War Minister Speculation (SPOILERS)

[The Wormhole]

So in Before the Flood upon learning the TARDIS has arrived in 1980, O'Donnell comments about it before being several things, like Harold Saxon and someone known as the War Minister which based on the Doctor's reaction is something waiting to come, likely later on this season.

You should all be warned right now, the stuff I'm about to discuss contains spoilers for next week's episode and the one after that. I'm not spoiler coding anything since this thread is clearly labeled "SPOILERS." If you don't want anything spoiled, stop reading and leave the thread.

Now, this has me thinking. Next week we are going to be introduced to the character Ashildr, played by Maisie Williams. Ashildr is Norse for "Battle God" which doesn't take too much twisting to turn into War Minister. The words war and battle are clearly related, and the words god and minister can be as well. And the recently released blurb for the upcoming Ashildr centred novel indicates she might end up some sort of ageless immortal, perhaps similar to Captain Jack, making it easy for her to end up in modern times.

So, thoughts? I suppose it's possible it's possible I'm over thinking and over analyzing and this War Minister is just the return of the War Chief, as possible prelude to Gallifrey's return, but I doubt it.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I'm thinking the way the show has worked in the past that if something is made of the reference that it would be at the end of the season.

 

[Lonemagpie]

It'll be something to with Davros, Missy, and/or Hybrids.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Based on the order in which O'Donnell listed the historical events or people, I speculate the War Minister is a historical figure between the Noughts (Harold Saxon) and late 2040s (the bat coming out of the Moon). Which episodes for this series are set in this time period?

 

[Mr Soak]

The UNIT/Zygon episodes. After all, it has to be knowable by UNIT.

 

[Guy Gardener]

UNIT must be under orders from the Doctor not to spoil the Doctor.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

UNIT must be under orders from the Doctor not to spoil the Doctor.

That's the only way I can now make sense of "The Power of Three," which is set in the near future. The Doctor must've told Kate Stewart that he's not going to meet her for the first time, from his perspective, until such-and-such a date, so when she meets him at the Ponds' house she should act like she doesn't know him.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

UNIT must be under orders from the Doctor not to spoil the Doctor.

That's the only way I can now make sense of "The Power of Three," which is set in the near future. The Doctor must've told Kate Stewart that he's not going to meet her for the first time, from his perspective, until such-and-such a date, so when she meets him at the Ponds' house she should act like she doesn't know him.

I thought all events post-Amy are simply set after 2013? Just like the RTD seasons didn't ignore the 1-year gap from Aliens in London.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I thought all events post-Amy are simply set after 2013? Just like the RTD seasons didn't ignore the 1-year gap from Aliens in London.

I don't believe that Clara is intended to be from 2020-ish. And I think "The Day of the Doctor" was meant to happen in 2013.

 

[The Wormhole]

The damnedest thing with the post-2013 theory is that it actually works until Dark Water/Death in Heaven. Okay, yes, the modern-day episodes season 7.2 take place in 2013, I think this is even supported on screen. Then we can assume Day of the Doctor takes place 2016, only a handful of months after Power of Three. And, though still far too fast, it's a bit easier to believe Clara could be a teacher three years after season 7.2 than just later that year. Hell, it even lines up perfectly in Deep Breath where we learn she's 27, exactly three years older than her age in season 7.2 (24, according to the ages listed in her book). But no, DW/DiH had to go and ruin all this by saying Clara was born in 1986, thereby destroying this house of cards completely.

I know, Doctor Who has never been known for its consistency with dates, most infamously with UNIT dating, and even other episodes in RTD's era seemed to forget about the one year later thing. Not to mention, I don't think Torchwood or SJA ever took that into account, making for some inconsistencies when they did mention Doctor Who stuff. So it was pretty inevitable Power of Three's setting would eventually be contradicted. But they did such a good job maintaining the consistency and it was all thrown away just so Clara could be born in the same year as Jenna Coleman.

Though, I have always wondered what the point was to leapfrogging through the years in the latter day Pond stories anyway. Even taking into account part of the theme in season 7.1 involved them getting older and moving on in life, was it really necessary to jump ahead a point four years in the future to when those episodes aired?

 

[TommyR01D]

The UK had a War Office preceding the current Ministry of Defence. There were therefore several dozen politicians from the 1660s to the 1960s who were "Secretary at War", "Secretary at State for War" or "Secretary of State for War and the Colonies". They also would have had corresponding parliamentary under-secretaries. Any of them could be generically called a War Minister.

Perhaps the reference is to a near future were the old name is restored (although I can't think why).

Also, Harold Saxon was mentioned as being Minister of Defence around 2007 (ordering the destruction of the Racnoss webstar and designing the Valiant).

 

[StCoop]

War Chief... War Lord... Minister Of War.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Well. Clearly, the Rani is coming back.

 

[JoeZhang]

And, though still far too fast, it's a bit easier to believe Clara could be a teacher three years after season 7.2 than just later that year.

Oh that is perfectly easy to believe, due to deregulation you can employ unqualified staff as teachers in the UK.

Also I thought the Bells of St John had an on-screen caption of 2013?

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

Here's an idea for a fanfic: An Alt/splintered version of the War Doctor shows up on Earth, desperate to make humans into more Time Lord soldiers for the war. The War Doctor would then be 'The War Minister' and he'd be a more cynical and vengeful villain. You'd have to Timey/Wimey some stuff to make it work, with the Time Lock and All, but I bet it could be a rousing two parter.

 

[Skellington]

So in Before the Flood upon learning the TARDIS has arrived in 1980, O'Donnell comments about it before being several things, like Harold Saxon and someone known as the War Minister which based on the Doctor's reaction is something waiting to come, likely later on this season.

Harold Saxon was 30-odd years in the future, though, so the War Minister could easily be another decade or two forward. It could easily just be the writer throwing in a semi-random reference for fun. I'm still waiting to see the terrible Zodin.

It'll be something to with Davros, Missy, and/or Hybrids.

I'll be entirely unsurprised if a ten-year-old kid appears towards the end of the season and turns out to be the spawn of Davros and Missy.

Though, I have always wondered what the point was to leapfrogging through the years in the latter day Pond stories anyway. Even taking into account part of the theme in season 7.1 involved them getting older and moving on in life, was it really necessary to jump ahead a point four years in the future to when those episodes aired?

I think The Power Of Three was by the same writer as the Silurian two-parter from season 5. That was set in 2020 and had a future Amy and Rory watching from afar, so maybe the idea with the time jump(s) in season 7 was to close the circle.

Here's an idea for a fanfic: An Alt/splintered version of the War Doctor shows up on Earth, desperate to make humans into more Time Lord soldiers for the war. The War Doctor would then be 'The War Minister' and he'd be a more cynical and vengeful villain. You'd have to Timey/Wimey some stuff to make it work, with the Time Lock and All, but I bet it could be a rousing two parter.

The War Minister sounds like a great name for John Hurt 's character.

 

[The Wormhole]

Well, now that the episode has aired and it is public knowledge Ashildr is effectively immortal, I maintain my theory she is the War Minister. She presumably can live to modern times, or whatever point between 1980 and 2119 that this Minister of War is supposed to be from.

 

[Starkers]

It would make sense.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Sinve the word Ashildr means "battle goddess" it'd make sense for her to be the War Minister (especially since the lake base last time had a big mural of a giant eel/sea-serpent...)

 

[Starkers]

I suppose the next question is whether the War Minister is a villain or not? It would make sense that they were, especially if it is Ashildr, ripples of time becoming a tsunami, but then again it might not be that straight forward.