• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Reasons to be happy / not happy about a 4th film.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

I'm not precious about the new Star Trek movie stealing TSFS's number, but I do think there is a good marketing idea which will probably be overlooked:
Around the time Beyond comes out, they should reissue TWOK, TSFS and TVH in one inexpensive package, with visual design tying it to NuTrek, and the title "The Original Star Trek Trilogy". I think NuTrek fans hyped for the new movie would be glad of an easy way to access the best of old Trek.

Oh, Timewalker, I thoroughly recommend the new APES movies, which are actually very good films. Feel free to skip the Tim Burton version, though. :)
I tried to watch Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and lasted about three minutes....


Have you seen DAWN? It's very much a remake of BATTLE, but much, much better.

The original 1968 movie is still, of course, the best of the bunch, old and new, and one of my very favorite films.

I was never really hooked by the Apes series. I've only seen the first two, but have been so impressed with the new ones, I've picked up a Bluray box of the old ones to watch.

Is it true that they form a connected continuity somehow, like Trek and NuTrek ?
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Since we're on this tangent, I finally saw DAWN OF THE PLANET OF THE APES last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm curious if they're going to eventually re (re) make the original.

I'm not aware of any link between the old and new, except that RISE and DAWN may as well be alternate backstory to the original (jettisoning it's prequels and sequels)
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

If they do a TV series at some point too (unlikely due to complicated legal issues)
I keep seeing this said, but if Marvel and Sony could work out Spiderman in the MCU movies.... well, I'm not saying it isn't unlikely, just that that makes it seem less unlikely. If there's an assload of money to be made, people try hard to work things out. :)
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

One thing is that referring to the nuTrek films as ST1, ST2, and ST3 is a way of letting people know that you don't need to be familiar with the previous ten films to follow what's going on. It indicates that these films are accessible on their own.
There really weren't that many TOS/TNG movies that required familiarity to enjoy. The Search For Spock and The Voyage Home are sequels to The Wrath of Khan.

That is a definite plus, especially if you're trying to attract a new generation of viewers.

For better or for worse, there used to be a perception out there that you needed to be a Trekkie to really enjoy STAR TREK, that it was too complicated to get into if you hadn't seen all the previous movies and shows. That it was too late to climb aboard if you weren't already a dedicated Trekkie.

In reality, I think TREK was always more accessible than that. You can watch the average TREK movie or TNG episode without having to speak Klingon or whatever. But the perception was definitely out there; I used to run into it at neighborhood barbecues, family reunions, bookstore signings, etc.

"I don't get STAR TREK. It's too complicated."
...

There comes a point where long Roman numerals after the title become a liability, discouraging newcomers from seeing the movie.
Of course you don't need to already be a fan to enjoy Star Trek. The first TOS episode I ever saw all the way through was "By Any Other Name." Fortunately it was interesting enough to get me to want to see more. If it had been "Spock's Brain" or "The Omega Glory" I might not have bothered and my life would have been very different (amazing how many of my life choices happened because of one hour of TV in November of 1975...).

Contrast that with Doctor Who - the first full episode of that I saw was part 1 of "Pirate Planet" and the only reason I watched the next episode is because I'd promised a friend to give the series an honest try. So I slogged through one of the dumbest stories of the late Tom Baker era (although it did turn out to have a bit of interesting social commentary I hadn't picked up on at the time), and finally got hooked when I saw the wonderful "Stones of Blood."

So it can matter very much which episode, story, or movie is a person's first exposure, and how much information the new viewer has around them. I remember well-meaning friends deluging me with information about Xena, Babylon 5, Robin of Sherwood, and Highlander, and just wanting to tell them to shut up and let me take it at my own pace - I'd ask questions if there was something I didn't understand, but just stop telling me about it.

It went back to the basics -- selling the characters, clean and simple, unfettered by having to bear in mind what happened in "episode seventeen of the fifth season of a series," and "episode twenty of the third season of another series," or "episode two of the last season of yet another series." And who the hell knows what's being contradicted or retconned, even if one's being careful.

This Trek is like watching TOS for the first time, again. True terra incognita for the first time since 1966.
But since most of us originally saw TOS out of order anyway (the first time, at any rate, unless the first time was an accurately-numbered DVD set), what difference does it make? Even now, I couldn't correctly place all the TOS episodes in their correct season if my life depended on it.

There seems to be a trend toward deriving very concise titles for a remake or sequel from its more verbose ancestor, either from title or story.

"Gone with the Wind" might become simply "Wind" or "Tara" and so forth.

Using "Trek" as a connecting verb ("Into Darkness," "Beyond") is a little too clever or cute for my sensibilities.
If I saw that a movie was just called "Beyond," my first reaction would be "beyond what?"

You can actually see the phenomenon at work in STAR TREK, where flowery titles like "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" or "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" gave way to simpler titles like "Contagion" or "Cathexis" or whatever.

There are exceptions, of course. TOS had "Obsession" and "The Menagerie" and the latter-day shows occasionally let loose with something more elaborate, but, in general, the modern shows seemed to prefer shorter, simpler titles than TOS.
The simpler titles of TNG and later series pretty much guaranteed that when people cite an episode title to me, chances are that I won't have any idea what they're talking about unless it's one I know very well myself. Like the ones above - I'm not even sure what series they're from, let alone which season or what they were about.

I used to play a memory game: Write down all the titles of the Star Trek episodes (TOS, obviously, as the other series didn't exist at that time). I had little mnemonic reminders such as episodes containing punctuation, episodes about time travel, episodes that were funny, episodes with a Shakespeare reference, episodes that were really long, and episodes that were only one word. I always did very well at this. But I wouldn't have a hope of succeeding at a similar exercise with TNG and later.
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

There really weren't that many TOS/TNG movies that required familiarity to enjoy.
That is so completely not the point.
It may not be your point, but it was my point. It's just silly to pretend that the TOS movies were sooooo complicated that you needed a university degree in Star Trek to even get into the theatre. My dad hadn't seen much of the TOS series, nor had he seen The Wrath of Khan or The Search For Spock. But that didn't stop him from thoroughly enjoying The Voyage Home.
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

There really weren't that many TOS/TNG movies that required familiarity to enjoy.
That is so completely not the point.
It may not be your point, but it was my point. It's just silly to pretend that the TOS movies were sooooo complicated that you needed a university degree in Star Trek to even get into the theatre. My dad hadn't seen much of the TOS series, nor had he seen The Wrath of Khan or The Search For Spock. But that didn't stop him from thoroughly enjoying The Voyage Home.

Which is what the studio wanted, and why Final Frontier failed, because it wasn't what the studio wanted.

So it goes with Trek 09. The idea was to provide something accessible to the audiences, as well as acknowledging Trek history.

The point may not be that Trek films were complicated, but when there is a series, people (as Greg Cox noted) feel intimidated to get in to the series. It is as much the perception of back story as it is the actual back story.

For what its worth, I think that Trek 09 struck the balance quite well between new audiences and familiar audiences. My dad has watched TOS since its initial run, and my brother is a Trek fan preferring VOY, and DS9. My wife, in contrast, did not find any of the TOS films enjoyable. All three of them enjoy the Abrams films.
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

There really weren't that many TOS/TNG movies that required familiarity to enjoy.
That is so completely not the point.
It may not be your point, but it was my point. It's just silly to pretend that the TOS movies were sooooo complicated that you needed a university degree in Star Trek to even get into the theatre. My dad hadn't seen much of the TOS series, nor had he seen The Wrath of Khan or The Search For Spock. But that didn't stop him from thoroughly enjoying The Voyage Home.

Yeah, but I never claimed that any of the first ten films require "a university degree in Star Trek." What you're saying doesn't refute what I said, and it doesn't mesh with what I said, so I'm honestly at a loss here why you even brought it up in reply to what I said.

The point may not be that Trek films were complicated, but when there is a series, people (as Greg Cox noted) feel intimidated to get in to the series. It is as much the perception of back story as it is the actual back story.
Exactly.
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

There really weren't that many TOS/TNG movies that required familiarity to enjoy.
That is so completely not the point.
It may not be your point, but it was my point. It's just silly to pretend that the TOS movies were sooooo complicated that you needed a university degree in Star Trek to even get into the theatre. My dad hadn't seen much of the TOS series, nor had he seen The Wrath of Khan or The Search For Spock. But that didn't stop him from thoroughly enjoying The Voyage Home.

I agree. Like I said, there was a perception that TREK was too complicated, even if that wasn't actually the case in reality. And it was that perception that was possibly becoming a barrier to attracting new fans.

And it's possible us hardcore fan type contributed to that perception by so enthusiastically (and vocally) obsessing over minutiae and continuity. As you noted, we've all encountered the truly evangelical fan who insists that you can't really appreciate TREK or X-FILES or XENA unless you know all the continuity leading up to episode 37 .....

The trick is figuring out how to take advantage of a show's long history without intimidating newcomers and giving them the impression that it's too late to climb about the speeding train.

As for titles .. . yeah, I also find the old TOS titles easier to remember than something like "Cathexis" or "Descent."

Although, to be fair, I have known people to mix up "All Our Yesterdays" with "Yesterday is Tomorrow," or to confuse "The Paradise Syndrome" with "This Side of Paradise."

And understandably so!
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Although, to be fair, I have known people to mix up "All Our Yesterdays" with "Yesterday is Tomorrow,"

Or "Tomorrow Is Yesterday"! :)

My point exactly! :)

And now I'm going to get another cup of coffee ....

But first, it probably also helps that a lot of TOS titles are literal enough that it's impossible to forget that "Gamesters of Triskelion" is the one about, well, the Gamesters of Triskelion, or that "Court Martial" is the one where Kirk faces a court martial, etc.

As opposed to more abstract titles like "Redemption" or "Divergence" or whatever.
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

"E²"

Now that's concise. (Memory Alpha: "E²" is shorter than "Q2" by only half a character, making it the shortest episode title in Star Trek).
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

"E²"

Now that's concise. (Memory Alpha: "E²" is shorter than "Q2" by only half a character, making it the shortest episode title in Star Trek).

That's the one with two Picards, right?

I wonder, is "For the World is Hollow . . ." the longest title?
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

"E²"

Now that's concise. (Memory Alpha: "E²" is shorter than "Q2" by only half a character, making it the shortest episode title in Star Trek).

That's the one with two Picards, right?

I wonder, is "For the World is Hollow . . ." the longest title?


I think "Time Squared" is the one with two Picards, wasn't "E2" an Enterprise episode one of the Xindi arc?
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Yes.

I'm usually good remembering most of the titles from TOS and TNG, but the rest are always a crapshoot. I can generally identify what show, but that's about as far as it goes - I couldn't tell you what the shit "Cathexis" is about but I know it's a Voyager episode, etc.
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

I never claimed that any of the first ten films require "a university degree in Star Trek."
I don't remember putting your name inside quote tags and saying you did make that claim. It's how I interpreted your post.
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

I don't remember what this conversation is even about, lol.
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

I never claimed that any of the first ten films require "a university degree in Star Trek."
I don't remember putting your name inside quote tags and saying you did make that claim. It's how I interpreted your post.
So, the reason I posted there that I didn't claim that is because your interpretation of what I said didn't match what I said. Or what I meant. Just in the way of clarification, OK?
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

"E²"

Now that's concise. (Memory Alpha: "E²" is shorter than "Q2" by only half a character, making it the shortest episode title in Star Trek).

That's the one with two Picards, right?

I wonder, is "For the World is Hollow . . ." the longest title?


I think "Time Squared" is the one with two Picards, wasn't "E2" an Enterprise episode one of the Xindi arc?

Time squared ... E squared . . . guess I got them mixed up.
 
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

I can go one better and say It was a Chakotay episode, but that's about it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top