Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens

[DWF]

Yeah, apparently the difference is if you agree, it's criticism. If you disagree, it's bashing.

Nah, there's plenty of contructive criticism. Personly I kind of wish the deleted scenes in AOTC were still in the movie since they're all good character scenes, sure they add another ten minutes to the runing time which is I'm sure why tyhe were cut but they're good scenes none the less. The restructuring of the second act of ROTS made for some strangeness at the end of the movie and even the first time I saw it in the theater Anakin's rant before the duel was alittle odd. I can go on and on without bashinig the films. There's little anybody can do about the end result, so continuing to complain about them decades later makes little sense at least to me.

 

[DWF]

On a better note though, the AFI is honoring John Williams he's the first ever conposer to be honored by them.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

in the original version it was a quest for power.

So basically him being more Darth Vadery.

 

[DWF]

in the original version it was a quest for power.

So basically him being more Darth Vadery.

I thought it fit with Vader's plans in OT, he tellls Luke iin Empire that they could rule the galaxy together as father and son and I'm pretty sure in the novel of ROTJ Vader only blocked Luke because he thoguht it wasn't time yet to kill teh Emperor. He even tells Padme early on in ROTS that he wants more and it's not how a Jedi should behave.

But then in the movie as is, I do like the scene of Padme in her apartment and Anakin in the council chamber basically looking at each other with only Palpatine's words to taunt Anakin. It is IMO a beautiful scene. Anakin at that point doesn't want a repeat of what happened to his mother.

And truthfully I do think Anakin could've seen his mother sometime before the events in AOTC. Just I feel that Han could've paid off Jabba in the time between ANH and TESB.

 

[Nightowl1701]

No, it meant completely restructuring the second act of the movie, there were no visions of Padme's death and no mention of the midichrorians being able to recreate life. In the movie as is, it's Anakin's wish to save Padme's life that was the reason for his turning to the dark side in the original version it was a quest for power.

The nightmare and the opera scenes were there all along. The problem with the original version was that Anakin gave in too easily and quickly, and was totally unsympathetic throughout. For his fall to be a fall, the audience needed to see (as Padme did) that "there is good in him."

 

[cooleddie74]

On a better note though, the AFI is honoring John Williams he's the first ever conposer to be honored by them.

Good. He's just as integral and important a part of films as their directors and actors, if not moreso depending on which movies we're talking about.

 

[BillJ]

For his fall to be a fall, the audience needed to see (as Padme did) that "there is good in him."

Probably the biggest problem with Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, I just didn't care about Anakin Skywalker. He was an unlikable douche.

 

[cooleddie74]

He should have been more like his slave child self in AOTC. A lot sweeter and more compassionate so that when he finally snaps at the sight of his mother's death and slaughters the entire Tusken Raider camp we are truly shocked by his sudden and violent change of behavior. Naturally you're going to be a little more brooding and edgy as a 20-year-old than when you're just nine or ten, but George pushed him to that side a lot faster than he probably should have just to get him to the place he needed him to be when Episode III starts.

 

[BillJ]

He should have been more like his slave child self in AOTC. A lot sweeter and more compassionate so that when he finally snaps at the sight of his mother's death and slaughters the entire Tusken Raider camp we are truly shocked by his sudden and violent change of behavior. Naturally you're going to be a little more brooding and edgy as a 20-year-old than when you're just nine or ten, but George pushed him to that side a lot faster than he probably should have just to get him to the place he needed him to be when Episode III starts.

It would be interesting to see someone remake the prequel trilogy now.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Any author or filmmaker's ideas are up for legitimate debate and criticism. Monday morning quarterbacking? No, it's called being the consumer of that artist's concepts and deciding if they entertain or make sense to you or not.

Agreed. The ultra-defensive responses of "hater," "basher," "you are in no position to criticize" is the result of a kind of fan mind that is so afraid others will point out unavoidable problems in a production that it threatens the fan's self-created importance of the film, Tv series, etc.

Every film and filmmaker is deserving of a critical view, and whether his most die hard fans like it or not, the films of George Lucas swell with legitimate reasons to criticize.

 

[cooleddie74]

"You're in no position to criticize" is one of the most obnoxious statements thrown at people. I'm a fan. I paid to see this movie or listen to this music. I have at least as much invested in those films or that music as the other fan does. This is a free country and I'm a free individual with the right to express my opinions about art. If I don't like the way a director, actor or musician executed said art then it's my right to say that it disappointed me and probably could have been done better had different creative choices been made at the point of writing and filming or recording.

I'll criticize what I like if I feel the need to do so. Sometimes being discriminating consumers of product leads to improved product with enough noise being made. Artists aren't perfect human beings and when we treat them as beyond reproach we're doing nobody any favors.

 

[fireproof78]

THREAD WARS​

Episode XXVII​

THE REPETITIVE ARGUMENT​

It is an exhausting time for the Trek BBS....​

Hey...what did I miss?

*reads thread*



What just happened?

I thought the discussion was about Lucas and his ability to create the films he wanted. Apparently now it means we cannot criticize him?

Does that mean that Empire was Kershner's vision and not Lucas'? Also, does this mean we cannot criticize Abrams when TFA comes out?

Seriously-someone help me out

Who will dare criticize Abrams, aparently with only a few pictures and a couple of short trailers he can do what Ponce de Loen couldn't, that is give people their second childhood. And I still say there's a difference between criticism and bashing and complaining, nobody's suggesting you can't criticize Lucas.

Who will dare criticize Abrams? Um, lots of people already have, from fans to non-fans, I have seen sniping at Abrams since the announcement.

If the films are weak in an area, that will be criticized, just like the PT. The idea that is is "bashing" to still be discussing the flaws in the PT, what went wrong, and what could have been, seems like an odd question to me. I enjoy many films, all different ages, and I still analyze and critique them. That's part of engaging a creative work.

Abrams will receive similar levels of criticism, if not even more, since he is stepping in to a previously established work. He wasn't immune in the Star Trek fandom (obviously) and he won't be immune with this film.

For his fall to be a fall, the audience needed to see (as Padme did) that "there is good in him."

Probably the biggest problem with Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, I just didn't care about Anakin Skywalker. He was an unlikable douche.

This is my general opinion as well. The scenes that were added gave an additional motivation for Anakin to try and save Padme, but I don't buy his fall, pure and simple. The whole set-up of his character doesn't connect with me, as with many of the characters from the PT, I struggle to care about them and want them to succeed. Anankin is probably the biggest example for me.

 

[DWF]

Personally I haven't been able to care about for years, unless they're put into some extreme peril. As long as the movie or TV ep. is entertaining is really all taht matters to me. So many factors affect my view of a movie, namely how tired I am, i used to see some movie right after work and was really too tired to care about the characters most of the time. I'm sure TFA will be entertaining, but I would like to see another trailer with more of the movie in it, it's just hard for me to get worked up over TFA yet.

 

[Tulin]

Michael B. Jordan is being rumoured for the part of Boba Fett is his own standalone film.

I'm not sure I'm buying it - Disney has been VERY astute and political in distancing themselves from the universally maligned PT, WHY would they take on an actor that has such a poisonous status with the very fan community these films are at?

 

[Nightowl1701]

If he's in the helmet the whole time and Temuera Morrison is providing the voice, it hardly matters who they cast. With the helmet off? Temeura's hardly aged a bit since AOTC, so again (depending on when in the timeline this movie is set) a recast is unnecessary. At worst you'll need a bit of CGI de-aging (like Michael Douglas in Ant-Man) to shave a couple decades off for one or two scenes.

 

[cooleddie74]

^
This.

If the actor's face is never seen and continuity isn't disrupted, why care?

 

[Tulin]

Then it's bad business sense. I'm sure they could pay generic 23 yr old working out at Gold's Gym(one of a hundred thousand in LA)a whole helluva lost less money than somebody with even the low level caché of Micheal B. "You'll all be there opening weekend anyway" Jordan.

 

[Corran Horn]

On a better note though, the AFI is honoring John Williams he's the first ever conposer to be honored by them.

Good. He's just as integral and important a part of films as their directors and actors, if not moreso depending on which movies we're talking about.

I think it was the AFI tribute to Lucas - he thanked John Williams during his speech and he mentioned that he didn't think the Star Wars films would have worked at all without JW's work. The camera panned to Williams and who I assume was his wife and JW looked so touched - his wife mouthed something like 'wow, that was so nice' and JW mouthed 'yes'.

 

[Tulin]

It's true too!

There's the now famous pre and post music screenings of SW Lucas did for his film maker buddies (NOT a test screening for a non-industry audience!) and the effect it had on the film.

 

[DWF]

Richard Donner had similar words of praise for Williams' work on the Superman theme. Rogue One will certainly be a different movie without his musical score.