TOS Hypothetical Question
- Thread starter SevrinThree
- Start date
Strangely enough, stated that simply, my answer would be Enterprise. Coto had things finally on track when we got that stupid "love letter to the fans".
I wouldn't miss TNG or VOY at all. (And yes, when TNG came out, I finally warmed to it by it's third season, but IMO it still is such a total retcon of Star Trek; as the years have gone on for me - it's largely unwatchable along with VOY.) I'd happily send TNG to the scapheap for another season of Star Trek (TOS).
FWIW - I at least liked that DS9 got away from the 'perfectly adjusted humans who only have conflict from the outside, or due to alien influence' paradigm of TNG. I also enjoyed ENT for the same reason in that the crew was a 'better' human per se; but not perfect, nor a child of a utopian society that had somehow gotten rid of money - and no one had to 'pursue things' and just 'worked to better themselves...' <-- Again, a 100% TNG contrivance that humanity will NEVER achieve; and TOS was NOT a utopian society - nor had money been removed/replaced (they reference 'credits' all the time in TOS.)
FWIW - I at least liked that DS9 got away from the 'perfectly adjusted humans who only have conflict from the outside, or due to alien influence' paradigm of TNG. I also enjoyed ENT for the same reason in that the crew was a 'better' human per se; but not perfect, nor a child of a utopian society that had somehow gotten rid of money - and no one had to 'pursue things' and just 'worked to better themselves...' <-- Again, a 100% TNG contrivance that humanity will NEVER achieve; and TOS was NOT a utopian society - nor had money been removed/replaced (they reference 'credits' all the time in TOS.)
I'd say the "rate of exchange" should be three bad episodes for one good one. Pick and choose from each series what you think the lows were.
And I'm assuming that what we would get would be equivalent to "lost episodes" from the original series with the original cast as if they were made back then but never aired.
And I'm assuming that what we would get would be equivalent to "lost episodes" from the original series with the original cast as if they were made back then but never aired.
For a full second season of TAS, with some quality writers on board I'd a few of the duds from seasons 6 and 7) a lot of Voyager and the third season of Enterprise plus Storm Front and that one with Porthos sick.
For a season 4 of TOS that matched S3, perhaps with a few less episodes (say 20 episodes?) and less emphasis on the big 3, I'd give those up plus TUC, Nemesis, STID, about a seasons worth of TNG and perhaps half a season of DS9 (such as the later mirror episodes).
In other words, I'd clear out the shite from the Trek stable for one of these, but of the two options, I'd rather have TAS done as well as a modern cartoon. Fix the pacing, the music and less good stories. A few more good episodes would make me happy. I'd gladly take that over a 4th live action TOS series.
For a season 4 of TOS that matched S3, perhaps with a few less episodes (say 20 episodes?) and less emphasis on the big 3, I'd give those up plus TUC, Nemesis, STID, about a seasons worth of TNG and perhaps half a season of DS9 (such as the later mirror episodes).
In other words, I'd clear out the shite from the Trek stable for one of these, but of the two options, I'd rather have TAS done as well as a modern cartoon. Fix the pacing, the music and less good stories. A few more good episodes would make me happy. I'd gladly take that over a 4th live action TOS series.
I'd not be hugely tempted by more TOS - I'm more into the TOS Movies.
If I was pushed, I'd sacrifice half of Seasons 1 and 2 of Enterprise, all of season 3 and a good chunk of Voyager. That would just raise the average overall quality of Trek.
I'd also bin STV and and mybe one episode of DS9.
If I was pushed, I'd sacrifice half of Seasons 1 and 2 of Enterprise, all of season 3 and a good chunk of Voyager. That would just raise the average overall quality of Trek.
I'd also bin STV and and mybe one episode of DS9.
Hmmm.
The only willing way I'd sacrifice what we got is if it came with a better deal.
A better deal?
A fourth and fifth seasons of TOS. The full Five Year mission. Maybe with elements of TAS thrown in as possible given the technology barriers of the day. Perhaps TAS as a set of non-Five Year mission pieces, or fill-in missions that cover what you couldn't do with live action very well in 1970. Then Star Trek II not long after that. A refit of Enterprise and some updating, but more or less the same show. Then after five years of that, some movies (the actors would probably hate that they'd been typecast after 12 to 15 years playing the same roles even if they were going to start getting motion picture grade paychecks as oppose to steady work on TV or a year or two of voice acting inbetween while sets were rebuilt.
After a few films or even during Star Trek II, the cast starts to retire, perhaps as they are slowly replaced with new actors to continue the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.
Maybe no TNG/DS9/VOY as we know them. But maybe they would still come about. Just that TNG would be the continuing adventures of the Enterprise under a captain that isn't played by Shatner as he retired from the role as lead in the 80s. Be it later Star Trek II in the 70s, or a Star Trek III in the 80s that is redubbed "The Next Generation" when Shatner bows out.
Deep Space Nine equivalent is the first real spin-off to not take place on the Enterprise and deals with a station.
Voyager comes when Paramount decides to retire the old Enterprise from TV for good, perhaps going back to movies again like they did after the end of Star Trek II.
Enterprise comes about as a reboot/prequel series about the days before Kirk. It either deals with the founding of the Federation, or maybe the days of Captain Robert April and young officer Pike. April who was mentioned in TAS, and perhaps is used a s guest start during the run of Star Trek II has to be played by a new actor, as does Pike. After their run they realize they've run into the time Kirk and Spock should be joining Starfleet and recast for them as well.
If a founding of the Federation series is used, they design the Ringship Enterprise based on Vulcan tech to be the first technological union of peace prior to the formation of the Federation. However Vulcan's enemies are suspect of the humans using Vulcan-hybrid tech, and the new human explorers have to make friends, fight enemies and make a mountain of mistakes before the Romulans force a united front of sometimes friends, sometimes enemies into a United Front to become a Federation.
Basically if we get rid of stuff for more TOS, I want the stuff lost to come back in some way as well. As a sign that more TOS would make the show popular enough to continue naturally, instead of just a a cult in sydication that grew until it demanded to be put back on a screen.
The only willing way I'd sacrifice what we got is if it came with a better deal.
A better deal?
A fourth and fifth seasons of TOS. The full Five Year mission. Maybe with elements of TAS thrown in as possible given the technology barriers of the day. Perhaps TAS as a set of non-Five Year mission pieces, or fill-in missions that cover what you couldn't do with live action very well in 1970. Then Star Trek II not long after that. A refit of Enterprise and some updating, but more or less the same show. Then after five years of that, some movies (the actors would probably hate that they'd been typecast after 12 to 15 years playing the same roles even if they were going to start getting motion picture grade paychecks as oppose to steady work on TV or a year or two of voice acting inbetween while sets were rebuilt.
After a few films or even during Star Trek II, the cast starts to retire, perhaps as they are slowly replaced with new actors to continue the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.
Maybe no TNG/DS9/VOY as we know them. But maybe they would still come about. Just that TNG would be the continuing adventures of the Enterprise under a captain that isn't played by Shatner as he retired from the role as lead in the 80s. Be it later Star Trek II in the 70s, or a Star Trek III in the 80s that is redubbed "The Next Generation" when Shatner bows out.
Deep Space Nine equivalent is the first real spin-off to not take place on the Enterprise and deals with a station.
Voyager comes when Paramount decides to retire the old Enterprise from TV for good, perhaps going back to movies again like they did after the end of Star Trek II.
Enterprise comes about as a reboot/prequel series about the days before Kirk. It either deals with the founding of the Federation, or maybe the days of Captain Robert April and young officer Pike. April who was mentioned in TAS, and perhaps is used a s guest start during the run of Star Trek II has to be played by a new actor, as does Pike. After their run they realize they've run into the time Kirk and Spock should be joining Starfleet and recast for them as well.
If a founding of the Federation series is used, they design the Ringship Enterprise based on Vulcan tech to be the first technological union of peace prior to the formation of the Federation. However Vulcan's enemies are suspect of the humans using Vulcan-hybrid tech, and the new human explorers have to make friends, fight enemies and make a mountain of mistakes before the Romulans force a united front of sometimes friends, sometimes enemies into a United Front to become a Federation.
Basically if we get rid of stuff for more TOS, I want the stuff lost to come back in some way as well. As a sign that more TOS would make the show popular enough to continue naturally, instead of just a a cult in sydication that grew until it demanded to be put back on a screen.
Noname Given, we seem to hold similar views re: favorite Trek series, and I submit that characterization is the key. TOS, DS9, and ENT all rely on detailed and thoughtful characterization to be effective, whereas the characters in TNG and Voyager feel wooden at times. I would keep "The Emissary" episode in TNG because it provides insight into Worf's character that DS9 will draw upon later. However, I'd gladly scrap "Whom Gods Destroy" (TOS S3) because it inexplicably forgets that Spock can meld, which has long since become integral to his character. (In fact, Leonard Nimoy complained about the script.)
There you are--my two cents. Perhaps two credits would be apropos, although I'm afraid they wouldn't buy you a tribble.
That's far too subjective, since there's some who actually like that season of ENT (or the entire series). However, you are asking us to offer a sacrifice, so I will toss DS9, the NG movies, Voyager and ENT as sacrifices. It is much content to give up, just to get another 20-something episodes...but hey, i'm generous like that.
It's interesting you say that because TOS, DS9, and ENT are my three favorite series, and I agree about TNG and VOY. I guess I'm a characterization kind of guy.
And I'm a characterization kind of gal. Are we a dying breed, or am I just being pessimistic?
Do you have a favorite character or characters in TOS? If so, what would you change, if anything, about their characterization or actions?
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Sorry, late meeting with the Lawyers.
Alright, here is my Proposal:
I will Trade;
Every Frame; out takes, deleted scenes and bloopers included, of Enterprise.
Every note of the Theme Song
Not the Posters and other images of T'Pol
The TOS Episode, "Spock's Brain"
Riley
Trelane
Wesley
Tasha
Troi
Anti-Time
Pulaski
Portions of Voyager, to be mutually agreed upon
Neelix
Kes
Any mention, however oblique, of Harry in a relationship with 7 of 9
Decker
Any Special Effect even slightly resembling an Anus or other human orifice
Spock going into an Anus
Dinosaurs on an Ice Planet
A Lens Flare Count averaging more than 10 per 30 seconds of film
NuCarol NuMarcus
NuKhan
SuperBlood Rejuvination
For;
An 8th Season of Deep Space 9
(Caveat: *all mention of Sisko as a Founder or a Prophet or Whatever, Removed...dream sequence it or hololucination.
*Jake. (Sorry, non-negotiable or no deal)
A 4th Season of TOS
(Caveat: *with a real budget)
Alright, here is my Proposal:
I will Trade;
Every Frame; out takes, deleted scenes and bloopers included, of Enterprise.
Every note of the Theme Song
Not the Posters and other images of T'Pol
The TOS Episode, "Spock's Brain"
Riley
Trelane
Wesley
Tasha
Troi
Anti-Time
Pulaski
Portions of Voyager, to be mutually agreed upon
Neelix
Kes
Any mention, however oblique, of Harry in a relationship with 7 of 9
Decker
Any Special Effect even slightly resembling an Anus or other human orifice
Spock going into an Anus
Dinosaurs on an Ice Planet
A Lens Flare Count averaging more than 10 per 30 seconds of film
NuCarol NuMarcus
NuKhan
SuperBlood Rejuvination
For;
An 8th Season of Deep Space 9
(Caveat: *all mention of Sisko as a Founder or a Prophet or Whatever, Removed...dream sequence it or hololucination.
*Jake. (Sorry, non-negotiable or no deal)
A 4th Season of TOS
(Caveat: *with a real budget)
While I agree characterisation is key to good stroy telling, some of the ENT characters where hardly thoughtful and detailed, i.e. Mayweather and Hoshi
This is an ingenious thread! Way better than the usual way of exploring people's varying tastes in Trek.
And this?...
OTOH, this...
With that said, my own answer? Well, first of all, I'd cheerfully throw all of Voyager, the Abrams films, and STV:TFF under the bus for free, no trade required. The average quality level of the Trek that remained would rise dramatically.
Beyond that, though? For a fourth season of live-action Star Trek, the original series, made in 1969-70 with the original cast and the best writers, directors, and budget available at the time?
Well hell.
I'd give up all the above plus all of Enterprise, every movie after #6, and probably all of TNG. (Except maybe "Yesterday's Enterprise." I still think that episode stands head and shoulders above the rest of the series. But then again, without the rest for context, I'm not sure it would mean much to me.) Probably about half of DS9 as well, for that matter, if you pushed me.
TOS is Ur-Trek. It's the real thing, everything else is derivative. It's just intrinsically worth more.
It's like asking "how much of Kobe Bryant's career would you be willing to sacrifice for one more season of Michael Jordan playing at his peak?" The only sensible answer is "all of it, where do I sign?"
And this?...
...this is getting into the spirit of things! Yes.
OTOH, this...
...this is not in the spirit of things at all. Once you start cherry-picking, you can find something that's not-entirely-crap about almost any show ever made. But it's not a math equation! Set all that aside, and remember that the original question involved the word "sacrifice."
With that said, my own answer? Well, first of all, I'd cheerfully throw all of Voyager, the Abrams films, and STV:TFF under the bus for free, no trade required. The average quality level of the Trek that remained would rise dramatically.
Beyond that, though? For a fourth season of live-action Star Trek, the original series, made in 1969-70 with the original cast and the best writers, directors, and budget available at the time?
Well hell.
I'd give up all the above plus all of Enterprise, every movie after #6, and probably all of TNG. (Except maybe "Yesterday's Enterprise." I still think that episode stands head and shoulders above the rest of the series. But then again, without the rest for context, I'm not sure it would mean much to me.) Probably about half of DS9 as well, for that matter, if you pushed me.
TOS is Ur-Trek. It's the real thing, everything else is derivative. It's just intrinsically worth more.
It's like asking "how much of Kobe Bryant's career would you be willing to sacrifice for one more season of Michael Jordan playing at his peak?" The only sensible answer is "all of it, where do I sign?"
Better things????
What 'better things' are those because it sure as hell isn't TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT.
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