Jessica Jones-- Marvel/Netflix

[Campe]

^Respectfully, your methodology for your opinions on the quality of any talent is flawed. You are basing your extremely negative opinion on some of these things on a small sample of an artist's work... And in some cases (YouTube videos), out of context from the work you're watching. You're also talking about fast forwarding through performances because of a dislike of an actress just to get to performances you do like. I'm not going to lie -- your methodology makes no sense to me. Like others have suggested, I'm totally cool with dissenting opinions but I don't get where you're coming from. But your opinion won't change.

Based on comments I've seen from you (your odd disdain for Ritter despite not seeing what most everyone here agrees is her best performance, your comments on a small sample of the showrunner's work, your apparent hate of Agent Carter, [although I'll admit I don't have an idea of why you hate that show] and your abject negativity towards the character of Bobbi on SHIELD), it makes me wonder if you, in general, have a problem with strong females, a preconceived notion how you believe females should be portrayed in the MCU or just an issue with females in general. Granted, I haven't looked all that deeply at your entire history of posts, but it is an idea someone could glean from just the surface.

Just my $0.02.

PS - Add my voice to those who would suggest you should give Ritter's run on Breaking Bad a chance. The series, at least for me, took a little bit to get going but it is far, FAR better than the little bits I have ever seen from Blacklist.

 

[Christopher]

^I don't think kirk55555 has a problem with strong females; I've seen him be just as intractably negative toward male-led shows like Beware the Batman. I can't recall ever hearing him say anything positive about any show, really.

And that's all I should say on the subject. You know a thread's gone off the rails when it becomes about the posters rather than the topic. That's when one should just let it go and move on.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Is Matt with anyone?

Luke Cage: Power Man is Jessica's Ducky for ####'s sake.

It's crazy.

Gotta wonder if they would have wound up together if he hadn't knocked her up?

 

[Reverend]

Guys, I've found the best thing to do if Kirk5 starts expressing nonsensical opinions is to simply not engage and get on with discussing other things. It's really not worth getting into it.

Is Matt with anyone?

Luke Cage: Power Man is Jessica's Ducky for ####'s sake.

It's crazy.

Gotta wonder if they would have wound up together if he hadn't knocked her up?

I wonder if they'll ever touch on the Daredevil/Black Widow connection on the show? Johansson is probably *way* to expensive to even cameo unless she *really* wants to do it for scale...or they wave a Black Widow series under their nose.

 

[Relayer1]

Kirks just taking a childish tack of 'I don't like it so it's rubbish'. He's got no basis that it'll 'be a trainwreck', but it will be to him anyway. I think Tom Cruise is an awful actor but he's been in some films I like - even Kirk's right about the cast (and he's not) the show might still work.

For the record, I rather like Agent Carer and Bobbi is one of the few good things about Agents of Shield...

 

[kirk55555]

Based on comments I've seen from you (your odd disdain for Ritter despite not seeing what most everyone here agrees is her best performance, your comments on a small sample of the showrunner's work, your apparent hate of Agent Carter, [although I'll admit I don't have an idea of why you hate that show] and your abject negativity towards the character of Bobbi on SHIELD), it makes me wonder if you, in general, have a problem with strong females, a preconceived notion how you believe females should be portrayed in the MCU or just an issue with females in general. Granted, I haven't looked all that deeply at your entire history of posts, but it is an idea someone could glean from just the surface.

Just my $0.02.

PS - Add my voice to those who would suggest you should give Ritter's run on Breaking Bad a chance. The series, at least for me, took a little bit to get going but it is far, FAR better than the little bits I have ever seen from Blacklist.

Well, you're very wrong about my opinion on women in TV shows/etc. From the MCU alone I think there are a lot of awesome female characters (like Black Widow, Agent May, Daisy Johnson, Simmons and, yes, Peggy Carter just to name a few). From non superhero stuff, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is one of my favorite TV shows, and Xena Warrior Princess was also pretty awesome (for the first three seasons at least). I actually really want more female lead superhero shows and movies. I would lose my mind (in a good way) if, for example, Marvel announced a show for someone like She-Hulk or Spider-Woman, and I still don't get why we will apparently not be getting a solo Black Widow film.

Yeah, I hate Mockingbird from AoS. She's the only recurring female character in the MCU I hate, and her gender has absolutely nothing to do with it. She's just poorly written and irritates me. That's exactly one recurring female character, on one MCU show, that I hate. With Ritter, that number would rise to two.

Also, I hate Agent Carter because its been (so far) an eight episode show where 80% of the running time is Peggy having to pretend to be a meek secretary-ish woman because every man not named Jarvis (and possibly Howard) are gigantic sexist d-bags. I loathe shows that have a main cast mostly made up of horrible people, and (accurate or not) I want to see Peggy kicking butt and, you know, not having half the conflict of the show come from a bunch of sexist idiots.

If they ever decide to make a show with Peggy Carter that isn't focused on realistically showing how horrible people were in the 50s, I'd watch it in a heart beat. As it is, I hate the show for similar reasons I can't stand stuff like Game of thrones. When the majority of the recurring characters are horrible people, I don't want to watch it. I spent the first episode of agent Carter wanting every person besides Peggy, jarvis and Howard Stark to die violent deaths ASAP. I don't get any enjoyment out of rampant sexism, regardless of its realism for the era. Watching the first episode of AC, I just got incandescent with rage for about 45 minutes, and question why Peggy didn't beat all of her "co-workers" to a pulp in the first 10 minutes. So, basically, I like Peggy Carter a lot, I just loathe the theme/tone of the show.

^I don't think kirk55555 has a problem with strong females; I've seen him be just as intractably negative toward male-led shows like Beware the Batman. I can't recall ever hearing him say anything positive about any show, really.

Oh yeah, I just hate everything. Except for the threads I had on Trekbbs where I gave a lot of love to Babylon 5 and modern Doctor Who, or my enjoyment of most of the first three seasons of Xena, or when I've praised the old DC Animated shows, or all the other times I've posted about shows I like.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Shit man, pick up a news paper.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_5KgpN38hM[/yt]

 

[Hugo Rune]

So, yeah, moving on...

I just started re-reading the main 24-issue run by Bendis that this looks like it might draw most of its inspiration from.

Firstly, Gaydos and Hollingsworth draw/colour JJ in a very fatigued, drab way: mute colouring, unkempt clothing, and with a general air of "man, I need a rest" in her expressions. When Ritter was first cast I was a little shocked as my own interpretation was of JJ being in her late 30's, having "been there, done that" for some time, but the press releases clearly are painting a character as one who was only in the superhero group for a short while before "the incident" forced her back into the real world. So seeing a younger and fresher JJ still hasn't quite rung true for me. She seems highly cynical, but so far more in a "I'm fed up with this" bent, rather than having been exhausted by her misadventures. Still, 2.5 minutes of footage, mostly voice-over, isn't going to let me write her off just yet.

Secondly, it had been so long since I last read it that I had forgot the jumping off point of the comic - The video tape. Which brings two questions... they are clearly playing up the Killgrave angle as the main story thrust (back and progressing story), yet there is not enough material for 13 hours of TV. Daredevil's main issue for me was a lack of material to meet its 13 episode format. So what other elements are they going to play through JJ to open up her world? Then there is the fact that the video tape is associated with a Marvel character that appears to be "out in the open" in the MCU and hence it would not be able to drive the paranoiac thrust that the comic employs to begin with. Yet, still, it could mildly tie into the grander plans of Civil War re: superhero identity/registration, if they decide to use another superhero with a secret identity.

Finally, nailing her PTSD is going to be key to cementing this show for me. Even in the first few pages of the comic (Note: love that the opening images in the trailer are straight out of the first page of the book - crash through the door window), JJ is in a desperately dark place, where she thinks feeling anything, even shame and pain, is better than nothing. Finding a balance where she is still relatable will be tricky and even Bendis slipped across the line from time to time with his "character banter patter" - flippant, cute comments trying to cut across the grimness. sometimes working to lift the moment, other times undercutting it slightly.

There is no doubt, this will be a fascinating show, success or not, and I eagerly await 20/11/15. Melissa Rosenberg isn't really a concern as the show-runner, given Bendis has certified on multiple occasions that she "gets it" when it comes to JJ and she has been trying to get this up and off the ground for some time now. To add weight to this the reactions of the Pilot aired recently appear to confirm that it is one of Netflix's finest pilots full stop.

As this is her first time as a show runner where she has built it from the ground up, I'm pretty much willing to forget her "back catalogue" for now given so many other show runners have had to "play to the fiddle" of other creators as they work to their whims as junior writers/producers. And yet, still, her last big gig was as a major producer (including EP) for Dexter, Seasons 1-4, She left after Season 4, for which she was the Head Writer, and the season many people deem to be one of, if not THE best. Writing Twilight is a paying gig, on the behest of a Studio. I'd love to know what decisions, if any, she was able to make independent of the Studio for those four films.

Look at Bryan Fuller, hailed as a saviour of Modern TV. Barring a few exceptions, look at his pre-Showrunner catalogue - a poor Carrie TV movie and a slew of pretty damned average-to-dire Voyager episodes. Dig deep and you can see his talent and humour (Living Witness / Chaotica / Oblivion) yet his real voice was clearly subsumed by the wants of the Network/Berman/Braga. When it was advertised that he had created a TV show about Grim Reapers, I wasn't too thrilled.

Nice to be disappointed in my own preconceptions from time to time.

Very few shows are like. say, The X-Files where each writers singular voice was championed by its Showrunner (Chris Carter). Vince Gilligan, Tim Minear, Morgan/Wong, Howard Gordon - all their current writing styles are quite apparent throughout their episodes on that show. They are more refined now, of course, as they got more experienced. Sadly, most TV shows are not like The X-Files, and the need for a more homogenous style over a 13-22 episode run, means that many writers "voices" can be lost in the process, or tempered/modified to meet the signature tone of the show or showrunner.

Just because a person does not like The OC, Birds of Prey, Party of Five, does not mean they will also dislike JJ


Hugo - done now

 

[Christopher]

When Ritter was first cast I was a little shocked as my own interpretation was of JJ being in her late 30's, having "been there, done that" for some time, but the press releases clearly are painting a character as one who was only in the superhero group for a short while before "the incident" forced her back into the real world. So seeing a younger and fresher JJ still hasn't quite rung true for me.

Krysten Ritter is 33. Not that much younger. (She's almost exactly a year older than Daredevil's Charlie Cox, in fact. Her birthday's a day after his.)

 

[Turtletrekker]

In the comics, Jessica is the same age as Peter Parker. They went to the same school in the same grade.

 

[Reverend]

^All that means is she was a teenager in the early 60's. Marvel's timescale and the ages of their long standing characters has always been a bit screwy in a moving target kind of way.

That said, from the content of 'Alias' I had also pegged Jessica Jones as being a little more world weary on the late 30's, early 40's end of things. Not that it's essential by any means, as it really depends on how well Ritter sells it.

My concern as I said before is that they're making her look a bit too pretty and made up to be credible as a hard drinking, chain-smoking P.I. who's down on her luck and holding onto the last shred of self respect by her fingernails. Again though, it's more a cosmetic thing than anything substantial and the finished product may very well render it moot.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I never got the impression of late 30s. Maybe not Peter's eternal 20s he's been in since he graduated College, but certainly late 20s, maybe early 30s. The fact that she becomes a new mother helped reinforce that. She's weary of the world, but that's because she's been through a meat grinder. Not because she's 40.

 

[Nerys Myk]

^All that means is she was a teenager in the early 60's. Marvel's timescale and the ages of their long standing characters has always been a bit screwy in a moving target kind of way.

Your second statement disproves the first. All it actually means is she and Parker were teenagers at the same time. When that was changes, as the year of publication moves forward. I doubt Parker and Jones were written as being in their mid 50s in 2001.

 

[Christopher]

All it actually means is she and Parker were teenagers at the same time. When that was changes, as the year of publication moves forward. I doubt Parker and Jones were written as being in their mid 50s in 2001.

Right. These days, when we get flashbacks to Spidey's origin, they're assuming it happened in the era of mobile phones and social networks. Peter is perpetually in his mid- to late 20s, not far beyond college age. Although at the time Alias was written, I think Peter was generally being written as though he had more experience under his belt, so perhaps it was implictly assumed that he'd reached his early 30s. Brand New Day seemed to de-age him somewhat in the way he was written, even though he was supposedly the same age as before.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

^All that means is she was a teenager in the early 60's. Marvel's timescale and the ages of their long standing characters has always been a bit screwy in a moving target kind of way.

Your second statement disproves the first. All it actually means is she and Parker were teenagers at the same time. When that was changes, as the year of publication moves forward. I doubt Parker and Jones were written as being in their mid 50s in 2001.

In fairness, that's not entirely true. Characters don't age at uniform rates in the Marvel universe. Kitty Pryde ages faster than Colossus, for example (to make their relationship less creepy). On the other hand, people like Leech or the Fantastic Four kids generally don't age.

That being said, Jessica Jones wasn't introduced with Peter Parker in the silver age. It was established in the early 2000s that she was a classmate with Peter Parker. That means, at the time Alias was written, she was established as being the same age as Parker. There's no issues of selective aging there.

 

[JD]

My concern as I said before is that they're making her look a bit too pretty and made up to be credible as a hard drinking, chain-smoking P.I. who's down on her luck and holding onto the last shred of self respect by her fingernails. Again though, it's more a cosmetic thing than anything substantial and the finished product may very well render it moot.

I think that probably just comes from her being the lead character. Leads, especially women, tend to be that way no matter the subject matter, and characters.

 

[Nerys Myk]

^All that means is she was a teenager in the early 60's. Marvel's timescale and the ages of their long standing characters has always been a bit screwy in a moving target kind of way.

Your second statement disproves the first. All it actually means is she and Parker were teenagers at the same time. When that was changes, as the year of publication moves forward. I doubt Parker and Jones were written as being in their mid 50s in 2001.

In fairness, that's not entirely true. Characters don't age at uniform rates in the Marvel universe. Kitty Pryde ages faster than Colossus, for example (to make their relationship less creepy). On the other hand, people like Leech or the Fantastic Four kids generally don't age.

That being said, Jessica Jones wasn't introduced with Peter Parker in the silver age. It was established in the early 2000s that she was a classmate with Peter Parker. That means, at the time Alias was written, she was established as being the same age as Parker. There's no issues of selective aging there.

True. But very few characters age at a realistic rate. I've no idea how old Kitty is these days. But she's not in her 40s.

Was Peter that much older than Kitty? I recall she was in her early teens when she joined. I think Peter was the youngest of the All New All Different group, maybe in his teens as well.

 

[Turtletrekker]

When Kitty joined the X-Men, Peter was 17 and Kitty was 13 1/2.

 

[JD]

I thought I read somewhere that Marvel's characters age 1 year for every 4 real years.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I though I read somewhere that Marvel's characters aged 1 year for every 4 real years.

Peter Parker's been around since 1962, so that would make him 32?