Inter-species Sex

[uniderth]

In much or Star Trek sex between different species is generally accepted and many times produces viable offspring. This is both in universe and among viewers. My question is, what make inter-species sex acceptable in some cases but not in others?

Why do people accept a human having sex with a Vulcan but not a human having sex with a dog?

It was suggested that intelligence is a distinguishing factor. That sex with different species as long as both are intelligent is acceptable.

The problem is the intelligence is difficult to quantify. There are many species on earth that are intelligent such as whales, dolphins, etc.

http://news.discovery.com/animals/top-10-most-intelligent-animals-150325.htm

Certainly other primates would qualify as intelligent.

We inter-species sex be found equally acceptable if the other intelligent species had the form of an octopus(ala Galaxy Quest) or perhaps a horta.

Perhaps the real reason is that these other species are largely similar in appearance to humans. They possess feature we find attractive. But then this seems fairly arbitrary.

Perhaps in the 23rd centuries there are no social or legal prohibitions against inter-species sex regardless of intelligence or appearance.

But also why do we as viewers say it's acceptable for a human to have sex with a species from another planet but not another species from this one.

The real issue I'd like to explore is not the acceptability of inter-species sex; but rather what defines our double standard(admittedly hypothetical because we know of no other species that look very similar to humans).

 

[T'Girl]

A dog lack the intellectual capacity to give consent.

 

[Kemaiku]

Sapience and Consent.

 

[Beawild]

It is assumed that the alien species with which humans would be having sex are of equal, or even superior, intelligence to humans. They would be free to consent to a relationship. How could that equate with having sex with a species from Earth? How could a dog, dolphin, etc. give consent? The reason why it's illegal in most countries it's because it's considered animal abuse.

 

[uniderth]

Animals giving consent. How do you even measure that? The idea of animals giving or withholding consent seems rather bizarre to me. What indicators would you use to determine consent? I guess that's why it seems like an invalid criteria. If you have no means of knowing if consent is given or not then consent cannot be a determining factor of behavior. To reverse the question how could a dog, dolphin, etc. withhold consent?

Either way there must be an assumed foundation and it seems like an odd bases to determine the "rightness" of an issue.

 

[hux]

You know a thread is gonna be good when it's about humans fucking animals.

The fact that any inter-breeding takes place in Trek isn't very realistic. I suppose you might be able to make a case for the species from "The Chase" but in general it's silly.

The suspension of disbelief contrivance in Trek is essentially that "human looking" bibedal species can breed with humans but weird and wacky looking species cannot.

Meh, fair enough.

 

[Kemaiku]

Which could be seen as the same as a situation with two humans were one is too intoxicated to communicate properly, leaving the other to not know if consent has been given.

You know how badly that ends up with humans, the court proceedings, the legal problems.

In other words, if both people involved cannot determine whether or not consent has been given, you shouldn't go ahead with anything until you can reasonably determine so.

Which with animals will be what, a few million years from now when they all master the full use of the English lanuage and understand human sexuality?

Assuming any of us are around at that point for it to matter.

Okay quick example here:

Spoiler: T/S

Both characters seen here can speak English, have an IQ of around 200 (more than the majority of people who have ever posted here), have excellent hygience and hold positions of some authority (royalty for the pony) or academic merit (graduate student for the human).

Since both speak a common language and are measurably above average intelligence by our academic standards, would you be okay with it?

And please make you answer worth everything else I had go through in googling that.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Sapience and Consent.

/Thread

 

[Kemaiku]

Sapience and Consent.

/Thread

Well, damn yes I already kind of finished it but I just posted another long post so don't clink it yet.

 

[Kilana2]

You know a thread is gonna be good when it's about humans fucking animals.

The fact that any inter-breeding takes place in Trek isn't very realistic. I suppose you might be able to make a case for the species from "The Chase" but in general it's silly.

The suspension of disbelief contrivance in Trek is essentially that "human looking" bibedal species can breed with humans but weird and wacky looking species cannot.

Meh, fair enough.

I'd like to know how a Kes/Neelix child would have looked like. Despite your dislike of such a notion.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

You know a thread is gonna be good when it's about humans fucking animals.

Sapience and Consent.

/Thread

Second post was close. Third post did it.

Animals giving consent. How do you even measure that? The idea of animals giving or withholding consent seems rather bizarre to me. What indicators would you use to determine consent? I guess that's why it seems like an invalid criteria. If you have no means of knowing if consent is given or not then consent cannot be a determining factor of behavior. To reverse the question how could a dog, dolphin, etc. withhold consent?

Either way there must be an assumed foundation and it seems like an odd bases to determine the "rightness" of an issue.

If you have no means of determining consent, you do not have consent.

 

[uniderth]

Sapience and Consent.

/Thread

With superficial discussion of the topic maybe so. But this concept of sapience and consent falls apart upon a more in depth examination.

What qualifies as consent? How "informed" does such consent need to be?

What is sapience? How do you objectively measure intelligence?

If you have no means of determining consent, you do not have consent.

But neither do you have a lack of consent. You have a situation where "consent" cannot be used as form of measurement. Therefore your determination must be made on some other basis.

You know how badly that ends up with humans, the court proceedings, the legal problems.

I think this is also a prime example of why the "sapience and consent" is not as cut and dry as it might seem.

If consent was so easy to determine then there wouldn't be any lengthy court proceedings and legal battles. It would be easy to tell whether consent was given.

 

[Kemaiku]

What qualifies as consent? How "informed" does such consent need to be?

Clear "Yes" = Okay.

Unclear = Stop.

 

[uniderth]

What qualifies as consent? How "informed" does such consent need to be?

Clear "Yes" = Okay.

Unclear = Stop.

So all that is required is to get a clear yes out of a hypothetical alien, even though they may not understand the complete situation?

Just to be clear we aren't talking about Mary-Ann down the road. We are talking about other species, even extraterrestrials.

 

[T'Girl]

Animals giving consent. How do you even measure that?

A good start would be if the object of your desire communicated their consent to you. If the two of can not communicate in some fashion, then you really shouldn't be screwing them.

And the alien species wouldn't have to be "equal or superior" the you in intelligence, an IQ in the 90's should be okay.

(Above their species legally recognized "sex okay" age, might want to check this too)

 

[Jedi_Master]

I'm not an expert on 24th century interspecies law, but I imagine that the Federation Civil Justice Code or what have you covers the legal definition of consent.

The Klingon Justice Code on the other hand is a bit simpler: "No broken bone? Stay out of the Neutral Zone."

 

[Jedi_Master]

If you have no means of determining consent, you do not have consent.

But neither do you have a lack of consent. You have a situation where "consent" cannot be used as form of measurement. Therefore your determination must be made on some other basis.

I'm not sure if I am comfortable with where your line of reasoning is going.

 

[uniderth]

It just seems a bit odd that people find sex with other species acceptable, under certain circumstances.

I'm not sure if I am comfortable with where your line of reasoning is going.

Considering this discussion is about human sexual interaction with other species, there is bound to be some discomfort.

The Klingon Justice Code on the other hand is a bit simpler: "No broken bone? Stay out of the Neutral Zone."

Hahaha. You win today.

 

[Jedi_Master]

It just seems a bit odd that people find sex with other species acceptable, under certain circumstances.

Most Star Trek fans don't get the heebie jeebies when they see an implied consensual sexual relationship between two or more adult humanoids. Once you wander outside those parameters, the level of comfort significantly drops, for obvious reasons.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Most Star Trek fans don't get the heebie jeebies when they see an implied consensual sexual relationship between two or more adult humanoids. Once you wander outside those parameters, the level of comfort significantly drops, for obvious reasons.

Lekku okay?