Will Riker refusing own command
- Thread starter Kilana2
- Start date
It worked out exactly how he wanted, once he figured out what he wanted. The end result was admittedly not how he'd intended his career to unfold
He wanted to get himself some (more) notoriety as XO on board the ENT-D that he wouldn't have gotten captaining the Drake. Understandable. He figured that would get him a better command, & maybe so, but by the time he was offered the Melbourne, he was already stuck into the erroneous notion that he should succeed Picard as the D's captain.
But truthfully, if you REALLY want to be a captain, you don't care what ship it's on. A ship is a post. It's not permanent. That person takes the Aries & drives out to the middle of nowhere & does the good work. If you want to be a captain, then you take the Aries, just like Picard took the Stargazer. If you want to be a superstar all your life then you stay on board the superstar ship & bask in the stardom
I never really felt like Riker's card blanche after BoBW had anything to do with his actual captaining ability. It was a reward for coming through on saving everyone, which he didn't do alone, nor did he really play a significant part in. Without Data hacking the collective, the Borg win. With Data doing that... end of conflict. That simple. By the time he's offered the Titan, they'd had themselves a series of movies that all were stories about being masters of the universe, just like the TOS movies. So I guess it stands to reason they'd offer him something juicy, but ultimately, it's just another ship
To paraphrase Mongomery Scott "A ship is only as good as the engineer (Crew) who cares for her"
In a real Navy, an officer refusing to accept a promotion. let alone a command would be ending his career. The organizational needs of the service won't allow an officer to "squat" in a post the way Trek has it. There are too many up and coming officers whose careers would be bottlenecked if it were to be permitted. They can't just shut down Command School and say "Sorry, no openings."
Also, typically you have to have at least 20 years service before being considered for promotion to Captain, so Riker was still too young really.
Also, typically you have to have at least 20 years service before being considered for promotion to Captain, so Riker was still too young really.
What about Kirk?
In Star Trek, the youngest captains seem to get command around the age of 28 after probably seven years of post-Academy service. Captain Scott (TNG) seems to be the youngest captain in the fleet on record as of 2364. We do not know when she was at the academy.
Star Trek (2009)'s Kirk was of similar age, but only a few days experience.
Star Trek (2009)'s Kirk was of similar age, but only a few days experience.
You saw BOBW?
Picard could have been promoted to Admiral and become Commandant of Starfleet Academy. But he opted to squat on the Enterprise Captain position, and it slowed down both his career and the careers of others.
Given that Picard was probably Captain of USS Stargazer for two decades and later two Enterprises for about two decades, it seems like once you are a captain of a ship, you likely are going to stay there. Picard only changed ships when the previous one was wrecked. The main thing we don't know is what Picard's position in Starfleet was between commands. Especially between 2355 and 2363.
I don't know if Princess Cruises does this, but it used to be customary for a steamship or cruiseship company to call their senior captain a commodore, and the ship he commanded the flagship.
Naval usage I think is still that the flagship is where the commodore or admiral commanding the fleet or task force is. They are directing the fleet's operations. In Starfleet, there are also fleet operations at times, and the ship with the admiral directing them is properly the flagship.
It's a useful word, not just another word for "coolest" that sounds navy but really isn't.
Chakotay was probably the only First Officer whose situation afforded him the luxury of keeping his First Officer status with no questions asked, the entire series run. But then, again, even Mister Spock kept his First Officer position even with his own promotion to Captain. Perhaps that's what they should've done with Riker, is just make him share the captaincy of ENTERPRISE with Picard. And with Picard's advanced years and pacemaker and all that ... perhaps it wouldn't have been such a hard sell, after all, having Riker share the Captain's Chair.
About the only thing I can do in my head to make Riker's long sabbatical at first officer work is imagining Starfleet asked him to stay aboard the Enterprise after "The Best of Both Worlds" to keep an eye on Picard.
Unfortunately, that would tally with events in FIRST CONTACT, when Picard was being jerked around by STARFLEET, because of prior dealings with the Borg ...
At the point of WNMHGB, Kirk would have been ~32. Assuming he graduated promptly from the Academy, he would have been 22 when he started his service in 2255, so he'd be short on the time requirement by 10 years.
Same in the JJ-verse.
Realistically, neither should have made Captain when they did, and certainly not JJ Kirk, fresh from the academy with zero practical experience as a serving officer.
Of the two, Prime Kirk is the one that might work if you assume some sort of "fast track" promotion and/or some extraordinary event. But it's pushing the stretch quite a bit.
She couldn't be older than ~32, since that was Kirk's age when he made Captain in the Prime universe. Therefore she could not have graduated later than 2332.
Star Trek (2009)'s Kirk was of similar age, but only a few days experience.[/QUOTE]
Kirk would have been 21 (born 2233).
Note I said "in a real Navy". Starfleet obviously does things a little differently.
The bulk of Star Trek (2009) takes place in 2258, making Kirk 25.
Well I think the answer maybe for a few reasons, firstly I am sure there was a quote in Generations movie when Riker says he was always hoping for "a shot at the big chair one day" which I am reading into as he was biding time in the hope Picard would be promoted and he could take the chair like BOBW but less dramatic circumstances.
As for why he changed his mind and took command of the Titan, maybe after the Dominion War he wanted to get back to exploring, something that was not going to be likely as the flagship of the federation.
As for why he changed his mind and took command of the Titan, maybe after the Dominion War he wanted to get back to exploring, something that was not going to be likely as the flagship of the federation.
On top of that Kirk told Picard to remain on the center seat, to make a difference. Kirk wasn't keen of being an Admiral and thus a desk jockey either.
"Flagship of the Federation" is a title rather than a position in a fleet. The Admiral commands from the flagship of his fleet. The Flagship of the Federation goes around and presents the Federation to the masses of the galaxy as their best foot forward. Used to give the best possible impression of the Federation to other worlds and cultures.
It is not a title to lead fleets into battle or in formation. It is a title to present the very best the Federation has to offer. In the cruise liner sense of the word. (The Princess Cruise commodores don't fly their flag on the flagship. Their most recent commodore runs cruises on the Ruby Princess.) Though in the cruise liners terms, a senior captain would be a commodore (Merchant Navy style), but that's not a flag rank...that's an equal to a naval captain in the Royal Navy.
It is not a title to lead fleets into battle or in formation. It is a title to present the very best the Federation has to offer. In the cruise liner sense of the word. (The Princess Cruise commodores don't fly their flag on the flagship. Their most recent commodore runs cruises on the Ruby Princess.) Though in the cruise liners terms, a senior captain would be a commodore (Merchant Navy style), but that's not a flag rank...that's an equal to a naval captain in the Royal Navy.
This I would've very much like to have seen. It would've further established TNG as having its own identity and audiences probably would've gone along with it wtihout question or confusion. It just wasn't in the cards ...
How exactly did he hurt his career when he ends up getting the Titan when it's all said and done??
Seems to me he started out as very career driven and trying to drive to the top as fast as possible. He realized that he still had some things to learn from Picard and also enjoyed his job aboard the Enterprise and his friends there. He was happy there and loved being the 1st officer and was obviously always hoping to reconnect with Troi (which he did!). And like I said in the end he gets the Titan anyway PLUS a hot wife! People have odd definitions of failure here sometimes...
Seems to me he started out as very career driven and trying to drive to the top as fast as possible. He realized that he still had some things to learn from Picard and also enjoyed his job aboard the Enterprise and his friends there. He was happy there and loved being the 1st officer and was obviously always hoping to reconnect with Troi (which he did!). And like I said in the end he gets the Titan anyway PLUS a hot wife! People have odd definitions of failure here sometimes...
Similar threads
