Will Riker refusing own command

[Marsden]

Riker was offered command of the USS Melbourne - the ship was destroyed at Wolf 359. So he was right to stay where he was. Maybe one of the parallel universe Rikers decided to take the command - and died. Only Q knows...

But what if Riker commanded the Melbourne to victory over the Borg? He would have been able to pick any ship he wanted.

 

[BillJ]

Riker was offered command of the USS Melbourne - the ship was destroyed at Wolf 359. So he was right to stay where he was. Maybe one of the parallel universe Rikers decided to take the command - and died. Only Q knows...

But what if Riker commanded the Melbourne to victory over the Borg? He would have been able to pick any ship he wanted.

+1

If Riker was the brilliant starship-commander-to-be that every one thinks he would've been, how many lives were lost that might have otherwise been saved if he had his own command?

 

[C.E. Evans]

Or Riker might have ended up dead like thousands of others at Wolf 359. He may have done more good being on the Enterprise at the right moment in time.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Who else did Riker really have to stay onboard for, though? I mean ... sacrificing his future prospects to be where his heart told him to stay. Tasha died. Crusher took a promotion, elsewhere. Geordi and Worf got moved around. It's not like he could've controlled any of that. Influenced, maybe, but hardly more than that. At the end of the day, what it really looks like to me, is that Riker stayed because of his Imzadi. Yes, he and Troi made off with other people, but that never stopped them from playing the Imzadi Card. And they played it often enough, where the implication's really there that she has some kind of hold over him. It's not a hold he regrets or resents, but when they re-united on FARPOINT STATION, from then-on, they weren't going to let eachother out of their sight(s), again.

 

[Ithekro]

At Wolf 359, if Riker was on Melbourne, he'd likely still want to rescue Picard, but be counter-manned by the Admiral. I am not sure if he'd have the personal to stage a rescue operation in the heat of battle, nor the people with the strength to overpower the Borg in hand to hand combat. Worf and Data seemed to be able to barely manage. He also might no have the knowledge of his new crew up to a level were he can ask such things of them and know their strengths and weaknesses. Plus one has to wonder about what would happen to Enterprise under acting captain Shelby once Picard is taken. Would they have taken the defector shot? Would they have failed while trying to rescue Picard and lost the ship? Shelby wanted to go back and get Picard, while Riker decided to pull the trigger. While the shot did nothing to the Borg, it did give Starfleet the knowledge it needed that Picard's knowledge had been assimilated and there tactics and weapons might be next to useless.

Riker's advantage would be knowing Picard and being able to use unorthodox patterns against his former captain. But that still doesn't address the possibility that they fleet just didn't have enough firepower against the adapted Borg cube.

In the end, it was science, via Data and Picard that ended the threat. If Riker could keep the fleet together and alive long enough for Enterprise to arrive (some 12 hours or more later), and assuming Enterprise survived its encounter with the Borg, could Riker's ship team up with Shelby's and defeat the Borg the same way? They'd still need to rescue Picard, if the firepower wasn't enough.

 

[velour]

It was probably a mistake to even mention Riker getting his own command. By doing so they put the question out there and unless Frakes quit the show, there was little chance of it happening. It made Riker look weak and stupid when he kept turning down those offers.

Riker did come across as weak and pathetic. He mentioned so many times how he wanted to command a ship of his own. He didn't follow through, though. He talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. It made him seem weak.

Shelby summed it up best.

Shelby to Riker, to his face: "All you know how to do is play it safe. I suppose that's why someone like you sits in the shadow of a great man for as long as you have, passing up one command after another...

If you can't make the big decisions, Commander, I suggest you make room for someone who can."

I loved that scene. Shelby spoke the truth about Riker.

I was surprised that the writers wrote that dialogue into the show. The writers didn't do any favors for the Riker character. They created Riker that way he was, and they went on to tear him down.

Perhaps, Riker's brashness and bravado was a cover for his weakness and insecurity. Whatever the case, Riker's image was damaged by his constant passing over of command opportunities.

By the way, didn't Starfleet command have the power to move personnel around as they see fit? Didn't Starfleet have the power to reassign Riker to a different ship or to a desk job if they thought that was best, or to force Riker to retire for his intransigence in not accepting any promotion that was offered to him?

 

[Keith1701]

I'm glad that he stayed on the Enterprise.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

It was probably a mistake to even mention Riker getting his own command. By doing so they put the question out there and unless Frakes quit the show, there was little chance of it happening. It made Riker look weak and stupid when he kept turning down those offers.

Riker did come across as weak and pathetic. He mentioned so many times how he wanted to command a ship of his own. He didn't follow through, though. He talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. It made him seem weak.

Shelby summed it up best.

Shelby to Riker, to his face: "All you know how to do is play it safe. I suppose that's why someone like you sits in the shadow of a great man for as long as you have, passing up one command after another...

If you can't make the big decisions, Commander, I suggest you make room for someone who can."

I loved that scene. Shelby spoke the truth about Riker.

I was surprised that the writers wrote that dialogue into the show. The writers didn't do any favors for the Riker character. They created Riker that way he was, and they went on to tear him down.

Perhaps, Riker's brashness and bravado was a cover for his weakness and insecurity. Whatever the case, Riker's image was damaged by his constant passing over of command opportunities.

By the way, didn't Starfleet command have the power to move personnel around as they see fit? Didn't Starfleet have the power to reassign Riker to a different ship or to a desk job if they thought that was best, or to force Riker to retire for his intransigence in not accepting any promotion that was offered to him?

Sounds like you just don't care for Riker. He did end up in command of his own ship as several of us have pointed out. So long as Picard was happy with him and Riker was happy I really don't see the issue here.

 

[Phantom]

Kirk would have been 21 (born 2233).

The bulk of Star Trek (2009) takes place in 2258, making Kirk 25.

Ok. Still to young by real world Navy standards and certainly no time in grade or experience. Pike's claim he could have his own ship in 5 years is just not credible.

 

[BillJ]

Ok. Still to young by real world Navy standards and certainly no time in grade or experience. Pike's claim he could have his own ship in 5 years is just not credible.

Would he have had a starship like the Enterprise in four years under normal conditions? No. But there are probably smaller commands that are the domain of Lieutenant and Lt. Commanders.

And I think Pike mentions going through the Academy in four years and having his own ship in eight.

You could be an officer in four years. You could have your own ship in eight.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Extras/movie2009.html

 

[Corran Horn]

Well I think the answer maybe for a few reasons, firstly I am sure there was a quote in Generations movie when Riker says he was always hoping for "a shot at the big chair one day" which I am reading into as he was biding time in the hope Picard would be promoted and he could take the chair like BOBW but less dramatic circumstances.

As for why he changed his mind and took command of the Titan, maybe after the Dominion War he wanted to get back to exploring, something that was not going to be likely as the flagship of the federation.

On top of that Kirk told Picard to remain on the center seat, to make a difference. Kirk wasn't keen of being an Admiral and thus a desk jockey either.

Yeah, Generations is a great example of why Picard wouldn't want to be an Admiral.

Riker is a tougher question - the books have tried to justify it somewhat w/r/t him eventually accepting the Titan position. On-screen, it seems easily enough that post Insurrection he and Troi grew closer and decided to start their lives anew and make whatever changes would come from that.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I agree that he didn't really hurt his career in the end - although that's really down to the writers more than any logical progression of the story - and I agree that his actions definitely weren't a sign of a lack of ambition, but I don't think they were good choices, either.

In general, it comes across to me as being far too ambitious - to the point of selfishness - he doesn't just want to command a ship, he wants to command THAT ship, and no other will do, no matter what anyone else says, no matter what Starfleet needs him to do (I mean, when he swore his oath to Starfleet, did he add 'but only as long as I can have exactly the post I want'?).

And the fact that him sitting around in a cushy post (when Starfleet has said 3 times already that they want him to take on more responsibility) is taking up space that other officers could use to improve their careers and learn to better themselves as officers under such a legendary captain, that fact he doesn't really give a damn about at all. It's not a very appealing character trait, to say the least.

 

[2takesfrakes]

In general, it comes across to me as being far too ambitious - to the point of selfishness ...

This is an excellent point about Riker's driving self-interest and how that motivates him.

 

[suarezguy]

The writers didn't do any favors for the Riker character. They created Riker that way he was, and they went on to tear him down.

Perhaps, Riker's brashness and bravado was a cover for his weakness and insecurity.

Well he certainly did have many flaws (his long estrangement from his father, his hero-worship of his first captain to where he would participate in a cover-up, arguably his intolerance of Worf's beliefs in "Ethics" and willingness to break the Prime Directive in "The Outcast", a possible future self of him resenting Worf), I thought those made him more interesting.

It's interesting that Picard and Kirk don't get criticism for avoiding and resenting becoming admirals, a higher position isn't necessarily a better one. Almost all the characters on the shows stick around for years in their positions, even during wartime on DS9, I find it believable that quick promotions wouldn't be expected.

 

[Mojochi]

So long as Picard was happy with him and Riker was happy I really don't see the issue here.

The issue is that they're not the end all be all. They're a part of an institution that they've sworn an oath to serve. If the institution sees fit to offer you command, & you've aligned yourself in that career path, then you are obligated to take the job.

It would be like being a doctor in Starfleet, & then they determine that you should be a CMO, & you turn it down to stick around in your lesser position

Starfleet is clearly more liberal in its personal freedoms than traditional military, where it would be unacceptable to turn it down. Starfleet offers more latitude, but at the same time, an individual SHOULD see to it that they are representing the institution in their best possible way. Otherwise, why serve it? The needs of the many...

He is not, & imho, the longer he stays there, the less worthwhile he ends up becoming. He is choosing himself over Starfleet when he turns down command. You might do it once, maybe twice, if you think the post is not a suitable one, but over a decade? C'mon. You're dragging ass

 

[Kilana2]

[
It would be like being a doctor in Starfleet, & then they determine that you should be a CMO, & you turn it down to stick around in your lesser position

Crusher stepped down as head of Starfleet Medical. Not a wise move. Other than that we'd have had to put up with Pulaski.

 

[Phantom]

Ok. Still to young by real world Navy standards and certainly no time in grade or experience. Pike's claim he could have his own ship in 5 years is just not credible.

Would he have had a starship like the Enterprise in four years under normal conditions? No. But there are probably smaller commands that are the domain of Lieutenant and Lt. Commanders.

And I think Pike mentions going through the Academy in four years and having his own ship in eight.

You could be an officer in four years. You could have your own ship in eight.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Extras/movie2009.html

Still too young by any realistic standard. Read up on what it takes to be a qualified naval officer.

ETA: And if you could justify command of a small ship (cutter, etc) after only 4 years, you definitely could not justify command of one of the few "top of the line" vessels in the fleet (equivalent of giving a still basically "wet behind the ears" Ensign or Lt the command of an aircraft carrier).

 

[BillJ]

Still too young by any realistic standard. Read up on what it takes to be a qualified naval officer.

Not the point. You keep misrepresenting what actually happened in the movie. Which is another thing: it is a movie. I don't give a rats ass whether or not they follow realistic naval standards. I care if it entertains me and Mrs. BillJ for two hours.

 

[Kilana2]

Still too young by any realistic standard. Read up on what it takes to be a qualified naval officer.

Not the point. You keep misrepresenting what actually happened in the movie. Which is another thing: it is a movie. I don't give a rats ass whether or not they follow realistic naval standards. I care if it entertains me and Mrs. BillJ for two hours.

That hit home!

I don't care for naval standards, either. Except when I read English books and have to look up some navel terms or oders. You don't learn such things in your English class .

 

[Bagofmostlywatr]

I was surprised that the writers wrote that dialogue into the show. The writers didn't do any favors for the Riker character. They created Riker that way he was, and they went on to tear him down.

Perhaps, Riker's brashness and bravado was a cover for his weakness and insecurity. Whatever the case, Riker's image was damaged by his constant passing over of command opportunities.

By the way, didn't Starfleet command have the power to move personnel around as they see fit? Didn't Starfleet have the power to reassign Riker to a different ship or to a desk job if they thought that was best, or to force Riker to retire for his intransigence in not accepting any promotion that was offered to him?

I always read it that he might have been coasting a bit, but he was enjoying what he was doing, being hands-on with the exciting stuff that the enterprise got into every week, having the fights, getting the girl, rather than sitting on the bridge watching someone else have the fun.

Although that begs the question of whether some tng era Captains of big ships got in on the action like kirk did in his era, rather then delegating and managing it like picard usually did .