2387

[Christopher]

Or simply that an existing earlier hypothesis was incorrect... like em.. science.

Right. Just because the characters thought timelines were changing in a certain way, that doesn't mean they weren't misinterpreting it. Maybe when they thought the timeline was being rewritten around them, they were simply jumping between two coexisting timelines.

Granted, there are enough "changing history" stories in Trek that in DTI, I had to acknowledge it as something that actually happened -- but as I explained above, it would logically have to be the exception, not the rule. The norm would be for parallel timelines to coexist, and specific conditions would have to be met for one timeline to come to an end. (Although its events would not be "erased," since if something happens, it happens. Those events just wouldn't be remembered after the two parallel timelines converged into one.)

But another thing I tried to get across in both my DTI novels was that the Federation's understanding of temporal theory was evolving and improving over time, so that by the 2380s, they had a firmer understanding of just what would happen in what situation. Implicitly, this is why Spock Prime wasn't worried about his timeline being "erased" when he fell through the black hole. By 2387, he understood temporal theory well enough to see that what happened to him wasn't the kind of event that would endanger his timeline. Any conflict between that and his ideas and explanations about time travel in earlier stories would simply be a consequence of his understanding of temporal physics improving in the interim.

 

[trash80]

The problem i have with slowing the passage of time down in the novels is that we end up with so many major events compressed into a brief period. The Star Trek universe already seems a very dangerous place but there doesn't seem a day go by without some sort of astral-political upheaval or a new galaxy endangering threat.

Must be a real PITA arranging your holidays.

 

[Christopher]

The problem i have with slowing the passage of time down in the novels is that we end up with so many major events compressed into a brief period.

Unless there's a shift away from constant "event"-driven storytelling and back to more standalone adventures. Just looking at the first four post-Fall novels chronologically (since I haven't read beyond that yet), The Light Fantastic and The Missing were both relatively small stories in scope, Takedown was quadrant-wide but had relatively little long-term impact, and Disavowed was major from the Mirror Universe's perspective but much less so for Prime. So it seems to me that the tendency to bounce from huge event to huge event is subsiding.

 

[Ronald Held]

I think they should allow time to progress and reference Hobus the destruction of Romulus and Remus,and the disappearance of Spock when it is permitted.

 

[chrinFinity]

Implicitly, this is why Spock Prime wasn't worried about his timeline being "erased" when he fell through the black hole. By 2387, he understood temporal theory well enough to see that what happened to him wasn't the kind of event that would endanger his timeline. Any conflict between that and his ideas and explanations about time travel in earlier stories would simply be a consequence of his understanding of temporal physics improving in the interim.

I want to answer you, but I'm afraid to because of the censure.

Why is it that you and Boomaba are apparently allowed to continue discussing this topic, when I got a citation and threatened with more than that? I am unclear as to how the rules work, and to whom specifically they are applied.

Star Trek Nemesis was a widely panned flop, but it had a huge effect on the novelverse - it introduced the Remans, married Riker and Troi, moved them onto the USS Titan and more. Why would those changes from an unpopular film be acceptable, and the ones from Star Trek be not? Breaking up the TNG crew is at least as big a deal as destroying Romulus is.

How can you possibly compare the deaths of billions of people and the destruction of their homeworld (Romulus) to two people marrying, moving, and changing jobs (Riker and Troi)? The novels have all sorts of political intrigue threads running through them that will be trashed if Romulus is destroyed in the Litverse.

 

[DimesDan]

Implicitly, this is why Spock Prime wasn't worried about his timeline being "erased" when he fell through the black hole. By 2387, he understood temporal theory well enough to see that what happened to him wasn't the kind of event that would endanger his timeline. Any conflict between that and his ideas and explanations about time travel in earlier stories would simply be a consequence of his understanding of temporal physics improving in the interim.

I want to answer you, but I'm afraid to because of the censure.

Are you saying that Trampledamage is an official who examines books, plays, news reports, motion pictures, radio and television programs, letters, cablegrams, etc., for the purpose of suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds.

Or are you saying that she is demonstarting a strong or vehement expression of disapproval at what you said?

Either way, from what I could tell, you weren't talking about Trek Lit and she wasn't censoring you, although if she was, she was completely right to do so in the capacity of being a mod in these parts.

Why is it that you and Boomaba are apparently allowed to continue discussing this topic, when I got a citation and threatened with more than that? I am unclear as to how the rules work, and to whom specifically they are applied.

Because from where I am sitting even though you are a special kind of special, they are a different kind of special.

Or it could be that she hasn't seen what they wrote.

 

[chrinFinity]

On topic, does anyone know when Pocket's licenses are up for renegotiation?

In reply to Insulin Junkie,

Either way, from what I could tell, you weren't talking about Trek Lit and she wasn't censoring you, although if she was, she was completely right to do so in the capacity of being a mod in these parts.

censure. noun. an official reprimand, as by a legislative body of one of its members.

Because from where I am sitting even though you are a special kind of special, they are a different kind of special.

Could you explain in greater detail what your meaning is here?

 

[DimesDan]

Because from where I am sitting even though you are a special kind of special, they are a different kind of special.

Could you explain in greater detail what your meaning is here?

That would see me go completely off topic so I'll have to decline.

 

[Trekkin]

I can answer it - they were referring explicitly to the novels. Christopher spoke about how time-travel was developed in his books, and why that's set up that the books in the Prime 'line' don't (from a narrative standpoint) have to end with Hobus.

It wasn't simply repeating the argument: 'But the series always showed blah!', 'No it didn't, and the movie clearly explained blah blah!'

 

[F. King Daniel]

Star Trek Nemesis was a widely panned flop, but it had a huge effect on the novelverse - it introduced the Remans, married Riker and Troi, moved them onto the USS Titan and more. Why would those changes from an unpopular film be acceptable, and the ones from Star Trek be not? Breaking up the TNG crew is at least as big a deal as destroying Romulus is.

How can you possibly compare the deaths of billions of people and the destruction of their homeworld (Romulus) to two people marrying, moving, and changing jobs (Riker and Troi)? The novels have all sorts of political intrigue threads running through them that will be trashed if Romulus is destroyed in the Litverse.

From a real-life perspective, splitting up the Next Gen crew is a much bigger deal than blowing up a planet.

And in-universe, those Romulan plot threads won't be kaput, they will take interesting new turns. I'd love to read about what happens to the Romulan survivors, and the Typhon Pact, in the aftermath of the supernova.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Just to be clear, there's no rule saying they're not allowed to do anything in the year 2387, they're just not allowed to reference the destruction of Romulus. Pocket is just choosing to hold off on getting to 2387 at the moment as they consider their options on what they can do in 2387 and hope the longer they wait, the restrictions regarding Romulus may eventually be lifted.

Which is probably for the best seeing as if they keep going through the years quickly eventually they get to a point where they have to decide if the main characters from the TV shows start to get phased out due to old age.

Will they? As of the 2380s a lot of people seen during TOS are still alive and active in some manner.

Which with the exception of two characters comes off as pretty fanwanky especially since TNG already showed that one of them in their 130s didn't come off as that active anymore.

In fact, the only TOS character killed so far in the novels was actually left vague with an out hinted at in that novel.

After pointing out that should he survive he won't be taking part in too many more adventures anymore.

 

[Trekkin]

Spoiler: spoiler

We're talking about Scotty, right? I haven't missed anything?

 

[Idran]

Spoiler: You need text here

We're talking about Scotty, right? I haven't missed anything?

Nope, you're right. (click quote on this for the formatting)

 

[Trekkin]

Thanks. This is what happens when you post on multiple sites, all your formatting gets mixed up.

 

[BillJ]

On topic, does anyone know when Pocket's licenses are up for renegotiation?

Pocket is owned by Simon and Schuster, and Simon and Schuster is owned by these guys!

It would take a pretty sweet deal to lure Star Trek away.

I don't understand why the destruction of Romulus and the loss of Spock is a big deal? The writers are paid to be creative, and when they get to these events, I'm sure they'll be able to creatively integrate them into the current novel continuity.

 

[Trekkin]

It's the 'time-travel erased what came before' thing. A poster's worried the books are going to clean reboot once they catch up with the movies or Paramount/Bad Robot/Whoeveriscallingtheshots decides to play ball with Pocket.

Coz apparently having different books alternating between the different universes is not poss...wait a minute.

If time travel in Trek novels just erases all that came before, how do you explain 'Q Squared?' Time travelling Q accidentally created the Where No Man Has Gone Before/'James R Kirk'/living Jack Crusher timeline, and those are pretty clearly alternate realities. Even if he was just blasted into an already existing one, he didn't 'erase' anything. If anything, the books suggests his time- travelling interference was a paradox loop. We'd seen a later point in that timeline, and there's no indication he changed anything by suddenly causing 'Where No Man Has Gone Before.'

 

[trampledamage]

I can answer it - they were referring explicitly to the novels. Christopher spoke about how time-travel was developed in his books, and why that's set up that the books in the Prime 'line' don't (from a narrative standpoint) have to end with Hobus.

It wasn't simply repeating the argument: 'But the series always showed blah!', 'No it didn't, and the movie clearly explained blah blah!'

This. Thank you Hela

 

[Idran]

On topic, does anyone know when Pocket's licenses are up for renegotiation?

Pocket is owned by Simon and Schuster, and Simon and Schuster is owned by these guys!

It would take a pretty sweet deal to lure Star Trek away.

I don't understand why the destruction of Romulus and the loss of Spock is a big deal? The writers are paid to be creative, and when they get to these events, I'm sure they'll be able to creatively integrate them into the current novel continuity.

According to a post earlier in this very thread, S&S told David Mack they were considering dropping the Trek license in 2011, and Cold Equations had the potential to be the finale for Pocket Books Treklit.

But that aside, I assume chriNfinity is talking about when the Bad Robot licenses are up for renegotiation, in terms of when would be the next shot at arranging a deal that would allow for incorporating the 2009 movie into the books.

And the big deal is that they literally aren't allowed to reference anything from that movie. So they can't say that Romulus is destroyed or that Spock is gone, they'd have to just stop mentioning them.

 

[BillJ]

According to a post earlier in this very thread, S&S told David Mack they were considering dropping the Trek license in 2011, and Cold Equations had the potential to be the finale for Pocket Books Treklit.

Which means there may have been arm twisting from the parent company. But it does lead to questions about how profitable Trek Lit actually is for Simon and Schuster.

In the end, someone else would pick up the license and start telling new stories. Though I'm not exactly seeing Earth-shattering consequences from the license shifting to another publisher.

So they can't say that Romulus is destroyed or that Spock is gone, they'd have to just stop mentioning them.

Which doesn't make a lot of sense as the licensed Star Trek Online uses the elements from the film in their game. Then you've had both Q and elements of DS9 in the licensed comics.

 

[The Wormhole]

Then you've had both Q and elements of DS9 in the licensed comics.

The fact that the Q story involved DS9 sure surprised the hell out of me, since I was under the impression IDW no longer had the license to do DS9.