They're in there. You just have to look hard enough. And if not we can always fix it in post.
Star Trek: Sol 4
- Thread starter Autistoid
- Start date
They're in there. You just have to look hard enough. And if not we can always fix it in post.
Me too... my bad.
Agreed. There is a moral dilemma regarding potential damage to the existing ecosystem, no matter how quaint. That screams classic Trek to me.
Make no mistake, this would be a DS9: Enterprise. I think limiting it to just Mars would quickly run out of gas. I also agree with other posters: a Martian story is at best a Trek footnote. Some great episodes could be found there, but it couldn't sustain a whole series.
Says the person who posts in this subform with absoluetly no interest in teh actual topic at hand.
Your only interest is a rehash of TOS which will never get maid.
That is where you are wrong. But I haven't seen any ideas here that would be better than rehashing TOS.
Though my first preference is to reboot TOS. We've had six hundred episodes of other ships and other crews and none have surpassed the magic of TOS.
Some basics ideas.
The 3 Kings
Ambassodor Tshavan
A romulan spy acting as a program developer with starfleet. He specializes in developing training programs to train federation officers for survival training situations. Introduced as a sleeper spy, with the uncharacteristic vulcan trait of lying and having weak ethics. Routinely involved in sabatoge as part of Tal Shiar activities, while also showing contempt for both the federation and the romulan star empire. However clearly capable of evil, does time and time again to provide pragmatic life saving advice.
Subcommander Polikruk
An andorian sciencetist who has advanced understandings of communications devices. Involved in developing listening post devices, as well as improving star fleets ability to detect cloak shisp and communications. An alarmist and incredibly paranoid. Shown time and time again to react to red herrings, however her anxious demeanor and paranoia prooves to be a great benefit to federation planners.
Lusan of betazed. Initially thought of as a token advisor as a starfleet program developer. In addition to the standard betazoid traits of being able to read the thoughts of others, this betazoid has an uncanny ability to predict the behavior of people in high stress situations. As the series progresses turns out to be a crucial asset to resolving issues such as hostage negotiations, crew mutinies etc.
The developers
Dr Chan
A strucutral engineer who is actively involved in the development of high pressure space vessels. With the hope of giving the federation a leg up in the exploration and settlement of Gas Giants. As a chinese national has a large amount of support within east asian. However his techonolgy is experimental and is only given a time limited window to proove the usefulness of his technologies. As a result the many gasious atmospheres of sol are being choosen as demostration grounds of this techonology.
Colonel Behcet
A veteran of the Romulan war, who is actively involved in making the federation a more interventionist power. During his time in teh war he witnessed a mass of destruction that has caused him an advanced form of PTS. Having he himself being severly damage in conflict to survive only due to genetic engineering of the tholians. As a result of his genetic engineering, and apparent PTS, has detractors from both khan fearing humans, and aliens who see his pts as proof that humans are too frail emotionally for the harshness of space. Having a character that is much the same as picards after being deassimiliated by the borg. Incredibly responsible and empathetic, however deeply tormented by his experiences.
Mayor of Mangala Colony.
A politician who desires for the development of terraforming technologies. Both for the prestige Mangala Colony and because he views it as a necessity to keep mars relevant in a political sphere where mars is being sceen as just another dust bowl. A real playboy of the group who although technically married has a very active love life. Although an opportunist does show that he has a strong sense of loyalty to his allies.
Good God, why would we ever want a reboot of TOS? Because Into Darkness was such an improvement on TWoK?
You're obviously a Trek Fundamentalist, which is a fine thing to be. But you've got to realize that any rehash or reboot of TOS would never have the "magic" of the one you remember, right?
The ones that stand out to me are:
Ambassodor Tshavan
Colonel Behcet
Mayor of Mangala Colony
It's your story so you can do whatever you want. Ambassodor Tshavan presents me with two interesting dynamics. First, I think the idea of him being a sleeper spy would be interesting. However it might be more interesting if he turned out to be like those Cold War spies. They were planted in the US and then the Soviet Union fell and they just had to going on(not sure if that's factual or just a story).
But I think it would be interesting to have this Romulan spy living behind enemy lines undercover as a Vulcan and then his side loses the war. He would have a deep resentment toward the new federation as they are his enemy. But he would also have a resentment toward Romulus as they just left him there.
The problem though for me is the other dynamic which is the fact that no human Romulan or ally has ever seen the other. In order to maintain the premise of the Balance of Terror it could never be revealed that this guy had any connection to the Romulans. So if this was something I was writing I wouldn't know what to do with him because his entire exciting background is rendered useless by the second dynamic.
I like the idea of Colonel Behcet being a sort of post-assimilation Picard. I could see him being willing to do what needs to be done is situations where normal Picard's ethics would get in the way. The question would be is he really evil, or is he just willing to get things done even when there may be a price to be paid?
I guess more than the character of Mayor of Mangala Colony, I like the idea of Mars being perceived as a dust bowl. When there is so much going on in the galaxy why would you want to be on a place like Mars? What would he do in order to keep Mars relevant? How can he save face and still get things done with all of those "Preserve Mars" activists around(ok I made that up). It would be interesting if he was sort of the last of a dying breed. As humanity is becoming more socially advanced, how does he keep a hold of his power while most of the upperclass/elite/politicians have been overthrown? I also made that part up too.
It's your story, I'm not trying to shoehorn in, but those are just some of my thoughts.
Spot on.
He knows full well he wouldn't like anything new, and even his praise of the new movies is of someone, who wants a nodd to the originals greatness not a sucessor.
Again I have no issue with him in other subforms but I really can't see what his purpose is in the future of trek.
Meh that's a matter of opinion, the idea that he is a lost character in the history of the federation is incredibly appealing. Also I view the character as a bit of foreshadowing to the reunification that happens two centuries later. Although the abandon spy idea is interesting it's too much of a garak rip off, and kinda misses teh beauty of the character. To me he's in many ways a god. Due to his percieved infallable nature has incredible power, as he recieves a huge amount of trust while having none of the ethics that block vulcans.
The fact that he's working for a government in a lost time also means he has capacities to do things that couldnt' be done by a outed romulan spy. I.e. many of his ideas become honoured parts of the federation.
Finally I like the idea that he's a neutral party, someone who sees himself above petty galactic politics, and is rather focused on his own schemes for amusement, much like the greek gods, commits mass torments in one moment while another being a great savior.
It's the kind of character that I think we've really missed out on in the modern age. Especially when you consider suchs characters capacity for creating dynamic plots.
EDIT: Q being an obvious example but he actually does have god like powers, the idea would be that he's a mere mortal who has his own pysch profile that is off the charts. Neither a typical romulan nor vulcan.
Well I think he'd be a better tragic hero. Someone who truly believes they are on the right side, and for much of show appears to be. However by the end has fallen apart, and drifted off into forgotten history.
Well I like the idea that by accident he actually becomes a huge influencer of the future of the federation. A zephrane cochrane type.
Who is the reason that mars orbit is used for ship building even in the 2380s.
What's with the hostility?
Also, I thought ID was a great movie on its own, not as some "improvement on TWOK." (it wasn't).Back with the topic at hand. I have a question regarding the characters. Why are we focused on Romulans, when the Federation has not seen Romulans, as pointed out, and not sure what the spy sub-plot would add. How do you foster cooperation among fledgling Federation members if they become aware of a spy in their midst, and don't trust anyone?
Similarly, with Subcomander Polikruik, who basically would fuel the paranoia of enemies among them due to her technological designs. The question becomes if they are finding real threats, then it doesn't foster cooperation, because there are few reasons to trust other races.
The concept is interesting, in broad strokes, but the characters are not every endearing, to me, due to the more paranoid state of mind. It doesn't feel very optimistic, in terms of Star Trek's worldview.
As a political thriller, it sounds interesting. As Star Trek, less so.
...For lack of a better description. I was just trying to say it seems obvious to me that you're an Old Testament TOS fan.
It wasn't meant as an insult, but let me know if you have a better description for, uh... well, for wantever you are.
...For lack of a better description. I was just trying to say it seems obvious to me that you're an Old Testament TOS fan.
It wasn't meant as an insult, but let me know if you have a better description for, uh... well, for wantever you are.
I prefer TOS. TOS is what introduced wee BillJ to the world of science fiction. But I've watched, and enjoyed to various degrees, all of it over the years. Bought the books and comics, novels and action figures.
I'm always happy to be blown away by some new rendition of Star Trek, even if it doesn't involve Kirk, Spock and the Enterprise. But I believe Star Trek should be "Star Trek". Not a crime drama or a show without FTL or stranded on Mars or a spy drama. It should be big, brash heroes in cool spaceships, out on the Final Frontier.
Make of that whatever you will.
New signature?
Also, I agree with the idea that Star Trek should be big, bold and adventurous. I personally don't care if it is TOS, TNG, DS9 VOY or ENT or none of the above. The world of Star Trek is big enough to allow for all of them and then some.
The difficulty is in the darker and grittier aspects of show creation. Trek has dabbled in lots of different story types, including all the spy stuff. But, it was done with a sense of optimism on the part of the character. Even Sisko, when trying to rationalize his actions, tried to spin it that he would save lives. Garak attempts to fight for a Cardassia that he believes in, even as it turns its back on him.
The point is, in Trek, if there is a dark point, there is a sense of hope that things can improve and that they can succeed in their efforts.
tl:dr The concept is interesting, but lacks of the balance of optimism and personal improvement that really inspired Star Trek to begin with.
They have not seen they but this is directly after the war. Also the fact that they look identical to vulcans is obviously why they can remain undetected.Back with the topic at hand. I have a question regarding the characters. Why are we focused on Romulans, when the Federation has not seen Romulans, as pointed out, and not sure what the spy sub-plot would add. How do you foster cooperation among fledgling Federation members if they become aware of a spy in their midst, and don't trust anyone?
The point is that they never are aware that he's a spy. That's what makes him so interesting, the second people figure that out in my opinion the character might as well be dead.
I'd see her actions like a hackivist. Also she causes issues she also tests the weakness of much of starfleet.
Keep in mind she becomes a central figure in collaboration of races, which is kinda the whole point of the shot. Each member although in theory opposeed to other creates a narrative where cooperation wins out.
Again a major theme would be the way in which cooperation beats out everything else. By including a romulan spy it makes everything full circle.
Regardless I don't think the audience would directly experience this as a political thriller.
Again I feel *cough cough* many here are unable to seperate the franchise from the product, were taking about 12 episode seasons. Action would advance the plot just as much as anything else.
Although these people would be advancing the overall plots of the show, there'd be other casts involved in actually living the action.
There would also be a cast of the young guns. Ambition young test pilots for lack of a better word. Looking for the fast track to career advancement. Testing experimental spacecraft, running surivival exercises with the safetys off, etc etc.
They have not seen they but this is directly after the war. Also the fact that they look identical to vulcans is obviously why they can remain undetected.Back with the topic at hand. I have a question regarding the characters. Why are we focused on Romulans, when the Federation has not seen Romulans, as pointed out, and not sure what the spy sub-plot would add. How do you foster cooperation among fledgling Federation members if they become aware of a spy in their midst, and don't trust anyone?
The point is that they never are aware that he's a spy. That's what makes him so interesting, the second people figure that out in my opinion the character might as well be dead.
I'd see her actions like a hackivist. Also she causes issues she also tests the weakness of much of starfleet.
Keep in mind she becomes a central figure in collaboration of races, which is kinda the whole point of the shot. Each member although in theory opposeed to other creates a narrative where cooperation wins out.
Again a major theme would be the way in which cooperation beats out everything else. By including a romulan spy it makes everything full circle.
Regardless I don't think the audience would directly experience this as a political thriller.
Again I feel *cough cough* many here are unable to seperate the franchise from the product, were taking about 12 episode seasons. Action would advance the plot just as much as anything else.
Although these people would be advancing the overall plots of the show, there'd be other casts involved in actually living the action.
There would also be a cast of the young guns. Ambition young test pilots for lack of a better word. Looking for the fast track to career advancement. Testing experimental spacecraft, running surivival exercises with the safetys off, etc etc.
Again, it sounds fun and engaging and exciting, but why does it have to be Star Trek, is my question.
I mean this sincerely, because it reminds me a lot of BSG, Top Gun and J*A*G all together, with the politics, testing of equipment, hacking and the like, but the description doesn't mesh for some reason.
I don't care about the age of the cast. They could be old, young, or somewhere in between. If they are young, then they will make mistakes and someone will die. If that happens, what does that mean to the rest?
The Romulan spy perhaps bothers me the most, because in order for me to buy in to the continuity, he must succeed or remained unidentified. Why should I want that to happen?
Also, why do I have to separate the franchise from the product? I deal with enough story ideas and concepts to differentiate the two. I'm looking at this proposal within the context of the larger universe. Does it make sense for things to evolve this way? Why or why not? What technology makes sense and what should the characters know or not know?
A quick example. This is a cool poster concept, but makes no sense from a continuity standpoint. Why? Because in that era, the characters should not know what Romulans look like.
It's questions like that that help world build.
They have not seen they but this is directly after the war. Also the fact that they look identical to vulcans is obviously why they can remain undetected.Back with the topic at hand. I have a question regarding the characters. Why are we focused on Romulans, when the Federation has not seen Romulans, as pointed out, and not sure what the spy sub-plot would add. How do you foster cooperation among fledgling Federation members if they become aware of a spy in their midst, and don't trust anyone?
The point is that they never are aware that he's a spy. That's what makes him so interesting, the second people figure that out in my opinion the character might as well be dead.
I'd see her actions like a hackivist. Also she causes issues she also tests the weakness of much of starfleet.
Keep in mind she becomes a central figure in collaboration of races, which is kinda the whole point of the shot. Each member although in theory opposeed to other creates a narrative where cooperation wins out.
Again a major theme would be the way in which cooperation beats out everything else. By including a romulan spy it makes everything full circle.
Regardless I don't think the audience would directly experience this as a political thriller.
Again I feel *cough cough* many here are unable to seperate the franchise from the product, were taking about 12 episode seasons. Action would advance the plot just as much as anything else.
Although these people would be advancing the overall plots of the show, there'd be other casts involved in actually living the action.
There would also be a cast of the young guns. Ambition young test pilots for lack of a better word. Looking for the fast track to career advancement. Testing experimental spacecraft, running surivival exercises with the safetys off, etc etc.
Again, it sounds fun and engaging and exciting, but why does it have to be Star Trek, is my question.
It doesn't have to be ST. We've all seen alot of ideas on here that might just make for interesting SciFi stories but are not necessarily best told as Star Trek stories. This is probably one of them.
I do like the 2160s as a setting. There is alot that could be done in the early Federation. But I think that where these ships are going is always going to be a better setting than the place where they were designed and built.
A station could be ok, but DS9 had the wormhole to bring the aliens to them, and for making excursions into the Gamma Quadrant. And of course it was Deep Space Nine. Sol 4 doesn't have the wormhole and it's not in deep space.
Those are both problems for a Star Trek show that has no Trek to the stars.
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I agree with this point. The OP actually sounds a lot like a new SF show in development on Syfy channel called "The Expanse."
None of this should be viewed as me trashing the concept. It sounds interesting, could be very engaging, but there are questions that I have regarding its fit in the Trek universe, because, so far, the characters are not lining up for that world, in my opinion. Mileage may vary and probably will.
