Star Trek: Renegades

[Karzak]

Ok, ok, ok... I tried to re-watch this tonight. I'm fifteen minutes in. Already there are problems. Between the god-awful, clunky design of the starships, the shitty CGI of the planets and cities, the ham-fisted dialogue, the nonsensical introduction with the poem, and the crap attitude Parker Lewis has about his ship ("Bucket of bolts!") I'm finally at the first real scene with Lexxa Singh and its just more lame, contrite shit. I'm still not sure WTF that first space battle was about and had difficulty tracking what was going on. Tuvok is behaving completely illogically and if Lexxa is supposed to be the heroine of the piece, I sure as shit don't see any reason why we're supposed to like her.

I don't think I want to waste any more of my evening watching this, but I do remember one scene from when I watched the film in June that I want to discuss. Later in the film, the villain and his son nearly come to blows over the son wanting to have "the right of first kill" (or whatever). The stilted, wooden dialogue of that scene:

SON: I claim the right of first kill! You denied me the last kill. Allow me this honor at least!
DAD: You do not yet possess the skills.
SON: You treat me as if I am a child yet I am as capable as anyone!
DAD: You question my judgment?
SON: Yes.
DAD: You have spirit! But spirit without discipline can have deadly consequences.
SON: (muttering) You will see who possesses the skills.

First of all, Seriously? Who wrote this shit?

Secondly, all I can think, now, as my eyes bleed while I watch this terrible film, just as I thought back when my eyes bled when I watched it in June, is that this piece of interaction is a nearly perfect microcosm of the attitude of the more sensitive members of the fan filmmaking community. The dad being anyone with any measureable experience in professional fillmmaking and the son being whatever sensitive soul with little to no experience who can't handle any kind of constructive criticism.

"You will see who possesses the skills" should be the mantra of this forum, honestly, given how butthurt people get when they don't get the adulation they seem to expect or believe they deserve. So if nothing else, Renegades has given us this untintentionally self-aware jewel of a tidbit, so I guess that's something.

Finally I think it's a pretty brazen move to slap on a crawl at the beginning asking people to go to their site to donate if they want a DVD or Blu-Ray. I get that these guys have been shameless with their self-promotion, but that just seems to me to be really poking the bear unnecessarily.

 

[Amaris]

Well said, and on point. I don't care for Lexxa, I don't even remember any of the other character names, because they didn't matter, not for a second. In my mind, they were nameless tropes. The acting was awful, but I'm sure people tried. The writing, now that was lazy, and if somebody tried and what we got was the end result, then being a writer is not for them.


If I had to sum up the quality of the film, it would be this:
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdw_RrzRRXY[/yt]

The film lacks subtlety, intelligent writing, coherent storyline, and competent editing. The CGI fire in the city near the beginning was really crappy, too.

 

[StarMan]

3:25 in.

I will try to keep going, guys.

Dear oh dear.

 

[Amaris]

3:25 in.

I will try to keep going, guys.

Dear oh dear.

I made it to the end. You can do it, too.

 

[Melakon]

The writing, now that was lazy, and if somebody tried and what we got was the end result, then being a writer is not for them.

IMDB lists 4 writers, one of them being Gene Roddenberry. The other 3 only seem to have fan film credits. I may be mistaken on that, since other fan films seem to be classified as "TV series".

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I did not like it.

My favorite performance was Sean Young's. I thought she was pretty good.

This was not remotely of the caliber of a network television pilot. That that wasn't evident on reading the script strains credibility.

 

[Maurice]

The writing, now that was lazy, and if somebody tried and what we got was the end result, then being a writer is not for them.

IMDB lists 4 writers, one of them being Gene Roddenberry. The other 3 only seem to have fan film credits. I may be mistaken on that, since other fan films seem to be classified as "TV series".

A lot of fan films list themselves as "TV series" but are debatably not.

 

[Amaris]

I wouldn't really list Renegades as a TV movie. It doesn't appear on TV at all, anywhere. It's a fan film made for downloaded distribution, and DVD/Blu-ray distribution. That said, IMDB has them with a listing of "TV Movie." Did I miss something?

 

[Melakon]

A lot of fan films list themselves as "TV series" but are debatably not.

Maybe they're hoping to eventually qualify for an Emmy, or union card certification.

 

[JoeZhang]

take this as true, why on earth (or the until federation of planets, im not sure how that expression works in the future) would the granddaughters come back, after grandpappy Cheko, mistakes her hand for a bomb?

Because it never happened - Old pappy/poppy/whatever was mumbling about a bomb and the bit where she phases off the hand - it's when his carer gives him his meds.

Notice how whenever Chekov does a beam-out nobody ever responds? Its because its actually the drugs kicking in and Chekov going to sleep.

Because they love Poppy, even if he's a bit deluded and reactionary.

Yes - it all fits - Chekov sees enemies only he can see, blue people who all look the same to him, from another land who want to steal our oil... I mean dilithium and he's convinced that if we don't kill them now via an illegal military operation they will try and immigrate... I mean attack the earth.

It's like the boatload of professional actors they managed to score were playing down to the acting skills of the rank fan amateurs in the cast. Pros are supposed to raise the quality of the piece, and it was Russ's job to make sure that happened.

I'm not aiming this at Renegades, but at the tendency in fan productions to put known name actors in their works. For those pros, who might have credits on Broadway, in films, and television, this must be a bit of a letdown for them, perhaps like the indignity of having to do the dinner theatre circuit just to make ends meet. Actors want to act, so it has to be psychologically depressing for them if all they can get is a gig in a fan film.

I mean, if you're going to pursue professional actors for a film, give them something that emphasizes their strengths as an actor, where they can do the kinds of scenes they want to do but never got a chance. Have them involved in rewriting their scenes if needed. Take advantage of their knowledge and advice. The experience should be as fun for them as it is the fans seeing them working again.

Renegades is maybe the second fan film I've seen but I thought the first (Star Trek Continues I think?) was more much consistent simply because all of the actors are basically of the same level and the script seemed to have much more work.

As for pro actors, I go backwards and forwards on it - if they want to do it, who are we to stop them?

However I think it can draw you out of a show as much as pull you in. You have Sean Young and Robert Picardo doing pretty average performances (for them) but they look like Oscar winning roles because of the juxtaposition with some of the non-pros who are as expressive as my office table. So I think pros often make a show *worse* than better.

 

[northstar]

One can only wonder - if watching it is so painful, why do you self-proclaimed critics do it? Why do you even waste more time thinking and writing about it? What is your goal? You won´t change the movie, you won´t change any future fan movie because of your ramblings. It´s really strange. It´s like drinking your own poison and expecting to feel better.

 

[Maurice]

One can only wonder - if watching it is so painful, why do you self-proclaimed critics do it? Why do you even waste more time thinking and writing about it? What is your goal? You won´t change the movie, you won´t change any future fan movie because of your ramblings. It´s really strange. It´s like drinking your own poison and expecting to feel better.

One can only wonder - if reading these critiques is so painful, why do you do it? Why do you even waste more time criticizing the critics? What is your goal? You won´t change their minds, you won´t change any future critiques because of your ramblings. It´s really strange. It´s like drinking your own poison and expecting to feel better.

 

[Amaris]

Yes - it all fits - Chekov sees enemies only he can see, blue people who all look the same to him, from another land who want to steal our oil... I mean dilithium and he's convinced that if we don't kill them now via an illegal military operation they will try and immigrate... I mean attack the earth.

Of course! Now it all makes sense! To the meatloaf!

One can only wonder - if watching it is so painful, why do you self-proclaimed critics do it? Why do you even waste more time thinking and writing about it? What is your goal? You won´t change the movie, you won´t change any future fan movie because of your ramblings. It´s really strange. It´s like drinking your own poison and expecting to feel better.

Who proclaimed themselves a critic? That's what "self-proclaimed critics" means. I watched the film, because I wanted it to be good, and I hoped that it would be good. I had some misgivings from the trailer, but I figured it would only be fair if I gave it a full shot.

I hated the film. I then explained why I hated the film. Some other people said they hated the film, and then they explained why they hated the film. Some people enjoyed the film, and they have not been silenced in any way, nor have they been told to be quiet or abstain from commenting.

So far, however, it seems the general feeling in this thread is that the film did rather poorly. That being the case, there will be more discussion on just what went wrong, rather than what went right. It is a good opportunity for the Renegades crew to look at the comments, especially the suggestions coming from the more professional critiques, and say "maybe we shouldn't do it that way again."

Me? I'm just complaining about a film that I wanted to be great, but wasn't. That's what people do here on this Star Trek message board, they talk about Star Trek, and not all of it in positive, glowing praise. Such is the nature of things.

The complaining will proceed according to schedule.

 

[Amaris]

Maurice's riposte was better.

Also, I would have simply edited my post, but the board's doing that weird blank quote/edit thing again. Time to dash off to the QS&F forum.

 

[SPCTRE]

One can only wonder - if watching it is so painful, why do you self-proclaimed critics do it? Why do you even waste more time thinking and writing about it? What is your goal? You won´t change the movie, you won´t change any future fan movie because of your ramblings. It´s really strange. It´s like drinking your own poison and expecting to feel better.

One can only wonder - if reading these critiques is so painful, why do you do it? Why do you even waste more time criticizing the critics? What is your goal? You won´t change their minds, you won´t change any future critiques because of your ramblings. It´s really strange. It´s like drinking your own poison and expecting to feel better.

 

[tenmei]

I was really looking forward to this - it looked interesting. I really wish I hadn't got my hopes up. It was, for want of a singular encapsulating descriptive - rubbish.

It had a great concept - but the acting was shoddy, the editing was shoddy and, by and large, the plot was loose and disjointed and the characters numerous and largely boring. The cast was simply too big and too many of them were given very little to do - the change of mind by the crew about participating in the mission was all down to one hardly impassioned speech and suddenly everyone's onboard, the Cardassian character suddenly pops up on the Icarus with no real reason why he's been brought along and we're given no real reason to like him, or the Bajoran.

The only character who came across reasonably well was Doc and, possibly, Fixer - but even then, I know the actors can do better with better material.

I'm just very disappointed.

 

[northstar]

Quoting doesn´t seem to work anymore on this board.

Maurice: Touche! But it really doesn´t answer my question.

Critizing is easy, doing it is hard. I was wondering if any one of the experts in script writing has actually offered their help in any of the productions (Renegades, Axanar, NV, STC, ...) and if so, with what result?

 

[Jay]

No offense to Maurice (especially because I agree with him and think he has a good eye for what makes something work) it's not as if he has an IMDB page that rings out "here is a well-sold script writer who has Emmy and Oscar nominations under his belt." Heck, I see a fan film, mostly video games, and a couple of other things I've never heard of.

1) Maurice has been writing and updating the Fan Film Writer's Primer and the Fan Filmmaker's Primer for years. There's not a shred of advice or content in there that isn't worth reading, re-reading, and learning if you want to make a film. All the more frustrating is how readily all of that information, from the benefit of his experience in his career is so freely and readily available yet so many in the fan filmmaking world who post here curiously just ignore it.

I wasn't dissing him, I was saying why they might not listen to him (come here, see his comments, and not take them to heart. They probably think they know better).

 

[Trekkin]

This thread was designed purely for feedback, wasn't it? And the people from Renegades said they wanted it. If they go forward with sequels (and if they want to, then I'm hardly going to discourage them) the hope is that they'll learn from all this. Keep the stuff people liked ( there is feedback that's both positive and not the 'blindly praising' variety), and tweak or ditch the major concerns.

I did find Renegades better than Gods and Men, and I can see the potential for good things from them. They just need to keep striving for improvement.

I do find it commendable that none of the people involved have shown up and chucked a public snit about their under-appreciated genius. There's still time for it and it probably should just be the expected behaviour, but it's always encouraging to see.

 

[BillJ]

Quoting doesn´t seem to work anymore on this board.

Maurice: Touche! But it really doesn´t answer my question.

Critizing is easy, doing it is hard. I was wondering if any one of the experts in script writing has actually offered their help in any of the productions (Renegades, Axanar, NV, STC, ...) and if so, with what result?

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=133417