Star Trek: Renegades

[Tom]

It quite surprises me that Renegades hasn't "leaked" online. That's not to say I want it to happen but when you offer copies to a few hundred people, it's unusual for it to stay on the downlow. All props for the fans though for abiding by the rules.

It was actually closer to 3000, from fans all over the world (we get all the ip's and location stats). It was setup on a professional streaming service using some encryption protocols. If it was on Youtube it would have been ripped in minutes.

We did a similar service when we premiered STOGAM in 2007.

 

[Mudd]

And Maurice, no offence man, but after reading your posts in this section for years here, you don't generally care for any fan film except for Exeter, because you worked on it. Just saying...

Honestly, that's completely inaccurate and is pretty much the reaction of someone who's ox just got gored.

Maurice has a pretty consistent and specific set of standards for these things and the expertise to base his evaluations on. If you want a fairly representative example of his opinions, check out the recent "request for fan film recommendations" thread.

People here have been pretty generous in giving Renegades the benefit of the doubt up until now, all things considered, but once you actually show people the thing you've got to live with the public reactions.

But hey, most people on your Facebook page like it so you've got that going for you.

 

[Tom]

I was hoping many of the backers would write some reviews, not to many out there though.

 

[Kastrol]

It quite surprises me that Renegades hasn't "leaked" online. That's not to say I want it to happen but when you offer copies to a few hundred people, it's unusual for it to stay on the downlow. All props for the fans though for abiding by the rules.

It was actually closer to 3000, from fans all over the world (we get all the ip's and location stats). It was setup on a professional streaming service using some encryption protocols. If it was on Youtube it would have been ripped in minutes.

We did a similar service when we premiered STOGAM in 2007.

Well in the interests of transparency, I did download a copy for my own personal use as my computer doesn't like to stream. Major props on the system you used, it's not used often and is very successful to prevent the usual obvious ripping methods.

In terms of the episode, I enjoyed it as a fan film - maybe one of the very best fan films - but I couldn't recommend it as a TV pilot. However, like I said, very good work. If nothing else, it was great seeing Picardo again!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And Maurice, no offence man, but after reading your posts in this section for years here, you don't generally care for any fan film except for Exeter, because you worked on it. Just saying...

Honestly, that's completely inaccurate and is pretty much the reaction of someone who's ox just got gored.

Maurice has a pretty consistent and specific set of standards for these things and the expertise to base his evaluations on. If you want a fairly representative example of his opinions, check out the recent "request for fan film recommendations" thread.

Yep. That's just what I was thinking on reading that. That list of recommendations would be here.

 

[Tom]

It quite surprises me that Renegades hasn't "leaked" online. That's not to say I want it to happen but when you offer copies to a few hundred people, it's unusual for it to stay on the downlow. All props for the fans though for abiding by the rules.

It was actually closer to 3000, from fans all over the world (we get all the ip's and location stats). It was setup on a professional streaming service using some encryption protocols. If it was on Youtube it would have been ripped in minutes.

We did a similar service when we premiered STOGAM in 2007.

Well in the interests of transparency, I did download a copy for my own personal use as my computer doesn't like to stream. Major props on the system you used, it's not used often and is very successful to prevent the usual obvious ripping methods.

In terms of the episode, I enjoyed it as a fan film - maybe one of the very best fan films - but I couldn't recommend it as a TV pilot. However, like I said, very good work. If nothing else, it was great seeing Picardo again!

I'm guessing you used a screen recording software like SnagIt or Camtasia. That's the only way you can easily do it since sewing up stream packets are pretty tough. I had to do a lot of research to get the right service.

As for the film. Keep in mind that this is a proof of concept. We know CBS can not show the film, as it is, on TV (or their streaming channel) for legal reasons (the unions would eat them alive!). It is, more or less, 'this is where we think the next Star Trek series should be' (a little better than a Power Point presentation ). If they were interested, they would commission a second pilot to be shot in there own studios and standards. For a little under 400k we have done the best we can to make a film for the fans.

Now Axanar is the next big test with 700k made, and another big Kickstarter on the way. What can they pull off with over a million (maybe 1.5 mill) dollars.

 

[Kastrol]

It was actually closer to 3000, from fans all over the world (we get all the ip's and location stats). It was setup on a professional streaming service using some encryption protocols. If it was on Youtube it would have been ripped in minutes.

We did a similar service when we premiered STOGAM in 2007.

Well in the interests of transparency, I did download a copy for my own personal use as my computer doesn't like to stream. Major props on the system you used, it's not used often and is very successful to prevent the usual obvious ripping methods.

In terms of the episode, I enjoyed it as a fan film - maybe one of the very best fan films - but I couldn't recommend it as a TV pilot. However, like I said, very good work. If nothing else, it was great seeing Picardo again!

I'm guessing you used a screen recording software like SnagIt or Camtasia. That's the only way you can easily do it since sewing up stream packets are pretty tough. I had to do a lot of research to get the right service.

As for the film. Keep in mind that this is a proof of concept. We know CBS can not show the film, as it is, on TV (or their streaming channel) for legal reasons (the unions would eat them alive!). It is, more or less, 'this is where we think the next Star Trek series should be' (a little better than a Power Point presentation ). If they were interested, they would commission a second pilot to be shot in there own studios and standards. For a little under 400k we have done the best we can to make a film for the fans.

Now Axanar is the next big test with 700k made, and another big Kickstarter on the way. What can they pull off with over a million (maybe 1.5 mill) dollars.

I actually did it the "stream packets" method, Tom. It's not something commonly used though, so like I say, you probably chose the best possible option.

 

[Tom]

Well in the interests of transparency, I did download a copy for my own personal use as my computer doesn't like to stream. Major props on the system you used, it's not used often and is very successful to prevent the usual obvious ripping methods.

In terms of the episode, I enjoyed it as a fan film - maybe one of the very best fan films - but I couldn't recommend it as a TV pilot. However, like I said, very good work. If nothing else, it was great seeing Picardo again!

I'm guessing you used a screen recording software like SnagIt or Camtasia. That's the only way you can easily do it since sewing up stream packets are pretty tough. I had to do a lot of research to get the right service.

As for the film. Keep in mind that this is a proof of concept. We know CBS can not show the film, as it is, on TV (or their streaming channel) for legal reasons (the unions would eat them alive!). It is, more or less, 'this is where we think the next Star Trek series should be' (a little better than a Power Point presentation ). If they were interested, they would commission a second pilot to be shot in there own studios and standards. For a little under 400k we have done the best we can to make a film for the fans.

Now Axanar is the next big test with 700k made, and another big Kickstarter on the way. What can they pull off with over a million (maybe 1.5 mill) dollars.

I actually did it the "stream packets" method, Tom. It's not something commonly used though, so like I say, you probably chose the best possible option.

Smart guy, Yes that is the best option, but there is nothing that is foolproof when it comes to preventing copying of internet video. When the final version comes out, most of the backers have the option to download anyways. We just did not want the unfinished screener version floating around out there, when the final version is done.

 

[Maurice]

To be fair I've dissected every single film I've ever watched, even the ones I like, because enjoying something does not mean one has to turn a blind eye to its faults (conversely I'll always admit to good things in films I don't like). I've praised "Lolani" as perhaps the best fanfilm I've ever seen (even while pointing out its flaws), and anyone who's seen my many many posts on Exeter over the years knows that I've picked on its weaknesses as much as anything (looking right at you, endless voiceover on briefing room scene in Act Three).

The fact is—and I've said this for years—FIX IT ON THE PAGE. I'm very much prepared to forgive weak acting, clumsy sets, and lame VFX, but if the story isn't good, the whole thing becomes a big "don't bother". The script is the cheapest thing to fix, and yet it resolutely remains the Achilles heel of most fan productions. The main thing I like about TTI happens to be the script, which is properly constructed, right down to the midpoint twist/context shift moment in the middle of the second act (and Dennis and I were not friends when I read the script: that came 5 years later). Had a very small low-budget production like Potemkin done a script of similar caliber, I'd still hold it in higher regards than a "Blood and Fire" because in the end the only thing that matters is telling a good story.


P.S. Also, I'd like to shamelessly point out that I started and for years maintained the Fan Filmmaker and Fan Film Writers Primer topics here, which share a lot of info for beginners, all in the spirit of trying to help fan filmmakers make better films. If all I wanted to do was take potshots I could do so with a lot less effort.

 

[Tom]

Thank's Maurice, I think I was grumpy because I did not have any coffee this morning. lol

 

[USS Intrepid]

And Maurice, no offence man, but after reading your posts in this section for years here, you don't generally care for any fan film except for Exeter, because you worked on it. Just saying...

This is patently unfair and a completely false accusation. Maurice is always tough but fair (if not always diplomatic). And in all honestly, I completely agree with his assessment.

I am glad I was able to support the production, I have no regrets that I did so, but I honestly didn't care for it. It was pretty, the effects work (at least what was finished) was excellent. But the script and the pacing just didn't work for me. Sorry.

 

[Tom]

That's cool Nick. not all productions are for everyone. I liked 'White Iris' but yet it got some detractors, everyone has there own opinions.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Respectfully, I think the issues go beyond "opinion". It's not too late to address some of the points Maurice makes, if you're so inclined. But I don't see much purpose in belabouring it. Regardless, congratulations on your efforts, I'm genuinely glad you're proud of it.

 

[Mudd]

Everyone has an absolute equal right to express an opinion; all opinions are not equally informed or useful.

 

[Tom]

Everyone has an absolute equal right to express an opinion; all opinions are not equally informed or useful.

That would make a good signature

 

[MikeH92467]

Writing reviews is a tricky business. If you're overly effusive with the praise it can look like a put up job and if you're too critical it can lead readers to question (quite properly) one's qualifications to do so. Maurice has the goods on all counts when it comes to being qualified. Whether everyone is going to agree with his conclusions is a different matter, but no one can argue that he expresses informed opinions.

The hardest part is trying to figure out just what standard to judge a production by. For example if a critic is reviewing a broadway play they are going to have certain expectations. If they are reviewing an amateur community theater production they should have a different standard.

With fan films those lines can be awfully blurred. "Renegades" asked for donations while playing up all the "professional" talent involved and thus set themselves up for judgement based on that. Shows like Intrepid and Potemkin have told some very interesting stories despite relatively limited financial resources and experienced talent on either side of the camera and should be reviewed accordingly without falling into a condescending, head-patting "that's nice" mode. It's not an easy thing to do.

 

[E-DUB]

Gosh, where to begin on something like this. First off, these are, if not amateur productions, at least low-budget ones. No one has yet come up with something as great as TOS at its best, like say "City" or "Balance of Terror" or "Doomsday". It that's your criteria, pack it up right now.

My criteria, as a consumer, is for more simple. Did I enjoy it? Would I tell a friend about it? Did I feel that my time was well spent? If those are answered "Yes", then, hey, I'm happy.

Let people chatter, as they undoubtedly will, about this or that. In the end the product is all that matters, and the more that is produced, the likelier it becomes that something will come forth that equals, or even surpasses, the source material.

That's my opinion, assign whatever value to it that you like.

 

[DCR]

Something like Renegades in particular is always going to be on the harder edge of the scale to judge. On the one hand, it's a largely professional cast with people reprising roles they had in official productions. On the other hand, it's working within the constraints of a fan film, including a relatively minuscule budget, probably less than a modern SF show would use for a single episode, and with costs the single episode doesn't have to defray.

In many ways I think E-DUB has it right: From a viewer's perspective it all comes down to whether it's worth the time spent watching it. Not everything is worth the time, but some fan films can be exceptional.

It also depends on the nature of the film in question, too. For example, while a deep character study is easier to do on a low budget than an effects-laden spectacular, I find that the failure mode of a space battle episode is often more forgiving.

In the end, it's all entertainment, so the defining question is "Was it entertaining?"

 

[Amaris]

Gosh, where to begin on something like this. First off, these are, if not amateur productions, at least low-budget ones. No one has yet come up with something as great as TOS at its best, like say "City" or "Balance of Terror" or "Doomsday". It that's your criteria, pack it up right now.

My criteria, as a consumer, is for more simple. Did I enjoy it? Would I tell a friend about it? Did I feel that my time was well spent? If those are answered "Yes", then, hey, I'm happy.

Let people chatter, as they undoubtedly will, about this or that. In the end the product is all that matters, and the more that is produced, the likelier it becomes that something will come forth that equals, or even surpasses, the source material.

That's my opinion, assign whatever value to it that you like.

If my criteria is something like "City", why should I pack up? "City" is an excellent episode because of the writing and the acting, not because of the budget. You start with a solid script, get someone capable to act it out, you don't need a million dollars to hit a home run.

To put it another way, if I can go to a play, get swept up in it, and enjoy it, it's not because I could see the back of the stage, or the cardboard sets, it's because the words and actions of the principles were competent and engaging. I realize that's not always possible to achieve, for every fanfilm group, but my expectations for a quality cast and script shouldn't be considered too far gone to the point where I have to "pack it up" and leave.

 

[Karzak]

Those are all fine perspectives to have, but they are your own individual perspectives, colored and informed by your own tastes, experiences, and opinions.

I can certainly understand why a working professional in Hollywood like Maurice would have the response and opinion he had to the film. He's as welcome and as justified to have it as any of us are and considering things from his vantage point, I absolutely see the logic in expecting more from a production that not only benefited from the access to (some) money and (some) professional actors and crew.

There's nothing really wrong with having that expectation. I watched "Renegades" myself and I have my own thoughts on it brewing at the moment, but I felt the need to repeat this particular thought first.