Jurassic World - Discussion and Grading

[Mage]

I love the fact that people totally accept the dino's, but complain about things like gyroballs........

Yeah, that falls right into the category of "transwarp beaming is just stupid"

Exactly!!

It's a movie about cloned dino's people, stop taking it so serious!

 

[Grendelsbayne]

The aviary was part of the tour, but by the point of the events near it they had already pulled all of the park guests from the various attractions to the main area/promenade.

That makes sense. I just don't see the benefit of building a huge cage to let pterodactyls fly about. I mean, that thing would have been expensive! But I don't run a giant zoo, so what do I know?

The Jurassic World site, which is amusingly designed like a site for an actual place says the pterodactyls eat fresh fish from a stream in the aviary. That makes sense. Pterodactyls have long beaks, which like birds with similar features probably evolved to allow them to dive for fish and other water animals.

What doesn't make sense is them trying to eat people, or being able to fly with people in their grip. But it was a fun scene.

Yeah, more than anything else, that was the scene that made me go: 'Ok, we're not even trying to pretend this is making sense anymore...'

I can't be the only one who realizes how STUPID Jurassic Park and it's characters are? Right? I mean the silent T-Rex at the end, the fact the door in the control lab can't lock without power, the kid falling into a tree, then out of the tree, then being shocked by 40,000 watts... all incredibly stupid.

But we don't care because it's fun to watch. Then for some reason Jurassic World is expected to be "better" with the lameness? I don't care, I just want to have fun.

Ah, yes. The Star Wars Prequel Stratagem, which says "it's okay for this film to suck, because the others did too". Yes, the characters in JP were stupid at times - for example, Hammond hired Nedry to design the computer system for his park despite clearly not trusting the guy and hinting that Nedry is having life problems (this was never explained, oddly). Despite this, when Nedry leaves in a hurry acting suspiciously, nobody questions this.

It always seemed clear to me that Hammond and Nedry's problems came after Nedry was already hired. Probably he put his best foot forward, promised Hammond the moon and all the stars for peanuts thinking that once he was in, he'd just raise the price to what he actually needed and Hammond would have no choice but to give in. But Hammond refused, and the result was the screwed up relationship we saw.

The aviary was part of the tour, but by the point of the events near it they had already pulled all of the park guests from the various attractions to the main area/promenade.

That makes sense. I just don't see the benefit of building a huge cage to let pterodactyls fly about. I mean, that thing would have been expensive! But I don't run a giant zoo, so what do I know?

The Jurassic World site, which is amusingly designed like a site for an actual place says the pterodactyls eat fresh fish from a stream in the aviary. That makes sense. Pterodactyls have long beaks, which like birds with similar features probably evolved to allow them to dive for fish and other water animals.

What doesn't make sense is them trying to eat people, or being able to fly with people in their grip. But it was a fun scene.

I can't be the only one who realizes how STUPID Jurassic Park and it's characters are? Right? I mean the silent T-Rex at the end, the fact the door in the control lab can't lock without power, the kid falling into a tree, then out of the tree, then being shocked by 40,000 watts... all incredibly stupid.

But we don't care because it's fun to watch. Then for some reason Jurassic World is expected to be "better" with the lameness? I don't care, I just want to have fun.

Ah, yes. The Star Wars Prequel Stratagem, which says "it's okay for this film to suck, because the others did too". Yes, the characters in JP were stupid at times - for example, Hammond hired Nedry to design the computer system for his park despite clearly not trusting the guy and hinting that Nedry is having life problems (this was never explained, oddly). Despite this, when Nedry leaves in a hurry acting suspiciously, nobody questions this.

As for your complaints, the T-Rex was likely quiet when it moved, relatively speaking. It wouldn't be able to survive as a hunter if it made thundering noises whenever it moved. The door locks - that was silly, but fit the idea that everything in the park was computerized and automated. Timmy was thrown into a tree while in a vehicle and climbed out of the tree. Not sure what you are getting at there. He was shocked by the fence as he was climbing over it. The fence's were electrified so the dinos wouldn't touch them. So?

In any event, the stupidity and mistakes of the characters in JP, a bunch of untrained civilians, doesn't excuse the massive stupidity of people who are highly trained and have been running the same theme park for years, or are military personnel who clearly have no idea how to use stealth or shoot weapons.

JP, at the very least, had tense moments. JW has none. JP had likable characters. JW has none. JP had quotable lines. Can you quote a single line from JW? Maybe "what did I just say". JP felt like a project by people who were passionate about what they were doing. JW felt like a product pumped out to make money, and serve as product placement. In other words, the typical summer blockbuster.

Oh, I was agreeing with you right until the last paragraph. JW did not have likeable characters? I know mileage will vary, but I was kind of surprised by that one.

I can quote lines from JW, no problem. But, I'm weird that way.

JW just felt more lik a mold of JP style films, with dinosaurs running around eating people. I definitely think it could have been more, but I dislike LW and JP III far more than JW.

JW had exactly one likeable character (Owen), who unfortunately was extremely 2 dimensional and generic. And the dialogue doesn't even remotely compare.

This is the main disconnect I see: so many people like to look at the JP series and say it's all about dinosaurs running around eating people, so obviously any movie where dinosaurs run around and eat people must be a 'good' JP movie. But if you really look at the original, regardless of its flaws, it was clearly more than just dinosaurs running around eating people. There was a point to it - a philosophical component that was interesting to think about and was well represented among the characters - and there was an atmosphere that inspired not just the general fear and chaos that the sequels have been consistently obsessed with but also a great wonder for the natural world. Those are the things that are clearly missing from JW. (And LW and JPIII, although I give JPIII more of a break because it was upfront and honest from the get go that it wasn't even trying to be anything more than a generic action film in a JP setting)

 

[fireproof78]

Oh, I was agreeing with you right until the last paragraph. JW did not have likeable characters? I know mileage will vary, but I was kind of surprised by that one.

I can quote lines from JW, no problem. But, I'm weird that way.

JW just felt more lik a mold of JP style films, with dinosaurs running around eating people. I definitely think it could have been more, but I dislike LW and JP III far more than JW.

JW had exactly one likeable character (Owen), who unfortunately was extremely 2 dimensional and generic. And the dialogue doesn't even remotely compare.

This is the main disconnect I see: so many people like to look at the JP series and say it's all about dinosaurs running around eating people, so obviously any movie where dinosaurs run around and eat people must be a 'good' JP movie. But if you really look at the original, regardless of its flaws, it was clearly more than just dinosaurs running around eating people. There was a point to it - a philosophical component that was interesting to think about and was well represented among the characters - and there was an atmosphere that inspired not just the general fear and chaos that the sequels have been consistently obsessed with but also a great wonder for the natural world. Those are the things that are clearly missing from JW. (And LW and JPIII, although I give JPIII more of a break because it was upfront and honest from the get go that it wasn't even trying to be anything more than a generic action film in a JP setting)[/QUOTE]

I think that JW had a philosophical component that was unrealized in its execution. I'll not excuse the film because of its absence, but I'll not deny my enjoyment either.

I don't think anything can be stacked against JP without taking some steps that go with the consequences of introducing dinosaurs back to the world.

I think JW attempted to capitalize on all the beats that JP had but was more surface level in its execution.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

For all the bragging that Hammond did about sparing no expense, Nedry was hired because he had the lowest bid for the job.

Yeah. I think the 'sparing no expense' line was repeated so often it was meant to be ironic.

The thing that always bothered me about Nedry is his financial problems were never explained. Was he in trouble with the IRS? The law? Why would he be paid so little, especially considering he designed the computer systems for the entire park! People who design computer systems are paid pretty damn well, even when they aren't doing it for an entirely new theme park whose success depends on his work.

If I were Nedry, I would have told Hammond that either I make a reasonable amount for my work, or I am taking off, and good luck making the park work without me. Of course, he probably was going to make millions selling the embryos, so I'm not sure why he was complaining about finances to begin with.

 

[Corran Horn]

But if you really look at the original, regardless of its flaws, it was clearly more than just dinosaurs running around eating people. There was a point to it - a philosophical component that was interesting to think about and was well represented among the characters - and there was an atmosphere that inspired not just the general fear and chaos that the sequels have been consistently obsessed with but also a great wonder for the natural world.

Hell, I think the idea of man's (sorry Ellie) hubris and the illusion of control were even more evident in JW than they were in JP.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Oh, I was agreeing with you right until the last paragraph. JW did not have likeable characters? I know mileage will vary, but I was kind of surprised by that one.

None that I can think of. Pratt was rather bland, typical action hero guy who wasn't nearly fun enough. Howard was your typical uptight career woman character. They tried having a Han Solo/Leia interplay between the two, but it didn't work at all. The CEO character was pretty forgettable. D'Onofrio's character was about as exciting as Hammond's nephew from The Lost World (anybody remember that guy?).

So, no, in my opinion JW had no likable characters. They had pretty characters. I know that often these days that looks are a good substitute for personality, but when Marvel has shown us we can actually have both, JW felt like a step back to disaster movies like Armageddon and The Core, where good looks are star power are all that matters.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh, I was agreeing with you right until the last paragraph. JW did not have likeable characters? I know mileage will vary, but I was kind of surprised by that one.

None that I can think of. Pratt was rather bland, typical action hero guy who wasn't nearly fun enough. Howard was your typical uptight career woman character. They tried having a Han Solo/Leia interplay between the two, but it didn't work at all. The CEO character was pretty forgettable. D'Onofrio's character was about as exciting as Hammond's nephew from The Lost World (anybody remember that guy?).

So, no, in my opinion JW had no likable characters. They had pretty characters. I know that often these days that looks are a good substitute for personality, but when Marvel has shown us we can actually have both, JW felt like a step back to disaster movies like Armageddon and The Core, where good looks are star power are all that matters.

Yes, I remember Hammond's nephew. I found him to be the usually suit type that is a common villain in many films nowadays.

I found Masrani (that CEO guy) incredibly fascinating, and wish that he had not died in such a stupid manner, and that he had more time to actual present his point of view.

Hoskins (D'Onofrio) was also, in my opinion, a natural outgrowth of the discovery of the dinos. How can we use them.

The unfortunate thing with this film is in your last part, you are correct. It didn't go deep enough to explore the conflicts and consequences. It felt like a typical disaster movie, and that's it.

We'll agree to disagree on characters though

 

[Trekker4747]

I *could* argue BDH had to leave the paddock to use her phone in order to get to the command center or having bad cell-reception in the room?

And that's assuming the Island has cell towers.

Considering how many people have and use cell-phones today it's possible the island had reliable cell coverage.

 

[Mr Light]

<<The thing that always bothered me about Nedry is his financial problems were never explained. >>

I just read the novel and there it was the fact that Hammond hired him to automate the entire park, but then refused to pay extra when that resulted in endless problems and Nedry having to come out himself to do all this problem shooting. Hammond considered it all part of the original contract and Nedry wanted extra pay for all the extra work.

 

[Corran Horn]

I *could* argue BDH had to leave the paddock to use her phone in order to get to the command center or having bad cell-reception in the room?

And that's assuming the Island has cell towers.

Considering how many people have and use cell-phones today it's possible the island had reliable cell coverage.

If you thought people complained when they shut down the park and got attacked by pterodactyls just imagine how irate they'd be if there were no cell service!

 

[Trekker4747]

<<The thing that always bothered me about Nedry is his financial problems were never explained. >>

I just read the novel and there it was the fact that Hammond hired him to automate the entire park, but then refused to pay extra when that resulted in endless problems and Nedry having to come out himself to do all this problem shooting. Hammond considered it all part of the original contract and Nedry wanted extra pay for all the extra work.

Okay, I remember that now. But, to be fair, unless there was a clause in the contract for "overtime," Hammond was right and, well, as a professional Nedry should have known that. That's what a contract is for, why should Hammond pay more because Nedry's work isn't holding up.

Then again... "spared no expense" why go for the lowest bidder?!

 

[Beagleman]

Because it's a cute phrase. People love that kind of bs.

 

[Corran Horn]

<<The thing that always bothered me about Nedry is his financial problems were never explained. >>

I just read the novel and there it was the fact that Hammond hired him to automate the entire park, but then refused to pay extra when that resulted in endless problems and Nedry having to come out himself to do all this problem shooting. Hammond considered it all part of the original contract and Nedry wanted extra pay for all the extra work.

Okay, I remember that now. But, to be fair, unless there was a clause in the contract for "overtime," Hammond was right and, well, as a professional Nedry should have known that. That's what a contract is for, why should Hammond pay more because Nedry's work isn't holding up.

Then again... "spared no expense" why go for the lowest bidder?!

Because the underlying park OS wasn't directly guest-facing, I'd say.

 

[shapeshifter]

Voted B, as in Better than T5.

I hope we someday get a dinosaur flick rated an hard R. JW was an ok film but I'm past being excited simply at the sight of dinos, I need some real dino-gore.

This kiddy show isn't hitting the sweet spot. People being eaten by them is where the fear factor is for me. It's not to much to ask that we get dino-gags on par with the top slasher films, is it?

 

[TremblingBluStar]

<<The thing that always bothered me about Nedry is his financial problems were never explained. >>

I just read the novel and there it was the fact that Hammond hired him to automate the entire park, but then refused to pay extra when that resulted in endless problems and Nedry having to come out himself to do all this problem shooting. Hammond considered it all part of the original contract and Nedry wanted extra pay for all the extra work.

I figured the novel explained better, but it has been years since I've read it. In any event, shame on Nedry for not at least having the contract specify what happens if things don't work, and shame on Hammond for not caring if his employees are happy. Though the Hammond in the novel seems far far more likely to do this sort of thing than the grandfatherly Hammond from the movie.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

I hope we someday get a dinosaur flick rated an hard R. JW was an ok film but I'm past being excited simply at the sight of dinos, I need some real dino-gore.

Like Carnosaur?

 

[fireproof78]

Voted B, as in Better than T5.

I hope we someday get a dinosaur flick rated an hard R. JW was an ok film but I'm past being excited simply at the sight of dinos, I need some real dino-gore.

This kiddy show isn't hitting the sweet spot. People being eaten by them is where the fear factor is for me. It's not to much to ask that we get dino-gags on par with the top slasher films, is it?

I'm sure there is a market for it out there, but I'll pass.

 

[shapeshifter]

^I understand, fireproof78. I know other people who have outgrown gore.

I hope we someday get a dinosaur flick rated an hard R. JW was an ok film but I'm past being excited simply at the sight of dinos, I need some real dino-gore.

Like Carnosaur?

What a BOMB!

Never seen it before. R. Corman is the director though so how 'bad' can it be. I'll keep a lookout for it, thanks.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

What a BOMB!

Never seen it before. R. Corman is the director though so how 'bad' can it be. I'll keep a lookout for it, thanks.

Gene Siskel gave it a thumbs up!

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEJKiK5hNlA[/yt]

 

[shapeshifter]

Well lookey here, this showed up in the upcoming list at the end of that video.

(WARNING: graphic fake dino on people violence!)

Spoiler: OPEN AT YOUR OWN RISK!

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruCkiBBeZ2w[/yt]

Yeah, that's the ticket. As fake as that was it still gave my spine a tingle.

C'mon Hollywood, give us a modern take on that!