Psychic Abilities For Humans?

[BeatleJWOL]

It's interesting that both Khan Noonian Singh and Gary Mitchell appear to have eidetic memory and perfect recall, yet only Mitchell is deemed to be an esper.

Not sure if Khan's recall and memory are that perfect, or just superior.

Still, can you imagine Khan going through the barrier? YIKES

 

[MantaBase]

Well, back to the original question since I in part derailed it. I bring this up with some embarrassment (because I am not very good at it), but I do some fiction writing including sci-fi (not at a level to call myself a writer).

I don't think I would include human psychics in a story outside of them being an anomaly or maybe as part of a very "special" very small group. It's easier to go with aliens...and even then I suspect I would stop at empaths (but not the Troy type). The issue for me is multi-fold.

First, humans (us) tend to have poor views of human psychics. Putting aside the issue of if they even exist, our culture (generally) views them as charlatans of freaks (and I mean no offense to anyone). In Sci-Fi they are often portrayed as very flawed or even bad folks. I think our cultural view of them (or the concept) is part of that. Even looking how they were treated in B5 - they were shady. They work better in fantasy IMO. Or aliens are more believable. Even thinking how I would write one into a story believably, I end up with a trite character of limited use. Unless of course I make a small band of them.....I think I could do that maybe.

Second, is the human condition. A lot of what make Sci-fi interesting is how it explores the human condition. Most readers may not catch it, but it is there. Can you imagine how boring Star Wars would have been if it were just about Solo and Chewy zipping around running from bounty hunters - never evolving - day in and day out? (OK, they are not human...but you get the point I hope). There needs to be some evolution/exploration of the human condition. If you make "humanity" in a story too far from what we are now without some serious background and justification, it becomes too hard to relate. There is actually a book series I have read where there is basically no plot. But they are interesting to read because you want to follow how the main character evolves.

Lastly, and someone already said this and I disagreed with their reason but I agree with the premise, it's too easy and leads to story holes. If "Jeb" can see through walls on page 8 when the story needs it, then on page 57 when the story is better served without that ability, there has to be a contrivance. And too many of those make for hard reading. And if "Jeb" meets with dozens of wall during the story....it's a problem.

Anyways. That's my uneducated opinion on that, but it might explain the issue.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

Well, back to the original question since I in part derailed it. I bring this up with some embarrassment (because I am not very good at it), but I do some fiction writing including sci-fi (not at a level to call myself a writer).

I don't think I would include human psychics in a story outside of them being an anomaly or maybe as part of a very "special" very small group. It's easier to go with aliens...and even then I suspect I would stop at empaths (but not the Troy type). The issue for me is multi-fold.

First, humans (us) tend to have poor views of human psychics. Putting aside the issue of if they even exist, our culture (generally) views them as charlatans of freaks (and I mean no offense to anyone). In Sci-Fi they are often portrayed as very flawed or even bad folks. I think our cultural view of them (or the concept) is part of that. Even looking how they were treated in B5 - they were shady. They work better in fantasy IMO. Or aliens are more believable. Even thinking how I would write one into a story believably, I end up with a trite character of limited use. Unless of course I make a small band of them.....I think I could do that maybe.

Second, is the human condition. A lot of what make Sci-fi interesting is how it explores the human condition. Most readers may not catch it, but it is there. Can you imagine how boring Star Wars would have been if it were just about Solo and Chewy zipping around running from bounty hunters - never evolving - day in and day out? (OK, they are not human...but you get the point I hope). There needs to be some evolution/exploration of the human condition. If you make "humanity" in a story too far from what we are now without some serious background and justification, it becomes too hard to relate. There is actually a book series I have read where there is basically no plot. But they are interesting to read because you want to follow how the main character evolves.

Lastly, and someone already said this and I disagreed with their reason but I agree with the premise, it's too easy and leads to story holes. If "Jeb" can see through walls on page 8 when the story needs it, then on page 57 when the story is better served without that ability, there has to be a contrivance. And too many of those make for hard reading. And if "Jeb" meets with dozens of wall during the story....it's a problem.

Anyways. That's my uneducated opinion on that, but it might explain the issue.

Indeed. As Pauln6 pointed out upthread, Miranda Jones is believable as a telepath because she doesn't read others' minds with pinpoint accuracy. She doesn't know who is thinking of murder; she only knows that someone is. Spock's case is a bit more problematic. In theory, with his melding abilities, he should have been able to divine almost everyone's intentions immediately once he made physical contact. For instance, in "Journey to Babel," quite a bit of the plot would have been unnecessary had Spock melded with Shras and thus discovered the latter's true identity as an Orion spy.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

Random questions: Given the initial form of the Companion in "Metamorphosis," can a case be made that the merged entity is both human and psychic (i.e., empathic)? Also, might the Companion be considered an outsized version of an aura?

 

[Christopher]

Random questions: Given the initial form of the Companion in "Metamorphosis," can a case be made that the merged entity is both human and psychic (i.e., empathic)?

Probably not, because the Companion evidently gave up her powers when she merged with Hedford, becoming an ordinary mortal human.

Also, it was never stated in the episode that the Companion was telepathic or empathic. She had some undefined way of "communing" with Cochrane and sensing his state of mind, but actual communication wasn't possible without the Universal Translator to interpret. The Companion was explicitly described as largely electrical in nature, so her ability to sense Cochrane's mental state was probably more encephalographic than "psychic."

 

[LadyT'Anna]

The Companion was explicitly described as largely electrical in nature, so her ability to sense Cochrane's mental state was probably more encephalographic than "psychic."

Which implies that a physiological process was taking place at the time. I'm reminded of Spock's initial description of melding in "Dagger of the Mind":

SPOCK: It could be dangerous. Do you understand? It requires I make pressure changes in your nerves, your blood vessels.
GELDER: You must open my mind. Let me warn you and explain to you.
SPOCK: This will not affect you, Doctor McCoy, only the person I touch. It is not hypnosis.
MCCOY: I understand. (Spock puts his hands on Gelder's face) Good, the reading's levelling.
SPOCK: You begin to feel a strange euphoria. Your body floats.
GELDER: Yes, I begin to feel it.
SPOCK: Open your mind. We move together. Our minds sharing the same thoughts.

That exchange appears to demonstrate that psychic phenomena can indeed have physiological components. Seen in that light, the Companion could be viewed as something of an empath, at least in her initial form.

Interesting.

 

[T'Girl]

First, humans (us) tend to have poor views of human psychics.

I've seen somewhat the opposite in my travels, guessing it would depend on what part of society you move through.

If "Jeb" can see through walls on page 8 when the story needs it, then on page 57 when the story is better served without that ability, there has to be a contrivance.

Basically Geordi LaForge and his visor, it's abilities change episode to episode. Maybe it was receiving periodic upgrades?

Also, it was never stated in the episode that the Companion was telepathic or empathic. She had some undefined way of "communing" with Cochrane and sensing his state of mind, but actual communication wasn't possible without the Universal Translator to interpret.

When Cochrane asked the Companion if it could cure Hedford, that was a fairly specific question.

.

 

[Zaminhon]

Pauln6[/B] pointed out upthread, Miranda Jones is believable as a telepath because she doesn't read others' minds with pinpoint accuracy. She doesn't know who is thinking of murder; she only knows that someone is. Spock's case is a bit more problematic. In theory, with his melding abilities, he should have been able to divine almost everyone's intentions immediately once he made physical contact. For instance, in "Journey to Babel," quite a bit of the plot would have been unnecessary had Spock melded with Shras and thus discovered the latter's true identity as an Orion spy.

I think the show was clear that Spock can send "suggestions" at a distance however to mind meld he needs to apply the proper pressure points, it's just not a matter of physical contact such as a handshake. We really don't see Spock use it as an interrogation method because I think the other party has to be willing and because it's such a personal experience.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

I think the show was clear that Spock can send "suggestions" at a distance however to mind meld he needs to apply the proper pressure points, it's just not a matter of physical contact such as a handshake. We really don't see Spock use it as an interrogation method because I think the other party has to be willing and because it's such a personal experience.

Hm. From what I understand, Valeris is an unwilling participant in a meld, but I gather that's the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Tim Walker]

I don't think I would include human psychics in a story outside of them being an anomaly or maybe as part of a very "special" very small group. It's easier to go with aliens...and even then I suspect I would stop at empaths (but not the Troy type).

Second, is the human condition. A lot of what make Sci-fi interesting is how it explores the human condition. Most readers may not catch it, but it is there. If you make "humanity" in a story too far from what we are now without some serious background and justification, it becomes too hard to relate.


.

Indeed. As Pauln6 pointed out upthread, Miranda Jones is believable as a telepath because she doesn't read others' minds with pinpoint accuracy. She doesn't know who is thinking of murder; she only knows that someone is.

I agree, a human with a limited version of ESP can be an interesting character. This is something that definitely can work well in a Trek story.

On the other hand, if a being becomes extremely powerful, like a Mitchell or an Ironheart (or a Q), their existence makes story telling problematic at best, outside of a very few plots.

 

[Kor]

It's subspace. Telekinesis and telepathy work via subspace through some as-yet undiscovered mechanism in the brain.

Yeah, subspace is the answer to everything.

And for some reason this discussion reminds me of "luck" being treated as a real thing (a manifestation of sub-conscious psionic ability?) in Larry Niven's works.

Kor

 

[Timo]

Probably not, because the Companion evidently gave up her powers when she merged with Hedford, becoming an ordinary mortal human.

It's difficult to tell, though. For all we know, the Companion completely displaced Hedford and just had fun with her now-repaired body for a while - then moved to another one when this one (and/or Cochrane's) wore out, or reverted to the cloud form.

From what I understand, Valeris is an unwilling participant in a meld, but I gather that's the exception rather than the rule.

Actually, in the adventures of Spock and the other heroes, unwilling or at least unhelpful participants seem the norm. Indeed, Valeris is probably the only recipient who could have been actively willing - that is, the only Vulcan that Spock ever melded with!

In the life of the average Vulcan, consensual (and just plain sensual) melds are probably far more common, though.

And for some reason this discussion reminds me of "luck" being treated as a real thing (a manifestation of sub-conscious psionic ability?) in Larry Niven's works.

Those, and DS9 "Rivals"...

Timo Saloniemi