

[The Overlord]

Said competitor could even be (if we wanna throw a sort of twist into it) a throwback kind of organization... one that looks on monetary and business gains, rather than exploration and such. Now, I'm not necessarily talking about the Ferengi. I'm talking about an organization from Earth that somehow has managed to exist since the founding of the Federation, and has eventually managed to get enough resources to have a force that could rival StarFleet. But, knowing that the Earth they remembers from history back no longer exists, they have founded their own world base on another planet. They set out with their own ships.

Whereas the Federation works toward the betterment of all, this corporate entity works to make its profits, forge monetary business trade with other worlds, forms protectorates (and alliances where possible). They don't feel bound by the Prime Directive, but they're not necessarily out to corrupt or enslave worlds.

The Federation may take a dim view to this corporate competition for the trust and membership of worlds, but it's not like the Federation can really do anything about it. This organization operates outside of Federation law. The forces they have can actually contest whether or not it is "Federation" space, and the Federation may have a hard time trying to press home any legality of the Prime Directive to this competitor.

It kinda becomes a "he who has the most planets, rules the quadrant" kind of thing. Until then, there are territories. Some are Fed territory, others are the corporate force territory. The two powers might have to do some negotiating if one has to traverse the other's territory.

However, even the corporate entity respects things like the Klingon and Romulan Neutral Zones. They have no desire to start a war, and understand that neither the Klingons, nor the Romulans are likely to discriminate between StarFleet forces and Corporate forces, especially if either tries to cross the Neutral Zones.

To the Federation's surprise, the corporate controlled worlds seem to prosper about as well as Federation planets. Little, if any conflict. No starvation. No faction wars. They aren't perfect utopias, but they do alright. Every now and again, the corporate forces might have to put out a small brush fire in their own territory, but nothing has broken out into full on open warfare.

This entity could be a dramatic foil for the Federation, without having to be overly antagonistic.

There might even come a time where the two forces realize that they can defend their respective territories as joint forces should the Klingons or Romulans decide to try an invasion, or start a war.

No offense, but this show could become really dull if its just the Federation and its rival trying to convince some neutral planet to sign a trade agreement or something. We need an antagonistic power to create conflict and peril, to create high stakes scenarios. I think Star Wars prequels showed that space politics can be pretty dull if not handled well.

I think a corporate power should be more aggressive, look at all the immoral things corporations do in real life. The Federation vs. a power that is kinda bad but not really doesn't really make for exciting TV.

Well, I never claimed it was perfect.
I was just trying to riff on T'girl's idea.

I wanted to write it up the way that a Roddeberrian dogmatist would possibly want to see it.

My way, the corporate entity would be much as you would see it.... more aggressive, even militant. A true foe for the Feds.

Well I disagree with T'girl's idea that the villains should be mere rivals then true enemies, I want some villains who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty in order to win, some real menacing bad guys.

 

[Mareika]

My hope for the new series-- to get the Voyagercast back with all of their great characters. I know it`s a dream- it won`t be.

 

[at Quark's]

3) Have a series bible that states clearly what is allowed and not allowed. Hire people that can actually work within a set framework with rules.

I disagree on this one. I think that if there is a good story to be told, you can work to bend, and yes, even sometimes break those rules.

Which implicitly says -imho- you're still going to need those rules to exist before you can break any. Occasionally being able to bend or break rules -and if it happens, only for very good reasons!- is, I think, very different from 'any sh*t goes as long as the story of the week is entertaining enough'.

 

[martok2112]

No offense, but this show could become really dull if its just the Federation and its rival trying to convince some neutral planet to sign a trade agreement or something. We need an antagonistic power to create conflict and peril, to create high stakes scenarios. I think Star Wars prequels showed that space politics can be pretty dull if not handled well.

I think a corporate power should be more aggressive, look at all the immoral things corporations do in real life. The Federation vs. a power that is kinda bad but not really doesn't really make for exciting TV.

Well, I never claimed it was perfect.
I was just trying to riff on T'girl's idea.

I wanted to write it up the way that a Roddeberrian dogmatist would possibly want to see it.

My way, the corporate entity would be much as you would see it.... more aggressive, even militant. A true foe for the Feds.

Well I disagree with T'girl's idea that the villains should be mere rivals then true enemies, I want some villains who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty in order to win, some real menacing bad guys.

Like any good show that has conflict on occasion, a true villain is a must.

It would also be in keeping with what we've seen before in Trek, if the corporate rivals I described were indeed much more militant and villainous, and then, say, an outside force threatens the Federation and Corporate held worlds, the two forces could ally (even if temporarily) to fight off the new threat. Then after a while, some time after the threat has been dealt with , it could be business as usual.

The ally becomes a threat...again.

 

[RAMA]

If we are taking odds of what we are actually likely to see, I'd say: JJ universe: 90%, Prime 5%, something new 5%

 

[TheGoodStuff]

Posting this in Gen Trek since I make reference to other series.

If this new series can reimagine Star Trek the way that Battlestar Galactica was reimagined, I think it would be a *great* idea. NuBSG took a lot of risks, even switching around the genders and races of some of their main characters -- they got criticized for it at first, but the show ended really well with a lot of excellent reviews.

IMO the problem with Star Trek ever since TNG, possibly the TOS movie time frame as well, is that they never took major risks. Yar was the only character who died and stayed dead, for example (and even then they found ways to bring Denise Crosby back.)

Imagine TNG, for example, if Picard/Locutus had remained assimilated. TOS movies if Spock had stayed dead. DS9 if even the Dax symbiant died and there was never an Ezri. IMO the new Trek series should be open to that kind of risk.

If Picard and Spock had died and not returned you would have wrecked both shows. Killing off great characters is not how a show should run.

Why does Star Trek need to be re-imagined?

Because it got canceled?

No, Enterprise was cancelled [and even that was after 4 years]. Trek has been doing its thing successfully on TV for forty-odd years.

Don't make ST like NuBSG, because if you do it isn't ST anymore. ST is positive escapism. "Gee, it sure would be nice if the world were like this." NuBSG is negative escapism. "Boy, their lives really suck, I'm glad I'm not where they are."

Having said that, my hope is that it's marginally better than what I'd find if I turned my tv on to a random channel at a random time.

This, for me, is the fundamentally correct point.

I don't want negativity and doom in Trek. Trek is supposed to be positive and uplifting. Everything these days needs to be edgy and angsty and it is such a cliche now.

The whole point in Trek, to me, is a danger that is overcome by our enlightened, positive crew showing that ethics, morality and science can overcome.

I'm not opposed to hardship. DS9 managed to balance dark stories and themes with the prevailing Trek attitude of positivity. But I really do not want some "the Federation is wrecked, characters die every season, starvation/war/crying" type show. That is best left for other franchises I think.

 

[T'Girl]

The rival isn't a enemy, more a competitor.

Said competitor could even be (if we wanna throw a sort of twist into it) a throwback kind of organization... one that looks on monetary and business gains, rather than exploration and such.

I've thought for sometime that a alien version of the British East India company would be an interesting addition to the Trek universe.

No offense, but this show could become really dull if its just the Federation and its rival trying to convince some neutral planet to sign a trade agreement or something.

It would not be my suggestion that a rival "Federation" be the only adversary on any new show. The idea would be to see something that hadn't existed previously, a power that didn't operate by rules that the Federation and Starfleet were used to dealing with. A people who didn't view the Federation as enemy, but neither did they see the Federation as a possible friend or ally.

They would be a source of ongoing pressure.

We need an antagonistic power to create conflict and peril

Yes, we would need this too. A separate group.