9X02 "The Witch's Familiar" Grading/Discussion)

[Gingerbread Demon]

There's so much to like in this episode...

Part 1 7/10
Part 2 8/10

Missy was awesome. The Doctor was even more awesome.

Don't forget the whole twist on Emperor Palpatine and "strike me down, use your hate" from Return Of The Jedi..

OMG this was still a good episode despite that. Moffat steals ideas from everywhere haha..

Davros is like every Bond villian. Bond has ample chance to kill them but he never does.

With the Timelord energy does that mean that Davros and everyone now know where Galifrey is, and the prophecy of the hybrid is come true? Was that really why the Doctor ran away from Galifrey all those years ago?

BTW does anyone know what the actual skating thing is that the snake guy was using to glide on in part 1? They showed it in the extras but it was very, very quick glimpse and you miss it?

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

I wonder who played the First and Fourth so that scene? (The credits are shrunken for the BBC America broadcasts in case anyone in the UK is puzzled.)

There was no one listed in the credits. For all we know, it could have been the same people who wore those costumes for the group shot in Day of the Doctor.

Wait a minute. Those were actual people dressed as the previous Doctors? I thought that it was Matt and David against a green screen and the rest were photoshopped.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Recall a Dalek asked for "mercy" in the season 5 finale Big Bang.

Maybe Moffat is trying to be meta with his own works.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

I wonder who played the First and Fourth so that scene? (The credits are shrunken for the BBC America broadcasts in case anyone in the UK is puzzled.)

There was no one listed in the credits. For all we know, it could have been the same people who wore those costumes for the group shot in Day of the Doctor.

Wait a minute. Those were actual people dressed as the previous Doctors? I thought that it was Matt and David against a green screen and the rest were photoshopped.

The "Making Of" shows that they got actors to dress up as the previous Doctors for that shot, at least showing them from the rear.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

OK for some reason the forum is busted. I could not quote Janeway Girl's post. It wouldn't let me.

Anyway yeah that kind of bugged me. I also thought Clara would have flashbacks to Souffle Girl...

Also the whole language thing is a cop out. Clara could talk properly in "Asylum" so what is the issue? Lazy writing?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

OK for some reason the forum is busted. I could not quote Janeway Girl's post. It wouldn't let me.

Anyway yeah that kind of bugged me. I also thought Clara would have flashbacks to Souffle Girl...

Also the whole language thing is a cop out. Clara could talk properly in "Asylum" so what is the issue? Lazy writing?

OMG you're right! I forgot about that.

I guess logic really has left this series. Continuity is all screwy and it seems Moffat is just making things up as he goes along.

 

[Mr Awe]

Above average. Definitely a step from the first part because it actually had a plot rather than a random assortment of scenes put together! I enjoyed this. It's not a classic like Genesis, but it was entertaining. It was a bit too handy having those old Daleks in the sewers. They never existed in the show before and suddenly they're introduced and instrumental. But, at least they were set up in advance (a bit).

Missy wasn't quite as annoying as last week. Truly sinister. The Doctor and Clara were great in this one.

While I'm sure we're supposed to be dying of curiosity about the confession and why the Doctor left Gallifrey, I grow tired of these season long teases that never pan out to be as epic as intended. Whatever happens, happens.

Oh, and I wish regeneration energy stopped being a thing to be used, transferred, etc. Let the Doctor regenerate when needed but he shouldn't have a stash of magic energy for use whenever the plot needs it.

Mr Awe

 

[JRoss]

As soon as I saw the cables, back when the Doctor wakes up after the snakes capture him, I told my wife that Davros was going to steal a regeneration.


The great thing about this episode is how well acted it was. I actually believed Darth Sidious was having a tender moment.

 

[Mr Awe]

The extended conversation between The Doctor and Davros was pretty griping, and while I had a hard time imagining Davros being portrayed as sympathetic, I did love the twist of Davros using The Doctor's compassion against him. Unfortunately, the second twist that The Doctor knew that he was up to no good comes off flat and takes away from the first one. Another case of Moffat trying to be a bit too clever. It mostly works but not as well as he might think it does.

I agree completely. It was a clever idea. In fact, we saw how a little while before, Davros identified the Doctor's
motivation for coming--compassion. And, then he promptly used it against him. Agree that the Doctor always knowing felt a bit flat and it detracted from the entire exchange before. Suddenly changed it from an interesting conversion to hollow. As you say, it mostly works but also shoots some of the scenes in the foot.

One the plus side, I thought Davros returning in Journey's End was mostly wasted. I don't think that's the case here. He was used effectively.

Mr Awe

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Okay, that's more like it. Redeemed the "Meh"-ness of the last episode, though I hope the rest of the season isn't like this...i.e., underwhelming part 1 with slow buildup leads to much better part 2.

Nice callback to Oswin, too. Not sure how I feel about "sonic glasses" yet. How are they supposed to work? Can't the TARDIS just make another screwdriver? It did for Eleven.

And how much regeneration energy did he expend? It certainly seemed like he gave up enough to render several potential regenerations, well....gone.

If all the parts 1 are as good as this part 2 was, then the rest of the parts 2 might seem less exciting.

There is probably no perfect balance, I liked The Magician's Apprentice pretty well and The Witch's Familiar was great.

I think I'd go with 8/10 & 10/10.

 

[tomalak301]

I really liked that episode. In fact, I think that might be the best episode I've seen in the last two seasons of this show. First off, on my new grading scale, the music wasn't very bombastic this time around so that was a plus. Also, I decided to watch the episode with Closed Captioning on and I got a whole lot more enjoyment out of it understanding what was going on.

Loved the scenes between the Doctor and Davros, and if they ever decided to do another spin off series, Missy should be the lead star. She is great, sinister and all, and I loved her in this episode, especially down in the sewer.

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

The Doctor seeing through Davros' lie reminds me of the end of Season 8, when the Doctor and Clara both said good-bye by lying to each other. Except because the two really were friends, they both believed each other. The Doctor didn't trust Davros, but he had intended on showing a little mercy to him, anyway. (And I assume his plan consisted of "Miss and Clara better damn will rescue me or this is all going rubbish on me!")

 

[PorthosShadow]

OK for some reason the forum is busted. I could not quote Janeway Girl's post. It wouldn't let me.

Anyway yeah that kind of bugged me. I also thought Clara would have flashbacks to Souffle Girl...

Also the whole language thing is a cop out. Clara could talk properly in "Asylum" so what is the issue? Lazy writing?

OMG you're right! I forgot about that.

I guess logic really has left this series. Continuity is all screwy and it seems Moffat is just making things up as he goes along.

There is a big difference between the two situations. In AOTD she was forced to become a Dalek but still managed to hang onto her humanity. This time around, she volunteered (more or less) to interface with a Dalek casing. She only ever had access to it's most basic functions and unlike AOTD she wasn't part of the hive mind.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Missy was in the sewer, then only the Daleks will work with her because only the Daleks don't have noses.

The only other chair on Skaro bit is a Fatal Death injoke as well.

Of course the biggest 'Fatal Death' steal is the whole "I knew you were going to do that, so..." "Well I knew you were going to do that, so..." "Well I knew that you knew that I knew..." thing.

I really thought that when Clara climbed into the Dalek she would have had flashbacks of being Soufflé Girl.

But it's never been clear to me that Clara actually remembers any of those lives. Those people weren't the 'real' Clara - they were echo Claras, separate people who just had her personality and some sense that they had to save the Doctor and then died. I don't think it's ever been incontrovertibly established that current Clara remembers anything about those lives. In fact, to my mind, some of the lines from "The Name of the Doctor" heavily suggest that she doesn't.

Anyway yeah that kind of bugged me. I also thought Clara would have flashbacks to Souffle Girl...

Also the whole language thing is a cop out. Clara could talk properly in "Asylum" so what is the issue? Lazy writing?

OMG you're right! I forgot about that.

There is a big difference between the two situations. In AOTD she was forced to become a Dalek but still managed to hang onto her humanity. This time around, she volunteered (more or less) to interface with a Dalek casing. She only ever had access to it's most basic functions and unlike AOTD she wasn't part of the hive mind.

Porthos is right - that wasn't Clara, it was Oswin, and Oswin was a genius who was plugged into the Dalek hive mind. Clara is an ordinary girl who was riding a tank. The situations are not the same.

.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Was Oswin a natural genius, or was Oswin flooded with drugs/steroids and radiation, surgically corrected, and bionically enhanced to ramp up her intellect to minimum Dalek levels. Also, 90 percent of her brain was a mainframe built into the Dalek Chasis she was trapped inside.

My thoughts that no one ever agrees with.

Clara splintered.

Billions of Clara's leading complete lives lived and died. Some of her probably knew who they were, others had hints and urges, some probably just missed the point completely probably.

In the wake of this, the Doctor built himself a new Clara to replace the one he'd lost out of his memories of her etched onto his tombstone that was also his corpse which he was standing inside.

Did he glue the pieces together with regeneration energy or timelord corpse meat?

Would that make her Metacrisis or hybrid? (Same thing really.)

Is she a Watcher, or is Clara a future version of the Doctor forced into thinking that she is the Clara and not the Doctor.

Is Clara the Valeyard?

Trenzelor happened wrong.

The divergency between what happened and what didn't happen that shoud have supposed to have been is the skin he made Clara from.

Yup.

Deep down the Valeyard is riggling and wiggling inisde her.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I think my comments will largely mirror the rest, but this another solid episode. Very good, and better than the first in terms of plotting, but I liked the first one's pace better, I think. But nevertheless, it was quite fun and exciting. Capaldi's better than ever, and Davros' emotional manipulating of the Doctor was nicely done. The Missy/Clara scenes were surprisingly enjoyable, with Gomez easily surpassing Simm as the Master in her portrayal, for good.

And I see Moffat wants to dive into the Doctor's reason for leaving Gallifrey. A rather taboo subject throughout the entire show's history - should we learn about it, at this point?

 

[Guy Gardener]

It does seem impossible that Susan and the Doctor didn't know what a Dalek was, the first time they went to Skaro.

(I just had a giggle fit)

During one of the numerous Dalek Invasions over the last decade, do you think Ian ever looked up and thought "####! Those things can fly? I didn't see any flight controls when I was inside a casing pushing it around with my feet like a scooter."

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The only other chair on Skaro bit is a Fatal Death injoke as well.

Of course! I knew that felt familiar. Great gag.

Some of the Davros stuff revealed in this episode is odd. So, he really is a torso without legs at all? And his eyes work fine, he's just been keeping them closed all this time? And I couldn't help but be reminded of the Borg Queen upon seeing that cybernetic spinal chord hanging out of his body.

In regards to the eyes, I'm pretty sure The Doctor asked Davros about that and Davros said he created them from the Daleks.

The extended conversation between The Doctor and Davros was pretty griping, and while I had a hard time imagining Davros being portrayed as sympathetic, I did love the twist of Davros using The Doctor's compassion against him. Unfortunately, the second twist that The Doctor knew that he was up to no good comes off flat and takes away from the first one. Another case of Moffat trying to be a bit too clever. It mostly works but not as well as he might think it does.

I agree completely. It was a clever idea. In fact, we saw how a little while before, Davros identified the Doctor's
motivation for coming--compassion. And, then he promptly used it against him. Agree that the Doctor always knowing felt a bit flat and it detracted from the entire exchange before. Suddenly changed it from an interesting conversion to hollow. As you say, it mostly works but also shoots some of the scenes in the foot.

One the plus side, I thought Davros returning in Journey's End was mostly wasted. I don't think that's the case here. He was used effectively.

The callbacks to "Journey's End" is a large reason why I found that whole discussion and subsequent twisting on compassion so effective.

I know I'm in the minority on this, but I loved "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" and are a major reason for that was the effective use of Davros to point out The Doctor's flaw with compassion (as well as using his companions as weapons).

Missy was in the sewer, then only the Daleks will work with her because only the Daleks don't have noses.

The only other chair on Skaro bit is a Fatal Death injoke as well.

Of course the biggest 'Fatal Death' steal is the whole "I knew you were going to do that, so..." "Well I knew you were going to do that, so..." "Well I knew that you knew that I knew..." thing.

Ah, yes, another reason why that whole thing felt flat. It was great as a gag as Rowan Atkinson and Jonathan Pryce one upped each other, but it just doesn't work here. The first twist was brilliant, effective, and emotional. The second twist was a joke. A bad one.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

OK for some reason the forum is busted. I could not quote Janeway Girl's post. It wouldn't let me.

Anyway yeah that kind of bugged me. I also thought Clara would have flashbacks to Souffle Girl...

Also the whole language thing is a cop out. Clara could talk properly in "Asylum" so what is the issue? Lazy writing?

I was gonna say, why do you think they locked her up as the maddest Dalek of them all?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Was Oswin a natural genius, or was Oswin flooded with drugs/steroids and radiation, surgically corrected, and bionically enhanced to ramp up her intellect to minimum Dalek levels. Also, 90 percent of her brain was a mainframe built into the Dalek Chasis she was trapped inside.

My thoughts that no one ever agrees with.

Clara splintered.

Billions of Clara's leading complete lived and died. Some of her probably knew who they were, others had hints and urges, some probably just missed the point completely probably.

In the wake of this, the Doctor built himself a new Clara to replace the one he'd lost out of his memories of her etched onto his tombstone that was also his corpse which he was standing inside.

Did he glue the pieces together with regeneration energy or timelord corpse meat?

Would that make her Metacrisis or hybrid? (Same thing really.)

Is she a Watcher, or is Clara a future version of the Doctor forced into thinking that she is the Clara and not the Doctor.

Is Clara the Valeyard?

Trenzelor happened wrong.

The divergency between what happened and what didn't happen that shoud have supposed to have been is the skin he made Clara from.

Yup.

Deep down the Valeyard is riggling and wiggling inisde her.

So many random thoughts. I like this.

I thought I was insane for pointing out Missy's ring is the same one Donna had in the 4th series. Thought there might be some kind of connection.. What if Missy can fix Donna so she remembers and use that against the Doctor?