Fan Film Creation and Critique

[Amaris]

In other words they made a materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation?

I think they bolstered their abilities in an attempt to get more people to donate. Happens all of the time. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Well, portraying yourself positively in a way someone doesn't necessarily agree with is not the same thing as deliberately deceiving people into believing you could materially deliver something you couldn't. It probably matters which of those you are accusing them of.

I wasn't the one throwing out legal terms, BigJake. Now, I'm moving on from this particular point of discussion. You are free to do the same.

 

[fireproof78]

If you tell everyone you have a broadcast/series pilot quality production, and they drop money on it in the hopes that is what they'll get, then they should receive a broadcast/series pilot quality production. .

If you assume that nobody involved can be expected to exercise their reason and manage their expectations based on the actual financial resources available to a production, I guess. Except that we live in pretty much the precise opposite of that world, don't we? So the insistence gets to seem more bizarre rather than less.

I also know that fan film opinion can become quite entrenched, on both sides (at least on the Star Wars side of things) and sensitivity can be quite, um, sensitive, when it comes to productions.

Basically what I'm getting at is that if Karzak is actually complaining about being "censored" on threads where he underwent nothing worse than the occasional adverse comment and didn't receive so much as an infraction or a mod "friendly" -- as Maurice is surmising -- then I'm calling bullshit. I'm not seeing much grey area there.

Fair enough. I'm just saying, it exists on both sides.

 

[BigJake]

Now, I'm moving on from this particular point of discussion. You are free to do the same.

Yeah. See what I mean about the kind of black hole you go into with claims about "deception"? It's not something you should be doing lightly, is my point.

 

[fireproof78]

Now, I'm moving on from this particular point of discussion. You are free to do the same.

Yeah. See what I mean about the kind of black hole you go into with claims about "deception"? It's not something you should be doing lightly, is my point.

Perhaps it's more the emotion of feeling deceived, rather than an outright fraudulent act.

Wow, this thread went crazy in a hurry...

 

[BigJake]

Perhaps it's more the emotion of feeling deceived, rather than an outright fraudulent act.

Well, then that would be a case of feeling let down, not of specifically stating that you believed someone intentionally deceived their audience to get more money from them.

I mean, I'm marginally sure that you couldn't really sue anybody just for what J. said in this thread alone. A consistent pattern of published claims might be another matter, I'm not sure where Internet law has gotten to on that -- but the basic point is that trying to prove someone a liar about what they hoped to do is a massive black hole.

 

[Amaris]

Now, I'm moving on from this particular point of discussion. You are free to do the same.

Yeah. See what I mean about the kind of black hole you go into with claims about "deception"? It's not something you should be doing lightly, is my point.

Perhaps it's more the emotion of feeling deceived, rather than an outright fraudulent act.

Wow, this thread went crazy in a hurry...

That's all it was about; I felt deceived. I felt that they had made promises, and that they counted on those promises to help them raise money. For all I know, they may have thought they could pull it off, they kept making those big promises about studios and talking to the suits at CBS to have their film released as a TV ready pilot, but the end result did not match the promise, not by a long shot, and so I felt deceived by it. That's it.

 

[BigJake]

Out of curiosity, J., did you donate anything to Renegades?

Whatever the answer may be, basically my original point was that the threshold of "proving" someone was deceptive is high and is probably not worth bringing up if you can't furnish anything more than "I felt deceived." I might have felt deceived by claims that ST09 was "intelligent Trek," but I don't go around accusing Abrams of having set out to lie to me in hopes of getting my money, and that's the reason.

 

[fireproof78]

Perhaps it's more the emotion of feeling deceived, rather than an outright fraudulent act.

Well, then that would be a case of feeling let down, not of specifically stating that you believed someone intentionally deceived their audience to get more money from them.

I mean, I'm marginally sure that you couldn't really sue anybody just for what J. said in this thread alone. A consistent pattern of published claims might be another matter, I'm not sure where Internet law has gotten to on that -- but the basic point is that trying to prove someone a liar about what they hoped to do is a massive black hole.

It can't be both? I mean, I can feel deceived about a project's potential or whatnot (which is why I don't put forth money) and let down by the end result

As with other things, it is an emotional feeling, so not entirely provable. I can have a feeling that a person in the store I work at is a thief and may be stealing from the store, but I can't prove it-it's just a gut instinct.

Yeah. See what I mean about the kind of black hole you go into with claims about "deception"? It's not something you should be doing lightly, is my point.

Perhaps it's more the emotion of feeling deceived, rather than an outright fraudulent act.

Wow, this thread went crazy in a hurry...

That's all it was about; I felt deceived. I felt that they had made promises, and that they counted on those promises to help them raise money. For all I know, they may have thought they could pull it off, they kept making those big promises about studios and talking to the suits at CBS to have their film released as a TV ready pilot, but the end result did not match the promise, not by a long shot, and so I felt deceived by it. That's it.

This is a fun example of how words can mean many things to different people.

 

[BigJake]

fireproof78: If you're tempted to accuse someone of being a liar and have no proof of their being so beyond your "feelings," you should not accuse them. I'm willing to just state that right out as a general dictum.

 

[Amaris]

This is a fun example of how words can mean many things to different people.

Yep. Nothing to get worked up over. Just a feeling, one that many fans have towards many things.

 

[Taylirious]

In general I like to just enjoy what I watch and if I don't I just move on. I try not to pick apart and over analyze TV, movies or games whether they are professional or fan made. The energy seems best used in finding something else.

 

[Amaris]

In general I like to just enjoy what I watch and if I don't I just move on. I try not to pick apart and over analyze TV, movies or games whether they are professional or fan made. The energy seems best used in finding something else.

Nitpicking is a time honored nerd tradition.

 

[fireproof78]

If you're tempted to accuse someone of being a liar and have no proof of their being so beyond your "feelings," you should not accuse them. I'm willing to just state that right out as a general dictum.

I just read it as J. Allen expressing the feeling of deception at what Renegades said and did.

I don't think we crossed in to the line of bringing legal proof. I think we were talking about emotions and feelings of deception.

Maybe word choice wasn't right, or something, but I perhaps not call the lawyers yet.

Also, as a general rule, I don't accuse people of anything, for the most part. But, I'm also used to dealing with people and their emotions that don't come across in text very well.

 

[Amaris]

Not taking the piss, trolling, or anything, but now I want to see a Star Trek TV series or fan film based on the legal system. You know, like something based on Law & Order, but in space, and with a much better understanding of how technology works.

 

[fireproof78]

Not taking the piss, trolling, or anything, but now I want to see a Star Trek TV series or fan film based on the legal system. You know, like something based on Law & Order, but in space, and with a much better understanding of how technology works.

I'll start writing the pitch. Just need the era

 

[BigJake]

Not taking the piss, trolling, or anything, but now I want to see a Star Trek TV series or fan film based on the legal system. You know, like something based on Law & Order, but in space, and with a much better understanding of how technology works.

Now that's something I can get behind.

 

[Amaris]

Not taking the piss, trolling, or anything, but now I want to see a Star Trek TV series or fan film based on the legal system. You know, like something based on Law & Order, but in space, and with a much better understanding of how technology works.

Now that's something I can get behind.

Not taking the piss, trolling, or anything, but now I want to see a Star Trek TV series or fan film based on the legal system. You know, like something based on Law & Order, but in space, and with a much better understanding of how technology works.

I'll start writing the pitch. Just need the era

It has to be the movie era. Too much farther, and technology will solve everything. Too much sooner, and we get into the classic TOS tropes. Plus, I adore the movie era. One of the reasons I loved Star Trek VI was the whole mystery side of things (although I was pretty sure it was Old Man Jenkins, er, Valeris all along).

Remember, SFX mean very little if we don't have a cracking script!

 

[BigJake]

Everything needs to be rooted in the classical TOS era. I feel deceived by J.'s failure to mention the movie era.

 

[Taylirious]

I always thought an Elite Force fan film would be cool from a first person view with horror elements!

 

[Amaris]

Everything needs to be rooted in the classical TOS era. I feel deceived by J.'s failure to mention the movie era.

Technically, the movie is rooted in the classical TOS era. I have this idea for a pitch...

I always thought an Elite Force fan film would be cool from a first person view with horror elements!

I'm surprised someone hasn't tried that yet. More modern uniforms and props should be a bit easier to get, I'd think.