It was already tarnished by the incredibly lackluster season seven. The movies didn't do any more damage.
In hindsight do you wish TNG had ended with "All Good Things"?
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It was already tarnished by the incredibly lackluster season seven. The movies didn't do any more damage.
Inspired by this thread, the more I think about it, the more I hate TNG movies. None of them shouldn't have been made!
None of the TNG movies ships ever looked as good as the show but maybe that's just nostalgia. I didn't like the darker look in generations.
But aside from that I don't think the movies tainted the hope from AGT... sure there's the data thing from Nemesis but even that movie has a pretty open ending with B4.
But aside from that I don't think the movies tainted the hope from AGT... sure there's the data thing from Nemesis but even that movie has a pretty open ending with B4.
In hindsight I wish AGT had ended all of Berman-Trek.
I saw Nemesis twice at the cinema.
I was watching it on TV when I realized how bad it really was.
And Insurrection was agonizingly boring.
I really liked Generations and First Contact. In the end it was good to see the old crew at the movies on a big screen. The finale was poor and unworthy of the TNG crew.
I was watching it on TV when I realized how bad it really was.
And Insurrection was agonizingly boring.
I really liked Generations and First Contact. In the end it was good to see the old crew at the movies on a big screen. The finale was poor and unworthy of the TNG crew.
On the whole , I enjoy the TNG films. They are not good by any stretch (even FC is vastly overrated), but I like them and enjoy revisiting the characters on the big screen. The only film in the entire franchise I really don't like is INS, and I think that movie could easily be eliminated and the franchise would lose absolutely nothing.
But, I really am glad we had the movies. That said, AGT was superior to all of the TNG films.
But, I really am glad we had the movies. That said, AGT was superior to all of the TNG films.
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At the expense of making the guy from TOS's "Metamorphosis" into an alcoholic womanizing self-centered asshole, and also at the expense of making the Borg into some drone bee hive with a sultry hormone-addled queen bee at the center.
But if you liked it, awesome
And, speaking from a TOS canon point of view, turning "Zefram Cochrane of Alpha Centuri" into "ZC of Montana". And almost completely rewriting his character, his background, his legacy etc.
Quite a small thing, perhaps, but it's just one more example of how canon is changed by the show producers, and then the new version sets the standard for all that follows ( yes, ENT, I'm talking to you). Then the minor irritation that those who still follow the original version are berated for holding a non-canon position!
What value is there to a canon that can constantly shift?
I don't really see why the two can't coexist in the same continuity?
There is no word that I've come to hate more than 'canon'.
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Just that:-
1) Because the TOS quote of "ZC of Alpha Centauri" doesn't make sense if he discovered Warp Drive while still on Terra. Surely his memory would be associated with the place of his greatest achievement - and so if FC was correct, he'd be ZC of Terra? We don't associate Napoleon with Elba, but rather with France.
2) The man that made FC with Vulcans could hardly be taken by surprise in seeing Spock, and asking "are you a Vulcan" (sorry can't recall the exact quote, but it was something like that).
We simply don't know what he accomplished on Alpha Centauri. He likely helped establish a human presence there. Maybe he openly renounced his Earth heritage at some point (that whole nuclear war thing and the post-atomic horror may have soured him)?
We simply don't know how many races have pointed ears. The Vulcan look may be as widespread as the human look in TOS.
I never had an issue seeing the two as the same person.
Well, that just means that after discovering the space-warp, and after designing the first practical warp drive, and building the first human-carrying spaceship, and after becoming the first human to travel faster than light, and being the first human to (openly) meet aliens in humanity's first-ever first contact, Zefram Cochrane moved to Alpha Centauri and did something really noteworthy is all.
Was warp drive his single greatest achievement, or did he go on to surpass that with even greater discoveries and inventions?
That night after the first warp flight might have been the only time Cochrane encountered a Vulcan personally, and he easily could have been three sheets to the wind by that point from celebrating the warp flight and basically doesn't remember meeting the Vulcan crew.
I mean he later was told he met the Vulcans, but just can't recall it.
TOS Cochrane was sort of a jerk, too.
He recognized Spock was a Vulcan. I think he was surprised at seeing a Vulcan with humans
Yep, that's how I took it. After all, how would he even get to Alpha Centauri without warp drive in the first place? Sure, he could have been frozen, but a trip of that nature would have taken decades.
Pre-Star Trek: First Contact, the prevailing fan belief was that Zephram Cochrane was actually a native of Alpha Centauri, and that once sublight Earth ships reached AC, they opened diplomatic relations with the aliens, which led to the formation of the Federation. Then he created warp drive.
Never heard that one before, maybe not all that prevailing.
I favor the fan belief where Cochrane lead the first Human mission to Alpha Centauri.
All Good Things was the perfect final episode for TNG, but in hindsight I wish it had better movies.
Never liked the TOS episode with Cochrane.
"This energy being is acting...FEMALE!"
"What? The only motive anything we label female could possibly have is sexual interest in me even if it's an energy being without any reason to be attracted to the human form male or female!"
Never liked the TOS episode with Cochrane.
"This energy being is acting...FEMALE!"
"What? The only motive anything we label female could possibly have is sexual interest in me even if it's an energy being without any reason to be attracted to the human form male or female!"
Yes and no. I liked Generations and LOVED First Contact. The other two movies were mediocre. Nemesis was frustrating in its execution/editing, but featured more character development than the other movies and, to some extent, even the TV series.
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