My thoughts on Voyager and Trek Verse

[Sinny]

So far Voyager is the only Star Trek series I've took a liking to enough to sit down and watch the series. From the get go I loved the concept of Voyager being alone in the Delta Quadrant, it makes for a more intimate experience, imo.

The first 3 seasons are okay, but for me, the show drastically improves post 7 of 9.

I found Kes and Nelix to be rather boring characters, Kes I rather disliked toward her exit, and Nelix improves over time.

The reason why I enjoyed the series so much more post 7 of 9 is because there is *finally* a decent character arc to experience... its actually amazing how little character arcs were utilised throughout the whole show, there were a few, but the majority were weak.

Arcs I enjoyed are limited to 7, the Doc, Naomi Wildman, Tom and Belana.

Character arcs which were under utilised include Captain Jane way, Tuvoc, Nelix, Icheb.

None existent character arcs: Chakotay, Kim... rest of the crew.

It would have been nice for Janeway to finally figure out how to balance work and her love life. Chakotay was rather boring and robotic throughout the whole series, same for Harry Kim, besides being a bit stuck in a man's body, what's his story??

......

Anyway, Voyager aside I do enjoy some of the Generations episodes.. I attempted a series sit down a few months ago, but my god, I found myself falling asleep through quite a lot of episodes, and gave up on the series.

I also tried watching deep space nine, but the cast and characters dont really engage my interest, and so that's has never got off the ground me.

I tried Enterprise, but I really didn't like the cast and environment, im not entirely sure why..

Does anyone have any reviews on the other series, which might hopefully spark my interest in them again?

 

[Curios_Gelatin]

Yes, I feel like they could have done a lot more with Kes—and I wish they had because I quite liked her— but it seems they just sort of... gave up on her character after a while.

I would really suggest just clearing a few hours one day and getting through a bunch of DS9 episodes.

I had so much trouble getting into that series. I must have tried to watch the pilot at least 3 times without ever getting through it.
Perhaps its because the first few episodes are very much setting up the characters and setting— it's a little dry on the exciting plot side—but once you get into it I would say it's very much like Voyager in the sense that you feel more intimate with the characters and the setting, because the Starfleet crew is very much alone among two races that don't want to be anywhere near the Federation.
It becomes, like Voyager, very heavily focused on characters and their arcs.


And yes I'm afraid if you aren't too fond of long scenes spent talking and philosophizing, as well as fairly weak character arcs(if they can be called that) TNG isn't for you. I personally love it because I think Picard is a fascinating Starfleet captain- not a soldier but a scholar.

I haven't watched Enterprise so no opinion to give there.

And if you want some more light-hearted early sci-fi fun, The Original Series is great! Don't expect it to be as technobabbly as the series' that came after it. TOS is very much psuedo-science most of the time (Things like telepathy and mind control, ESP etc.)

 

[Tracy Trek]

Did anyone else sometimes feel like the other character's development was pushed to the side so more focus could be put on Seven and on the Dr?

 

[hux]

same for Harry Kim, besides being a bit stuck in a man's body, what's his story??

It later transpired that Kim was pining for a man known only as big Gary. This is why he so desperately wanted to get home.

Kes was background wallpaper.

 

[Sinny]

Yes, I feel like they could have done a lot more with Kes—and I wish they had because I quite liked her— but it seems they just sort of... gave up on her character after a while.

I would really suggest just clearing a few hours one day and getting through a bunch of DS9 episodes.

I had so much trouble getting into that series. I must have tried to watch the pilot at least 3 times without ever getting through it.
Perhaps its because the first few episodes are very much setting up the characters and setting— it's a little dry on the exciting plot side—but once you get into it I would say it's very much like Voyager in the sense that you feel more intimate with the characters and the setting, because the Starfleet crew is very much alone among two races that don't want to be anywhere near the Federation.
It becomes, like Voyager, very heavily focused on characters and their arcs.


And yes I'm afraid if you aren't too fond of long scenes spent talking and philosophizing, as well as fairly weak character arcs(if they can be called that) TNG isn't for you. I personally love it because I think Picard is a fascinating Starfleet captain- not a soldier but a scholar.

I haven't watched Enterprise so no opinion to give there.

And if you want some more light-hearted early sci-fi fun, The Original Series is great! Don't expect it to be as technobabbly as the series' that came after it. TOS is very much psuedo-science most of the time (Things like telepathy and mind control, ESP etc.)

Thanks for that, Yea love Piccard, and Whoopie Goldberg.

I'll try and give DS9 another go.

I love pseudo science, big geek me haha.

 

[Sinny]

Did anyone else sometimes feel like the other character's development was pushed to the side so more focus could be put on Seven and on the Dr?

In 7 whole years. There was plenty of room for both.

 

[stardream]

I always tell people to hang in there with DS9. It does get better!

 

[Lynx]

Did anyone else sometimes feel like the other character's development was pushed to the side so more focus could be put on Seven and on the Dr?

No!

On the contrary, it looked like Kes would become a more important character in the series.

Look at season 3 where Kes had many episodes where she was the main character or a very important character.

We had episodes like "Warlord", "Darkling", Before And After, "The Swarm" and "Scorpion#1" where Kes was either the main character or a very important character.

Compare that to Kim who had one episode (Favorite Son) and Neelix who had one episode (Fair Trade) and a prominent character in one (Rise).

There were no signs at all that Kes was going to be dumped, on the contrary it was stated that she wanted to remain on the ship in "Darkling" where she did have the opportunity to leave with Zahir who she fancied but she decided to stay.

hooks wrote:

Kes was background wallpaper.

No, she was definitely more than that!

 

[Makarov]

I'm glad 7 of 9 saved the show for a lot of people but in my rewatch I was surprised how much I liked the earlier seasons. For me the Doctor is the major arc of Voyager. Kes had about as much potential as Chakotay they both just needed some more stories written for them.

I'd say someone that likes 7 of 9 might also enjoy the movie First Contact if not all the borg episodes from TNG.

 

[stardream]

Re-watching the show now with my husband I'm finding that Seasons 1-3 and seasons 4-7 are almost different shows. Something more changed than just Seven of Nine coming on board...at least to me. I can see the change around the middle of Season 3 but thing thing is I'm not really sure what it is that has changed. The writing? The lighting? The emphasis on the crew being a 'family'? Leaving the Kazon behind?

I like both eras of the show equally well although I think Season 5 will always be my favorite.

 

[Lynx]

Re-watching the show now with my husband I'm finding that Seasons 1-3 and seasons 4-7 are almost different shows. Something more changed than just Seven of Nine coming on board...at least to me. I can see the change around the middle of Season 3 but thing thing is I'm not really sure what it is that has changed. The writing? The lighting? The emphasis on the crew being a 'family'? Leaving the Kazon behind?

I like both eras of the show equally well although I think Season 5 will always be my favorite.

It was actually two shows:
Star Trek Voyager
and
Star Trek Seven Of Nine
The last show included some Voyager characters as extras.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Did anyone else sometimes feel like the other character's development was pushed to the side so more focus could be put on Seven and on the Dr?

That was because the Doctor, Seven, (and Janeway) were the most popular characters on the show. Popularity always gets the spotlight.

 

[Curios_Gelatin]

Re-watching the show now with my husband I'm finding that Seasons 1-3 and seasons 4-7 are almost different shows. Something more changed than just Seven of Nine coming on board...at least to me. I can see the change around the middle of Season 3 but thing thing is I'm not really sure what it is that has changed. The writing? The lighting? The emphasis on the crew being a 'family'? Leaving the Kazon behind?

I like both eras of the show equally well although I think Season 5 will always be my favorite.

It was actually two shows:
Star Trek Voyager
and
Star Trek Seven Of Nine
The last show included some Voyager characters as extras.

Pff, haha.It is true, I'm just getting to he 5th season myself and it feels like they're becoming very dependent on Seven's Borg components to solve every problem they come across. Engineering problem? Nanoprobes. Need to change how some tech works? Nanoprobes. Death? Nanoprobes.

The only thing I don't like about her is more of a writing flaw. She keeps referring to herself as Borg even when she's regained her humanity.
Even Hugh in TNG adapted to individuality pretty quickly, and he still had most of his Borg gear attached.

Getting back on topic though, someone mentioned Kes? Yes I wish she'd had a bigger role during her time. The writers just seemed to forget about her for episodes at a time!

 

[stardream]

Re-watching the show now with my husband I'm finding that Seasons 1-3 and seasons 4-7 are almost different shows. Something more changed than just Seven of Nine coming on board...at least to me. I can see the change around the middle of Season 3 but thing thing is I'm not really sure what it is that has changed. The writing? The lighting? The emphasis on the crew being a 'family'? Leaving the Kazon behind?

I like both eras of the show equally well although I think Season 5 will always be my favorite.

It was actually two shows:
Star Trek Voyager
and
Star Trek Seven Of Nine
The last show included some Voyager characters as extras.

The thing is I noticed a difference BEFORE Seven joined. Maybe it was just me.....

 

[Taylirious]

I enjoyed S1-3 on rewatch but I do prefer Star Trek Seven Of Nine more.

 

[T'Girl]

TOS is very much psuedo-science most of the time (Things like telepathy and ...)

TOS had Spock who was a telepath, thankfully TNG got rid of that and replaced it with Troi who was empathic.

 

[Sinny]

Re-watching the show now with my husband I'm finding that Seasons 1-3 and seasons 4-7 are almost different shows. Something more changed than just Seven of Nine coming on board...at least to me. I can see the change around the middle of Season 3 but thing thing is I'm not really sure what it is that has changed. The writing? The lighting? The emphasis on the crew being a 'family'? Leaving the Kazon behind?

I like both eras of the show equally well although I think Season 5 will always be my favorite.

It was actually two shows:
Star Trek Voyager
and
Star Trek Seven Of Nine
The last show included some Voyager characters as extras.

Pff, haha.It is true, I'm just getting to he 5th season myself and it feels like they're becoming very dependent on Seven's Borg components to solve every problem they come across. Engineering problem? Nanoprobes. Need to change how some tech works? Nanoprobes. Death? Nanoprobes.

The only thing I don't like about her is more of a writing flaw. She keeps referring to herself as Borg even when she's regained her humanity.
Even Hugh in TNG adapted to individuality pretty quickly, and he still had most of his Borg gear attached.

Getting back on topic though, someone mentioned Kes? Yes I wish she'd had a bigger role during her time. The writers just seemed to forget about her for episodes at a time!

What you attribute to a writing flaw, I actually thought was good writing. I felt that 7 was and always will be conflicted between the Borg and humanity. The Borg is rational, whilst humanity is irrational. . With all its pleasures in tow.

 

[at Quark's]

The reason why I enjoyed the series so much more post 7 of 9 is because there is *finally* a decent character arc to experience... its actually amazing how little character arcs were utilised throughout the whole show, there were a few, but the majority were weak.

I suppose it depends on your perspective.

I agree that in itself, the 7 of 9 character arc is decent. However, VOY was the third series I watched. When I saw that the 7 of 9 character started to receive many plots in which 'as essentially an alien, she discovers what it means to be human', to me it felt like I had seen it several (and too many) times before, only in different circumstances (Data, Odo, even the EMH itself, though none of these three are actually human themselves, and you could even make a case for aliens such as Worf and Spock), even though such a development of the character is logical in itself .

Now, I think that 'discovering what it means to be human' is one of the quintessential points of trek, and when done well, it will always remain fresh. I think that in a sense all trek characters do that.

But this particular angle (seeing humanity through the eyes of an outsider, whether because of coming from an alien culture, or the character him/herself is fundamentally different (android, computer program)) can get old, when it feels too much as a rehash from stuff seen before. Moreover, many 7 episodes felt a bit formulaic to me, like this:

* Seven and the captain have a scene at the beginning, touching on subject 'x'. Seven thinks it's flawed and inefficient.
* The main plot develops, and Seven and the captain argue on opposing sides because the main plot involves 'x', too .
* Seven gets into trouble, and at some point has to admit that perhaps there is a grain of truth in Janeway's statement regarding 'x'- or at least that she should defer judgement for now
* The main plot is resolved, we have a nice final scene and Seven is a little wiser about 'x'.

(Instead of Janeway, for some episodes it may read 'the EMH'.)

Of course, I do exaggerate here (and sure, there's plenty of exceptions), but many seven-centered episodes felt a bit like that to me.

I'm sure you can argue whether that is actually true or not, but the case simply is that to me it felt like it was, and at the end of the day, that's all that really matters (to me).

So, for me, the 7 of 9 character didn't stand out enough on itself, wasn't sufficiently different to make her worth the time. But, had I seen VOY as my first series, I probably would have felt very differently about her.

 

[stardream]

I suppose it depends on your perspective.

I agree that in itself, the 7 of 9 character arc is decent. However, VOY was the third series I watched. When I saw that the 7 of 9 character started to receive many plots in which 'as essentially an alien, she discovers what it means to be human', to me it felt like I had seen it several (and too many) times before, only in different circumstances (Data, Odo, even the EMH itself, though none of these three are actually human themselves, and you could even make a case for aliens such as Worf and Spock), even though such a development of the character is logical in itself .

Now, I think that 'discovering what it means to be human' is one of the quintessential points of trek, and when done well, it will always remain fresh. I think that in a sense all trek characters do that.

But this particular angle (seeing humanity through the eyes of an outsider, whether because of coming from an alien culture, or the character him/herself is fundamentally different (android, computer program)) can get old, when it feels too much as a rehash from stuff seen before. Moreover, many 7 episodes felt a bit formulaic to me, like this:

* Seven and the captain have a scene at the beginning, touching on subject 'x'. Seven thinks it's flawed and inefficient.
* The main plot develops, and Seven and the captain argue on opposing sides because the main plot involves 'x', too .
* Seven gets into trouble, and at some point has to admit that perhaps there is a grain of truth in Janeway's statement regarding 'x'- or at least that she should defer judgement for now
* The main plot is resolved, we have a nice final scene and Seven is a little wiser about 'x'.

(Instead of Janeway, for some episodes it may read 'the EMH'.)

Of course, I do exaggerate here (and sure, there's plenty of exceptions), but many seven-centered episodes felt a bit like that to me.

I'm sure you can argue whether that is actually true or not, but the case simply is that to me it felt like it was, and at the end of the day, that's all that really matters (to me).

I can understand this. I felt pretty much the same about B'Elanna's episodes. I liked the character when she is a supporting character or in an ensemble episode and think Dawson is a good actor but find myself skipping over most of the her centric episodes on rewatch. I felt myself thinking "Hasn't that woman come to terms with her childhood/Klingon heritage/ whatever yet?

And like you that may not be the case at all...but that's how it comes across to me.

 

[Sinny]

The reason why I enjoyed the series so much more post 7 of 9 is because there is *finally* a decent character arc to experience... its actually amazing how little character arcs were utilised throughout the whole show, there were a few, but the majority were weak.

I suppose it depends on your perspective.

I agree that in itself, the 7 of 9 character arc is decent. However, VOY was the third series I watched. When I saw that the 7 of 9 character started to receive many plots in which 'as essentially an alien, she discovers what it means to be human', to me it felt like I had seen it several (and too many) times before, only in different circumstances (Data, Odo, even the EMH itself, though none of these three are actually human themselves, and you could even make a case for aliens such as Worf and Spock), even though such a development of the character is logical in itself .

Now, I think that 'discovering what it means to be human' is one of the quintessential points of trek, and when done well, it will always remain fresh. I think that in a sense all trek characters do that.

But this particular angle (seeing humanity through the eyes of an outsider, whether because of coming from an alien culture, or the character him/herself is fundamentally different (android, computer program)) can get old, when it feels too much as a rehash from stuff seen before. Moreover, many 7 episodes felt a bit formulaic to me, like this:

* Seven and the captain have a scene at the beginning, touching on subject 'x'. Seven thinks it's flawed and inefficient.
* The main plot develops, and Seven and the captain argue on opposing sides because the main plot involves 'x', too .
* Seven gets into trouble, and at some point has to admit that perhaps there is a grain of truth in Janeway's statement regarding 'x'- or at least that she should defer judgement for now
* The main plot is resolved, we have a nice final scene and Seven is a little wiser about 'x'.

(Instead of Janeway, for some episodes it may read 'the EMH'.)

Of course, I do exaggerate here (and sure, there's plenty of exceptions), but many seven-centered episodes felt a bit like that to me.

I'm sure you can argue whether that is actually true or not, but the case simply is that to me it felt like it was, and at the end of the day, that's all that really matters (to me).

So, for me, the 7 of 9 character didn't stand out enough on itself, wasn't sufficiently different to make her worth the time. But, had I seen VOY as my first series, I probably would have felt very differently about her.

I probably would agree with you if VOY hadn't been my first too.
But I must say that out of all of the Alien species, or AI's, 7 would probably still be my favorite, in comparison to say Data. There are distinct differences in the circumstances, such as the fact that Data almost idolises humanity, and the Vulcans do experience emotions, 7 on the other hand, doesn't idolise humanity, and even from her human perspective she still sees and appreciates the transcendence of being Borg. If the crew on voyager suddenly decided they would be open to joining the collective, I have a feeling that 7 wouldn't mind complying with them. After all, she views the voyager crew as her collective, not the whole of humanity.

Her character still has a lot of room for development imo.
The whole of the above is not well articulated, I hope you can understand my meaning.

Bearing in mind I haven't read the books yet. The end of the series leaves a lot for interpretation, and I'm all for some plot twists haha.