2387

[Trekkin]

Gonna be honest, I didn't even check the little gender symbol. I think I'm used to a lot of people not having them at all. Also, notice I said 'a few'. Unfortunately, you not liking it and complaining about it on the Internet is not enough to make out it's a scandal.

If you're claiming that we can't use EU material to prove that the Nu-Trek is a branched timeline and won't 'end' the prime-verse novels, then you sure as hell cant use the novelisation to prove anything. TNG established Trek supernovas can wipe out interstellar empires, so there's no problem with just taking on-screen Spock at his word.

If you're taking the novelization as canon, then you have nothing to worry about - the Prime-verse in the novels will simply go on without a Romulus or a Spock.

Finally - even if Pocket does decide to end the Prime-timeline, everything will still be really simple. Readers will just have to:

1.Stop reading

Or

2.Cope

 

[DimesDan]

It doesn't. It's just resurrecting the thing we were told to drop.

I managed to miss that. I shall not be replying to that tangent again.

I guess the direction Pocket takes would also depend on how long Bad Robot sticks around (I'm perfectly fine with forever, but they might not), or whether the various players manage to make nice on the matter. Even something like a spike in the sales of Trek Lit or Beyond performing above and er, beyond expectations might change minds. Who knows?

I think it would be rather interesting that in some later book, Hobus is mentioned in the context that it went "pop," took Romulus and the like with it and nothing else was mentioned for a while.

Finally - even if Pocket does decide to end the Prime-timeline, everything will still be really simple. Readers will just have to:

1.Stop reading

Or

2.Cope

I'm sure I read somewhere that Cold Equations was at one point going to be the end of Pockets licence and even the end of the Lit-Verse.

Plus, I'm sure all the books will still be here if it ends, unless of course Amazons data centre gets destroyed for all the Kindle readers.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Star Trek Nemesis was a widely panned flop, but it had a huge effect on the novelverse - it introduced the Remans, married Riker and Troi, moved them onto the USS Titan and more. Why would those changes from an unpopular film be acceptable, and the ones from Star Trek be not? Breaking up the TNG crew is at least as big a deal as destroying Romulus is.

 

[Idran]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Cold Equations was at one point going to be the end of Pockets licence and even the end of the Lit-Verse.

Really? Oh, huh; I'd never heard that, but given the scope of the Machine, in hindsight I can see that potentiality. Was that just a rumor, or what?

 

[Paris]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Cold Equations was at one point going to be the end of Pockets licence and even the end of the Lit-Verse.

Really? Oh, huh; I'd never heard that, but given the scope of the Machine, in hindsight I can see that potentiality. Was that just a rumor, or what?

I believe David Mack actually mentioned this at one point. I'm not sure which thread it was in though...

 

[Defcon]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Cold Equations was at one point going to be the end of Pockets licence and even the end of the Lit-Verse.

Really? Oh, huh; I'd never heard that, but given the scope of the Machine, in hindsight I can see that potentiality. Was that just a rumor, or what?

I believe David Mack actually mentioned this at one point. I'm not sure which thread it was in though...

Is this the post you mean:

I want to ask Mr. Mack How long did it take for you to come up with the story ideas for the Cold Equations book trilogy and the return of a favorite TNG character?I really enjoyed reading this miniseries .I recently listened to Trek.fm's podcast interview with you about these books and wondered how long did it take you to write these novels.

I started brainstorming story ideas for the trilogy with the editor in December of 2010, even before we had a contract. For a variety of reasons, I ended up using none of the ideas from that first round of pitches.

I started work on the trilogy in March of 2011. I had first drafts of story outlines by May of 2011. In its original incarnation, the working title of the trilogy was Star Trek Kindred. The theme for the trilogy was "family." Book one was an early version of The Persistence of Memory, but without the Soong story, and the resurrected character was revealed near the start of the story. Book Two was about the death of Picard, and Book Three was about the ascendance of Worf to control of the Klingon Empire.

As one might imagine, there were a lot of plot and continuity problems with the first-pass outlines.

My second proposal for the trilogy (still under the banner title of Kindred) was submitted on August 15, 2011.

I'd added the Soong story arc to the middle of The Peristence of Memory, which was very close to its eventual final version. (One big difference: this intermediate version involved the return of Rhea McAdams; in retrospect, maybe I should have kept that, to set her up better before book three. Oh, well.)

Book Two was changed to a story about Worf and his adult son, Alexander. It was plotted as a sequel to Keith R.A. DeCandido's novel Diplomatic Implausibility.

Book Three was the tale of elderly Jean-Luc Picard battling his own deteriorating mind and the cruel schemes of the time-and-space-hopping Devidians (TNG: "Time's Arrow," Pts. 1 & 2). It would have ended with the death of Picard, and served as a swansong for Pocket's line of Star Trek books. (At that time, S&S was considering letting go of the Trek license.) It would have been a bittersweet and deeply personal novel, and it's the only one of the scrapped ideas that I'm sad I won't get to write.

The next curve ball in the process was the decision by S&S to renew its Star Trek license. By late August, my mandate to "turn off the universe on my way out" was changed to "deliver a trilogy that keeps the story going and sets up a new status quo." So, in fall of 2011, I had to go back to the drawing board.

My next round of proposals, which were pretty much near-final versions of all three stories, was submitted on October 28, 2011. After parsing the notes from the editor and fellow authors, I revised the outlines for books one and two and resubmitted them on November 11, 2011. The final version of book three's story outline was turned in on November 29, 2011.

I got the green light to proceed with book one on December 13, 2011. The stories for books two and three were approved on January 18, 2012.

I started writing book one, The Persistence of Memory, in December 2011. I delivered the manuscript on February 1, 2012.

Started writing Silent Weapons on February 3, 2012. Turned in the manuscript on April 14, 2012.

Started writing The Body Electric on April 17, 2012. Turned in the manuscript on June 30, 2012.

So, from first brainstorm to final manuscripts: approximately 18 months.

 

[Ronald Held]

So when are we seeing books in 2387 with events leading up to the Hobus SS supernova?

 

[JD]

I hope this post is OK, because this was really bugging me.

Not in "Yesteryear" . . .

SPOCK: And you in yours, Commander Thelin.

Thelin and his timeline goes on, in "The Chimes at Midnight" in Myriad Universes: Echoes and Refractions.

I already addressed Spock's comments from Yesteryear in an earlier post.

Furthermore, and I say again, for reasons explained by Christopher the tie-ins hold no weight in the context of this discussion topic: How canonical events from Abrams' films, in conjunction with licensing restrictions, have damaged the potential of the litverse centring on 2387.

...again, sci-fi has brainwashed audiences into believing an absurdity. A timeline "erasing" another makes no sense, for reasons I've explained before. The more realistic scenario is for the timelines to coexist continuously. That should be the default.

Real physics and "realism" is irrelevant in this situation. It's like trying to use molecular chemistry to defend an argument over the color of the sparkles out of Harry Potter's wand. What matters is what's been previously established about the universe in which the story operates, and in that universe, it is established and reinforced over and over again that timelines can be erased.

To find evidence to argue against that, you'd need to go outside of canon, and whether it's to real-world physics or to tie-in fiction makes no difference. Without an explicit canonical explanation otherwise, the new movies stop the Prime timeline as of 2387.

You can't just change something so fundamental about how the world works without giving an explanation.

Why can't things change? Just because things were done one way in the past doesn't mean they can't be done differently now, especially if it's based off of constantly changing real world physics and theories. I'm pretty sure there are old episodes and books that refer to Pluto as a planet. There's plenty of stuff purely in universe that has changed with time too. Should Spock still only be called a Vulcanian, should Starfleet only represent Earth, should the Borg only be interested in technology with no interest in people and have babies?

 

[BillJ]

Why can't things change? Just because things were done one way in the past doesn't mean they can't be done differently now, especially if it's based off of constantly changing real world physics and theories. I'm pretty sure there are old episodes and books that refer to Pluto as a planet. There's plenty of stuff purely in universe that has changed with time too. Should Spock still only be called a Vulcanian, should Starfleet only represent Earth, should the Borg only be interested in technology with no interest in people and have babies?

+1

Life is change.

 

[Christopher]

Why can't things change? Just because things were done one way in the past doesn't mean they can't be done differently now, especially if it's based off of constantly changing real world physics and theories.

Yes. There's a long history of science fiction series in prose changing their continuity and ground rules to reflect real scientific advances. It's the prerogative of any long-running series to change the parts that don't work in retrospect. After all, it's fiction, not a documentary. It's all just pretend to begin with, so it's easy enough to pretend that an earlier part happened differently than you pretended it did the first time.

 

[Idran]

So when are we seeing books in 2387 with events leading up to the Hobus SS supernova?

Not for a long while, because the books aren't allowed to reference the 2009 movie under current licensing agreements. That's why they've been slowing down chronologically in-setting.

 

[JoeZhang]

Or simply that an existing earlier hypothesis was incorrect... like em.. science.

Because on-screen how much time-travel did we ever see? Even if was 100 that is a tiny data-set with such a complex area.

 

[BobtheGunslinge]

Can they get around it by forcusing on ships exploring outside the immediate vicinity of the Federation?

 

[Idran]

Can they get around it by forcusing on ships exploring outside the immediate vicinity of the Federation?

Oh, they don't even need to go that far: They could get around it by just not mentioning Romulus or Spock or whatever-they-end-up-calling-Hobus. They're just choosing to stave off 2387 for now instead.

 

[The Wormhole]

Can they get around it by forcusing on ships exploring outside the immediate vicinity of the Federation?

Just to be clear, there's no rule saying they're not allowed to do anything in the year 2387, they're just not allowed to reference the destruction of Romulus. Pocket is just choosing to hold off on getting to 2387 at the moment as they consider their options on what they can do in 2387 and hope the longer they wait, the restrictions regarding Romulus may eventually be lifted.

 

[Paris]

Really? Oh, huh; I'd never heard that, but given the scope of the Machine, in hindsight I can see that potentiality. Was that just a rumor, or what?

I believe David Mack actually mentioned this at one point. I'm not sure which thread it was in though...

Is this the post you mean:

I want to ask Mr. Mack How long did it take for you to come up with the story ideas for the Cold Equations book trilogy and the return of a favorite TNG character?I really enjoyed reading this miniseries .I recently listened to Trek.fm's podcast interview with you about these books and wondered how long did it take you to write these novels.

I started brainstorming story ideas for the trilogy with the editor in December of 2010, even before we had a contract. For a variety of reasons, I ended up using none of the ideas from that first round of pitches.

I started work on the trilogy in March of 2011. I had first drafts of story outlines by May of 2011. In its original incarnation, the working title of the trilogy was Star Trek Kindred. The theme for the trilogy was "family." Book one was an early version of The Persistence of Memory, but without the Soong story, and the resurrected character was revealed near the start of the story. Book Two was about the death of Picard, and Book Three was about the ascendance of Worf to control of the Klingon Empire.

As one might imagine, there were a lot of plot and continuity problems with the first-pass outlines.

My second proposal for the trilogy (still under the banner title of Kindred) was submitted on August 15, 2011.

I'd added the Soong story arc to the middle of The Peristence of Memory, which was very close to its eventual final version. (One big difference: this intermediate version involved the return of Rhea McAdams; in retrospect, maybe I should have kept that, to set her up better before book three. Oh, well.)

Book Two was changed to a story about Worf and his adult son, Alexander. It was plotted as a sequel to Keith R.A. DeCandido's novel Diplomatic Implausibility.

Book Three was the tale of elderly Jean-Luc Picard battling his own deteriorating mind and the cruel schemes of the time-and-space-hopping Devidians (TNG: "Time's Arrow," Pts. 1 & 2). It would have ended with the death of Picard, and served as a swansong for Pocket's line of Star Trek books. (At that time, S&S was considering letting go of the Trek license.) It would have been a bittersweet and deeply personal novel, and it's the only one of the scrapped ideas that I'm sad I won't get to write.

The next curve ball in the process was the decision by S&S to renew its Star Trek license. By late August, my mandate to "turn off the universe on my way out" was changed to "deliver a trilogy that keeps the story going and sets up a new status quo." So, in fall of 2011, I had to go back to the drawing board.

My next round of proposals, which were pretty much near-final versions of all three stories, was submitted on October 28, 2011. After parsing the notes from the editor and fellow authors, I revised the outlines for books one and two and resubmitted them on November 11, 2011. The final version of book three's story outline was turned in on November 29, 2011.

I got the green light to proceed with book one on December 13, 2011. The stories for books two and three were approved on January 18, 2012.

I started writing book one, The Persistence of Memory, in December 2011. I delivered the manuscript on February 1, 2012.

Started writing Silent Weapons on February 3, 2012. Turned in the manuscript on April 14, 2012.

Started writing The Body Electric on April 17, 2012. Turned in the manuscript on June 30, 2012.

So, from first brainstorm to final manuscripts: approximately 18 months.

Yup. That's the one

 

[Squiggy]

Yes, they still happened, but that timeline would be destroyed (cease) after 2387, based on how time travel works in Star Trek. And that is a huge problem for the novels..

Nope.

They're alternate timelines. Not replacement timelines.

Trek-prime still goes on. They rebuild the Romulan Empire, but Spock got sucked into a black hole. Kirk was born in Iowa. His dad lived. Vulcan wasn't destroyed. The timeline is intact.

Nu-Trek also goes on parallel (see: Parallels) to Trek-prime.

For any event there is an infinite number of possible outcomes. Our choices determine which outcome will follow. According to a theory, everything that can happen does happen in some other quantum reality.

Or fuck it. Maybe it did erase it. Who cares? We weren't ever going to see it again and the novels never were considered canon anyway.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Can they get around it by forcusing on ships exploring outside the immediate vicinity of the Federation?

Just to be clear, there's no rule saying they're not allowed to do anything in the year 2387, they're just not allowed to reference the destruction of Romulus. Pocket is just choosing to hold off on getting to 2387 at the moment as they consider their options on what they can do in 2387 and hope the longer they wait, the restrictions regarding Romulus may eventually be lifted.

Which is probably for the best seeing as if they keep going through the years quickly eventually they get to a point where they have to decide if the main characters from the TV shows start to get phased out due to old age.

 

[trampledamage]

Yes, they still happened, but that timeline would be destroyed (cease) after 2387, based on how time travel works in Star Trek. And that is a huge problem for the novels..

Nope.

They're alternate timelines. Not replacement timelines.

Trek-prime still goes on. They rebuild the Romulan Empire, but Spock got sucked into a black hole. Kirk was born in Iowa. His dad lived. Vulcan wasn't destroyed. The timeline is intact.

Nu-Trek also goes on parallel (see: Parallels) to Trek-prime.

For any event there is an infinite number of possible outcomes. Our choices determine which outcome will follow. According to a theory, everything that can happen does happen in some other quantum reality.

Or fuck it. Maybe it did erase it. Who cares? We weren't ever going to see it again and the novels never were considered canon anyway.

Moving on please...

It must be possible to discuss the possiblities of what's going to happen in the books without arguing about whether the movies were right or not.

 

[The Wormhole]

Can they get around it by forcusing on ships exploring outside the immediate vicinity of the Federation?

Just to be clear, there's no rule saying they're not allowed to do anything in the year 2387, they're just not allowed to reference the destruction of Romulus. Pocket is just choosing to hold off on getting to 2387 at the moment as they consider their options on what they can do in 2387 and hope the longer they wait, the restrictions regarding Romulus may eventually be lifted.

Which is probably for the best seeing as if they keep going through the years quickly eventually they get to a point where they have to decide if the main characters from the TV shows start to get phased out due to old age.

Will they? As of the 2380s a lot of people seen during TOS are still alive and active in some manner. In fact, the only TOS character killed so far in the novels was actually left vague with an out hinted at in that novel.