Fantastic Four: Grade, Review, Discuss, Sequels?...SPOILERS likely

[shivkala]

Silly question, why do people think the original origin won't work in the 21st century? The space station origin 10 years ago and now this both seem to miss the key element of Reid's genius setting off the whole thing and his guilt over what happened to his friends.

I'd argue that with NASA no longer having the space shuttle program and private companies such as Space-X working on manned missions, in a weird way, the FF origin story works better now. Why not have Reid be the head of a Space-X type company, which because of his mismanagement of the day-to-day stuff misses a chance to launch, so he grabs Sue, Johnny, and Ben to do it themselves or miss a window that won't happen again for a while (months or years)?

Maybe the only place Reid could launch from is Latveria, so he calls on an old college friend to help out, not knowing that Victor holds a grudge against Reid. Hell, the opening scene could be Reid and Victor in college working together on something that goes horribly wrong. Reid doesn't realize the damage it does to Victor, who drops out and disappears for a while, before emerging as the head of Latveria when his father, the previous ruler dies.

Then, Reid could see Ben's transformation and view it as a shot at redemption for what happened to Victor. If he can cure Ben, and Victor refuses his help, then he can feel better about the whole thing.

 

[the G-man]

There's a dispersion wave (you know the special effect off by heart) that erupts from the transmat capsules when they reenter the positive universe. 10 feet away, caked in the extradimensional wake of this, Sue gets powers.

That's just bizarre -- making the exploration team all-male and having the woman only get powers as an afterthought. Even in the '60s, when the treatment of Sue was horribly sexist and marginalizing, she was at least allowed to come on the dang flight!

Surely it would've made more sense for the Four to go together and for Victor to get his powers from the "wake." Then maybe the fact that he had powers could've been a secret that he could've used to his advantage.

Which is wrong if you ask me. Even if you don't want to recreate it exactly, you should still encourage your cast and other people involved in the creative aspects of the movie to familiarize themselves with the source material. If you're version is so different from the source material that you don't want your cast to read it, then you probably shouldn't bother adapting it.

Not necessarily. If you're doing an adaptation, you want to bring something new and different as well as keeping the key elements that work. Maintaining continuity with the source is the business of the writer, producer, director, etc. So there's nothing wrong with having the actors come at it fresh, so that they can create something novel. The script is one thing, the actors' interpretation another. Sometimes you want them to contrast and produce a new synergy. An actor coming into a part with no preconceptions can give a fresh and surprising interpretation to it, or at least a sincere and unaffected one.

Look at Iron Man. Downey and Paltrow and Bridges weren't imitating the comics characters, they were just ad-libbing with each other within the broad confines of the plot. It was what came from the actors themselves, combined with the elements from the source material, that created the synergy that made the film so effective. In theory, that could've worked here if the script and the direction had been up to par.

He has me on ignore doesn't he?
That is OK. I busted his balls once or twice. And probably that busting was undeserved .

 

[Guy Gardener]

I spent a month positive that one person had me on ignore.

Considered it an affront and a conspiracy!

Then they did respond to a post I made, and I realized that I'm just not loud enough for people to hear most of the time.

 

[Christopher]

Silly question, why do people think the original origin won't work in the 21st century?

Well, for one thing, we're no longer trying to beat the Russians into space, and we've actually had people in space by now, enough times to know that it won't give them weird mutations and superpowers. The FF origin was part of a whole genre of '50s and '60s stories (including prose works and B-movies) about pioneering astronauts getting into space for the first time and discovering bizarre dangers and horrors. Just going into space isn't a pioneering feat in itself anymore, and our understanding of it is better. So it's a very, very dated origin.

The space station origin 10 years ago and now this both seem to miss the key element of Reid's genius setting off the whole thing and his guilt over what happened to his friends.

Granted, that part could be preserved without the whole first-into-space angle. But I though the '05 movie did retain the Reed-guilt angle. It was what drove him to build the machine that cured Ben.

I'd argue that with NASA no longer having the space shuttle program and private companies such as Space-X working on manned missions, in a weird way, the FF origin story works better now. Why not have Reid be the head of a Space-X type company, which because of his mismanagement of the day-to-day stuff misses a chance to launch, so he grabs Sue, Johnny, and Ben to do it themselves or miss a window that won't happen again for a while (months or years)?

Sure, but then why would he blame himself for their transformation just because he took them into space? Lots of people have been into space and not been mutated, so it would surely be seen as a fluke, not a direct result of Reed's inventions. The character story only makes sense if Reed exposes the foursome to something that nobody else has ever experienced.

I guess maybe you're saying that his rush to launch during the particular moment that the weird phenomenon happened would be the cause, but that seems a tenuous basis for blame.

Maybe the only place Reid could launch from is Latveria, so he calls on an old college friend to help out, not knowing that Victor holds a grudge against Reid.

I don't know... space launch facilities generally need to be relatively near the equator, to get a bit of a momentum boost from the Earth's rotation. Latveria's in Eastern Europe, not very equatorial at all.

Then again, we've had various cartoons and movies positing a space launching facility near New York City, including both the '90s Spider-Man and X-Men cartoons. So a lot of productions don't care about the plausibility of it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The teleporter experiment is the origin of the Ultimate Fantastic Four.

A well received and popular reimagining in an alt universe that was created for Noobs after watching the first Toby McGuire Spider-man Movie who wanted to leap into comics without having to learn 50 years of back history to understand what they were reading.

Using the teleporter rather than a rocket is acceptable.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Byrne retconned the rocket flight into being about testing a new stardrive. If some future film adaptation used that as the premise, it could be the space warp itself that gives the four their powers. It's unlikely that trying to be the first humans to go FTL will become dated anytime soon...or at least until 2063.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Did we even need an origin?

Especially an origin thaaaaaaat long.

The movie could have started with Doctor Doom firing the Baxter Building into orbit, of Galactus standing on Donald trump.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The origin isn't long at all if you chose not to put down good money to sit through it.

 

[Admiral2]

Well, for one thing, we're no longer trying to beat the Russians into space, and we've actually had people in space by now, enough times to know that it won't give them weird mutations and superpowers. The FF origin was part of a whole genre of '50s and '60s stories (including prose works and B-movies) about pioneering astronauts getting into space for the first time and discovering bizarre dangers and horrors. Just going into space isn't a pioneering feat in itself anymore, and our understanding of it is better. So it's a very, very dated origin.

Reed's exact words in the first issue:

"We've got to reach THE STARS before the Reds do!"

It was never about just winning the race to space. Byrne's version is not a retcon. The point was always to get beyond the solar system, and that can still be a workable origin, as stated above, because not only has nobody built a working interstellar spacecraft in real life, it also gives Ben an actual reason to be there, unlike in the Story movies or this latest crap. In the original origin, Ben Grimm's a freaking PILOT.

Yes, people have been in space without being mutated, so make it a side effect of the hyperdrive malfunctioning. (Come on, peeps! We're trekkies! Our guys do crap like this ten times a day and twice before breakfast!) Make it sabotage, Latveria doing a mouse-that-roared thing.

The point is just saying "We can't do it cause it's old" is just a lack of imagination coupled with contemporary arrogance.

 

[theenglish]

I agree with the origin story comments, although the Ultimates origin also worked for me.

The more I think about it though, the best future for the Fantastic Four (or Spider-Man for that matter) is on television. The past couple of years have shown that pretty cool effects can be done on a television budget and as I've mentioned elsewhere the true attraction of the FF is the characters.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Reaching the stars could have been hyperbole on Reed's part...it was never explicitly stated that there was anything FTL about that spaceflight in the Lee/Kirby era. They did clarify as early as the second issue, IIRC, that they'd been trying to get to Mars, which is still a futuristic goal today. Manned spaceflight to Mars isn't likely to become outdated anytime soon.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ralph Kramden thought he could send his wife to the moon, and he didn't need a rocket.

Reed was just over thinking it.

Although when they sent the test monkey to Planet Zero, I was completely thinking that Red Ghost and his Superapes were in the aisles waiting for a cue.

 

[shivkala]

Good points about the specifics of my origin idea, but I still hold that a modern take on the original idea could work. Obviously it would have to be given some thought.

I understand there are now Ultimate versions of these characters, but by and large, I don't believe they did a better job with the origins than the originals. Of course, if a movie came along and used the Ultimate origin to great effect, I'd be happy.

I agree with the origin story comments, although the Ultimates origin also worked for me.

So, basically, what theenglish said.

The more I think about it though, the best future for the Fantastic Four (or Spider-Man for that matter) is on television. The past couple of years have shown that pretty cool effects can be done on a television budget and as I've mentioned elsewhere the true attraction of the FF is the characters.

The Fantastic Four are the Trek TOS of the comic world. To me, they've been more about exploration than the typical super-hero comic. Exploration doesn't necessarily translate well to the big screen (after all, how many of the Trek movies have truly been about "Seeing new life and new civilizations...going boldly where no man/one has gone before?). The small screen, however, yes that could work. Villains could be worked into the arc, but individual episodes could deal with Reed finding new dimensions to explore, new technology to test out, etc.

 

[Tosk]

Meh, I wish any superheroes that have had movies in the last decade would just skip the origin completely. Just Incredible Hulk it and move on.

 

[EyalM]

Wow, this was terrible.

The film's pacing was probably the worst thing.
The first act took up more than half the movie (until they get their powers). And nothing happens in it. It doesn't even establish the characters. Reed wants to build a teleporter. That's his whole personality. Sue likes to hear music.... and Johnny and Ben have no business being there in the first place.
The second act is completely useless. It starts and ends with the four in exactly the same place. They could have put a two minute montage of them learning to use their powers (set over, say, a week) and be done with it.
The third act is completely disconnected from the rest of the movie. There is no closure to any character arc, since none of them had one to begin with. Even Reed's "desertion" is forgotten. There is even no rational for them to be a team.

This movie doesn't fail in being a fantastic four movie. It fails at being a movie.

 

[Relayer1]

when they sent the test monkey to Planet Zero, ...

FF 2 villain. Has to be...

 

[Stevil2001]

For those who have seen it (I won't), how was the score? The fact that Philip Glass worked on it is the thing that intrigues me most about this film.

 

[Trek4Ever]

when they sent the test monkey to Planet Zero, ...

FF 2 villain. Has to be...

I could see them, in a parallel world where this movie is a hit, using that test chimp becoming part of the Red Ghost and his Super Apes team.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Fantastic Four under performs. $26 million on it's opening weekend.

2011 Green Lantern made twice that (52.7 million) during it's opening weekend.

Puts things into perspective for you.

 

[Klaus]

I've never seen a movie graded like this here lol, even among you cynical lot ... 15 Fs to 1 A?