Fixing the Films (JJ edition).
- Thread starter Phantom
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I personally think that the films are fine as is, minus some minor nitpicks, but if I was to rewrite STID, this is how I'd do it.
Opening sequence is almost exactly the same. I wouldn't mind a throwaway line about the Volcano disrupting the transporter, and Kirk wanting the Enterprise close by to conduct shuttle ops during the operation, as justification for her being hidden underwater. I get completely why that scene was done the way it was. You can only do the cliche beauty shot of the Enterprise in space so many times. I think it being different made is memorable, and it should be kept.
Harrison uses research from Section 31 to heal the girl, and to coerce the Starfleet officer to blow up the archive. The whole regenerative blood concept is dropped.
Kirk gets in trouble with Pike as happens in the film, and Spock is reassigned. Harrison attacks the conference, but Pike is NOT killed, however the Captain of Spock's new ship is. Kirk, Pike and Spock go to Marcus to get permission to go after Khan like in the movie. Pike asks for Spock back on the Enterprise, and Marcus agrees. Kirk is now Pikes XO on the Enterprise.
The scene with Scotty and the torpedoes is similar. He hands in his resignation to Kirk and Pike. Pike is wary about the torpedoes as well, but he trusts his friend Marcus, and Kirk follows him. The Enterprise heads to Kronos, but is sabotaged like in the film. However, the ship dropping out of warp so quickly causes a lot more damage, and Pike is injured and unconscious. Kirk takes over and decides to do the landing party. Sulu hides the Enterprise in the debris of the damaged Klingon moon to avoid detection. The Kronos sequence happens on the surface just like in the movie.
The Enterprise sneakily departs Kronos after the warp drive is temporarily fixed. Harrison convinces Kirk to pop open a torpedo. They find an abandoned moon. Finds the cryo chambers. The Khan reveal happens. Scotty finds the Section 31 dockyard. Kirk consults with an injured, but now conscious Pike. Pike is furious he disobeyed orders, but realizes Kirk made the right call by not using the torpedoes and is questions Marcus's motivation. NOW is when the Vengeance shows up. Marcus apologizes to Kirk and Pike, and wants them to hand over Khan. Kirk decides to make a run for Earth with Pikes blessing. The Vengeance detects the Enterprise's warp drive spinning up, and fires, and the warp battle in the film occurs in normal space in my version. Scotty disables the Vengeance, and the Enterprise is badly damaged. Kirk and Khan make the space jump to the Vengeance. This sequence happens just like the movie. Khan betrays them, kills Marcus, beams Kirk and company back to the Enterprise.
The Vengeance starts firing on the Enterprise again and Spock does the torpedo trick trying to disable her. With the last bit of power the Enterprise has, Spock orders a warp jump to Earth, so they can reveal Marcus and Section 31. The Vengeance pursues. The Enterprise drops out of warp, and instantly looses power due to to the damage she has sustained, and falls into Earth's gravity. Kirk and Scotty go to fix the warp core, but Pike joins them. It is Pike, not Kirk, who makes the climb to fix the core. Kirk and Spock have their last moments with Pike, in a variation of TWOK, and Pike dies for his ship. Kirk and Spock's friendship is strengthened with their mutual loss and mourning. The damaged Vengeance, shows up, and crashes into San Francisco. Kirk and Spock beam down to the city to capture Khan. The are both disabled in the fighting. Uhura beams down like in the movie to finish Khan off.
Kirk is given back the Enterprise, and is a much more mature commander, after realizing what Pike would give to protect his ship. They head out on the five year mission.
Opening sequence is almost exactly the same. I wouldn't mind a throwaway line about the Volcano disrupting the transporter, and Kirk wanting the Enterprise close by to conduct shuttle ops during the operation, as justification for her being hidden underwater. I get completely why that scene was done the way it was. You can only do the cliche beauty shot of the Enterprise in space so many times. I think it being different made is memorable, and it should be kept.
Harrison uses research from Section 31 to heal the girl, and to coerce the Starfleet officer to blow up the archive. The whole regenerative blood concept is dropped.
Kirk gets in trouble with Pike as happens in the film, and Spock is reassigned. Harrison attacks the conference, but Pike is NOT killed, however the Captain of Spock's new ship is. Kirk, Pike and Spock go to Marcus to get permission to go after Khan like in the movie. Pike asks for Spock back on the Enterprise, and Marcus agrees. Kirk is now Pikes XO on the Enterprise.
The scene with Scotty and the torpedoes is similar. He hands in his resignation to Kirk and Pike. Pike is wary about the torpedoes as well, but he trusts his friend Marcus, and Kirk follows him. The Enterprise heads to Kronos, but is sabotaged like in the film. However, the ship dropping out of warp so quickly causes a lot more damage, and Pike is injured and unconscious. Kirk takes over and decides to do the landing party. Sulu hides the Enterprise in the debris of the damaged Klingon moon to avoid detection. The Kronos sequence happens on the surface just like in the movie.
The Enterprise sneakily departs Kronos after the warp drive is temporarily fixed. Harrison convinces Kirk to pop open a torpedo. They find an abandoned moon. Finds the cryo chambers. The Khan reveal happens. Scotty finds the Section 31 dockyard. Kirk consults with an injured, but now conscious Pike. Pike is furious he disobeyed orders, but realizes Kirk made the right call by not using the torpedoes and is questions Marcus's motivation. NOW is when the Vengeance shows up. Marcus apologizes to Kirk and Pike, and wants them to hand over Khan. Kirk decides to make a run for Earth with Pikes blessing. The Vengeance detects the Enterprise's warp drive spinning up, and fires, and the warp battle in the film occurs in normal space in my version. Scotty disables the Vengeance, and the Enterprise is badly damaged. Kirk and Khan make the space jump to the Vengeance. This sequence happens just like the movie. Khan betrays them, kills Marcus, beams Kirk and company back to the Enterprise.
The Vengeance starts firing on the Enterprise again and Spock does the torpedo trick trying to disable her. With the last bit of power the Enterprise has, Spock orders a warp jump to Earth, so they can reveal Marcus and Section 31. The Vengeance pursues. The Enterprise drops out of warp, and instantly looses power due to to the damage she has sustained, and falls into Earth's gravity. Kirk and Scotty go to fix the warp core, but Pike joins them. It is Pike, not Kirk, who makes the climb to fix the core. Kirk and Spock have their last moments with Pike, in a variation of TWOK, and Pike dies for his ship. Kirk and Spock's friendship is strengthened with their mutual loss and mourning. The damaged Vengeance, shows up, and crashes into San Francisco. Kirk and Spock beam down to the city to capture Khan. The are both disabled in the fighting. Uhura beams down like in the movie to finish Khan off.
Kirk is given back the Enterprise, and is a much more mature commander, after realizing what Pike would give to protect his ship. They head out on the five year mission.
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^ That would have worked too, but I think Pike dying LATER would have sucked some of the energy out of the "Vengeance" angle of the film.
OTOH, they sort of dropped the "Vengeance" theme anyway, and it would have been VERY nice to see Kirk acting as Pike's XO/Understudy one last time before taking the Enterprise on its own.
OTOH, they sort of dropped the "Vengeance" theme anyway, and it would have been VERY nice to see Kirk acting as Pike's XO/Understudy one last time before taking the Enterprise on its own.
I actually thought his fate in STID was still way better than what he got in "The Menagerie." But maybe that's just because I feel like there's something really depressing and dehumanizing about leaving Pike to live out the rest of his life as the psychic plaything of a bunch of psychopaths just because it's better than being an invalid.
What Spock SHOULD have done was taken Pike to Sargon's planet or the Shore Leave planet or taken him to visit Flint or used the medical knowledge of Yonada to heal his injuries. Exiling him to Talos, in hindsight, seems like the median of 12 evils and a shortfall from what might have been an ideal solution.
The issue with your suggestions above is that Spock knew none of these things at the time of "The Menagerie." And do we really know the Talosians treated him as a plaything? The keeper says:
That doesn't sound to me like being a plaything. By the end of "The Cage," the Talosians respected Captain Pike. They were hurt by his loss. The love of his life was also there, also disabled and living a life of illusion. Who's to say, while they want to rebuild their planet, they didn't also respect him in the time he spent there?
I hated Pike's fate in Into Darkness. A celebrated character like Chris Pike gunned down with no chance to fight back. That's not the Pike you see in "The Cage" or Star Trek 2009. Granted, I will admit his death served a very important plot purpose for both Kirk and Spock. But I think he deserved better.
I will admit though, Chris Pike has always fascinated me as a character.
That doesn't sound to me like being a plaything. By the end of "The Cage," the Talosians respected Captain Pike. They were hurt by his loss. The love of his life was also there, also disabled and living a life of illusion. Who's to say, while they want to rebuild their planet, they didn't also respect him in the time he spent there?
I hated Pike's fate in Into Darkness. A celebrated character like Chris Pike gunned down with no chance to fight back. That's not the Pike you see in "The Cage" or Star Trek 2009. Granted, I will admit his death served a very important plot purpose for both Kirk and Spock. But I think he deserved better.
I will admit though, Chris Pike has always fascinated me as a character.
I'm not a big fan of 'The Cage' and 'The Menagerie'. I think I've seen and read too much science fiction which advocates for the exact opposite sentiment - including Generations.
Plus, there's unfortunate implications all over the place. You're physically disabled and ugly! You might as well literally do nothing but daydream away for the rest of your life! Coz it's not like you could ever be happy or find ways to contribute to the world, nooooo....
And it kind of is a zoo. A zoo in the same way that animal preserves are a zoo. Pike is going to spend the rest of his existence in an artificial environment, that he can never leave, and is completely controlled by others in order to 'help' him. Which is...whatever in the context (he did choose it after all), but it's understandable why some people in the audience are leery of it.
I don't like that Pike died. But then again, I don't like it when any likeable character dies. He does have some bragging rights though. 'It took Khan Noonien Singh in a gunship to take me down!' Better than falling down a gorge whilst trying to find a remote (check the cushions!) at any rate.
Plus, there's unfortunate implications all over the place. You're physically disabled and ugly! You might as well literally do nothing but daydream away for the rest of your life! Coz it's not like you could ever be happy or find ways to contribute to the world, nooooo....
And it kind of is a zoo. A zoo in the same way that animal preserves are a zoo. Pike is going to spend the rest of his existence in an artificial environment, that he can never leave, and is completely controlled by others in order to 'help' him. Which is...whatever in the context (he did choose it after all), but it's understandable why some people in the audience are leery of it.
I don't like that Pike died. But then again, I don't like it when any likeable character dies. He does have some bragging rights though. 'It took Khan Noonien Singh in a gunship to take me down!' Better than falling down a gorge whilst trying to find a remote (check the cushions!) at any rate.
STID: Drop the whole Khan thing. Have John Harrison as a highly intelligent human from the 23rd century who has become disenfranchised with Federation society due to something tragic in his own past, which sees him utilising advanced technology he developed to exact his revenge.
From both films: No Spock/Uhura.
From both films: No Spock/Uhura.
As I've said many times, transwarp beaming isn't at all universe-changing. It doesn't even seem to be all that difficult to do, considering the Ferengi independently developed the same technology in the late 24th century without the benefit of Scotty's genius.
And then there's this asshole:
Plus, this guy with his time/space transporter:
Joachim should get an honorary mention on that list. And Khan himself I guess.
SNIP!
To be fair, how many able-bodied people would want to live in a state of illusions, where all your emotional needs are met? Remember Reginald Barclay in TNG, and how he was addicted to the holodeck? I think it is safe to say that there are plenty of people, able-bodied or otherwise, who would sacrifice their freedom for happiness...
Except for Picard in the nexus.
Actually, what Hela posted was very thought-provoking to me. I'll never think of the episode and what Spock does the same way, again.
That said, I don't think Pike's situation in "The Menagerie" stands the test of time. Given that Stephen Hawking (and others in similar situations as him) can communicate normally and even brilliantly just by moving their eyes, the idea that the best 23rd century medicine and technology can do for poor Christopher Pike (whose mind is completely sound) is put him in a chair where all he can do is make a light beep "yes" or "no" is just plain silly.
Here's what I'd fix, in broad strokes:
ST'09: Have a "X"-years later sort of bridge before promoting Kirk to captain of Enterprise. Could almost use the promotion scene as filmed, just add in a few more off-screen heroics.
STID: minor change - echo the statement above about a single throwaway line about transporters not working well on Nibiru; major change - I'd have finished the movie with Kirk and Khan needing to continue to work together to defeat Marcus somehow, and end it with Khan having played the good guy, I think that would have been a more interesting take on the character (and have been as unexpected for the audience as destroying Vulcan in '09).
ST'09: Have a "X"-years later sort of bridge before promoting Kirk to captain of Enterprise. Could almost use the promotion scene as filmed, just add in a few more off-screen heroics.
STID: minor change - echo the statement above about a single throwaway line about transporters not working well on Nibiru; major change - I'd have finished the movie with Kirk and Khan needing to continue to work together to defeat Marcus somehow, and end it with Khan having played the good guy, I think that would have been a more interesting take on the character (and have been as unexpected for the audience as destroying Vulcan in '09).
A suggestion to correct the idea of the Red Matter. Have it be the ignition source for the Romulan artificial singularities. Not only does that already exist, but it also makes it something that would be around Romulas to begin with. Problem solved. Spock just decides to use it in a massive quality to stop the supernova and stuff happens. Temporal wormholes and Romulans have happened before as well...."Yesterday's Enterprise"?
Interesting responses. There were some things that bothered me and some that didn't. I would generally just tweak things a bit.
I really like the idea of red matter being a variant of the Genesis device instead. More subtle homage than the ones we got lol.
In Trek 09 I would have built the Enterprise in space and just have Kirk view it via a shuttle as a nod to the TMP flyby.
I would have featured Number One and featured Spock as a more junior officer temporarily promoted to first officer for the mission while Number One captains a different ship. This removes some of the stupidity of promoting Kirk over Spock on his first day.
I would have featured Rand as Pike's security-trained yeoman to even up the gender numbers instead of Chekov (who I'd have at his Prime age in a cameo at the academy if at all). I would have beamed Kirk to Delta Vega with Rand as a security escort and have them meet Spock Prime in the base to avoid some of the absurdity of meeting in a random cave.
I would then require them to work together to modify equipment to make the transporter function including gratuitous monster scene outside and then melt the equipment down after one use. This has the net effect of reducing the maximum range the transporter has to work, limiting the time Nero has to get away, makes the transporter a single use for emergency plot requirements, and foreshadows Rand potentially becoming transporter chief.
I would have sent across a fully-qualified boarding party including McCoy, Uhura, and security to complete the mission on the Narada.
I would have shown Kirk and Spock receiving a commendations with a cocky comment about how long it will take him to get his first command and then fast forward the final scene to show him stepping onto the bridge in a year's time.
For STiD I would probably have used Garth instead of Khan, adjusting the narrative to fit (Garth was altered by aliens and was pretty nuts so the plot could be adjusted with minimal tweaks and we would be spared Spock shrieking. What's more, since the alterations to Garth drove him nuts, using his blood to help Kirk has potential side effects that can be revisited in the future.
I agree that I would not have placed the starship on the planet's surface - she belongs in space. The shuttle would have worked just fine.
I would have used Chapel in her role as a research biologist rather than a nurse to help McCoy work out what Garth's alterations were.
I would not have promoted Chekov to chief engineer. At most I would have sent him to engineering as liaison to the replacement engineer.
I would have at the very least avoided a full frontal of Carol or at worse, made them both undress to get into suits while carrying on their conversation without any implied smut except maybe a nervous sideways glance from Kirk.
I think for the final scene I would have at least come up with a plausible reason why Earth's defences couldn't react to the crashing ship - prefix code or some similar nonsense.
I really like the idea of red matter being a variant of the Genesis device instead. More subtle homage than the ones we got lol.
In Trek 09 I would have built the Enterprise in space and just have Kirk view it via a shuttle as a nod to the TMP flyby.
I would have featured Number One and featured Spock as a more junior officer temporarily promoted to first officer for the mission while Number One captains a different ship. This removes some of the stupidity of promoting Kirk over Spock on his first day.
I would have featured Rand as Pike's security-trained yeoman to even up the gender numbers instead of Chekov (who I'd have at his Prime age in a cameo at the academy if at all). I would have beamed Kirk to Delta Vega with Rand as a security escort and have them meet Spock Prime in the base to avoid some of the absurdity of meeting in a random cave.
I would then require them to work together to modify equipment to make the transporter function including gratuitous monster scene outside and then melt the equipment down after one use. This has the net effect of reducing the maximum range the transporter has to work, limiting the time Nero has to get away, makes the transporter a single use for emergency plot requirements, and foreshadows Rand potentially becoming transporter chief.
I would have sent across a fully-qualified boarding party including McCoy, Uhura, and security to complete the mission on the Narada.
I would have shown Kirk and Spock receiving a commendations with a cocky comment about how long it will take him to get his first command and then fast forward the final scene to show him stepping onto the bridge in a year's time.
For STiD I would probably have used Garth instead of Khan, adjusting the narrative to fit (Garth was altered by aliens and was pretty nuts so the plot could be adjusted with minimal tweaks and we would be spared Spock shrieking. What's more, since the alterations to Garth drove him nuts, using his blood to help Kirk has potential side effects that can be revisited in the future.
I agree that I would not have placed the starship on the planet's surface - she belongs in space. The shuttle would have worked just fine.
I would have used Chapel in her role as a research biologist rather than a nurse to help McCoy work out what Garth's alterations were.
I would not have promoted Chekov to chief engineer. At most I would have sent him to engineering as liaison to the replacement engineer.
I would have at the very least avoided a full frontal of Carol or at worse, made them both undress to get into suits while carrying on their conversation without any implied smut except maybe a nervous sideways glance from Kirk.
I think for the final scene I would have at least come up with a plausible reason why Earth's defences couldn't react to the crashing ship - prefix code or some similar nonsense.
Really? You do understand that she wasn't naked?
I still don't get it. Star Trek fans see themselves as 'smart' yet so many need everything spoonfed to them. I'd say that since the Vengeance was a Starfleet ship and under the command of the commander and chief of Starfleet, that it all the codes it required programmed into it.
I had the decency to look away Bill ;P
However, I said full frontal - I didn't say full frontal nudity now did I. One can have a full frontal shot with one's clothes on as opposed to say a shot over her shoulder showing Kirk's reaction but not Carol from the front.
No I don't think spoon-feeding is always necessary but sometimes it's nice to show the writers actually thought about what they were doing. It could have taken seconds to punch in some codes on screen or for the Enterprise to announce that Earth's defences had not initiated.
This is about tweaking the movies. Not everybody will agree with every tweak for a variety of reasons.
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