Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens

[CorporalCaptain]

Some of the EU if I remember correctly had the Death Star II under construction as far back as the time of the first movie, possibly at the same time as the original.

Well that's utterly ridiculous, because the opening crawl of ROTJ clearly states:

"Little does Luke know that the GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly begun construction on a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star."

 

[Richard Baker]

Some of the EU if I remember correctly had the Death Star II under construction as far back as the time of the first movie, possibly at the same time as the original. That, and the 'local systems' line in the first movie (as well as a ROTJ draft and concept art featuring two Death Stars under construction!), makes you wonder if Lucas (or later the EU writers) intended the Death Stars to be sort of all over the place, each keeping watch over different sectors or something, or as sort of a hub for the fleets as well.

That concept art showing two spherical stations under construction were not Death Stars- IIRC they were planetary defenses called 'Torpedo Spheres', smaller orbital devices intended to defend against capital ship attacks. The idea was dropped but I think they surfaced in a novel or two.

 

[fireproof78]

An excellent contribution on the part of the Expanded Universe, in particular the Darth novels. The Sith played a very, very long game, secure in the ruthless efficiency of their chosen organizational structure.

And combined with the Old Republic's increasing and accelerating corruption and the Jedi Order's cocksure faith in its own powers and abilities to maintain peace and order within the galaxy that's why I think the Sith were destined to overpower and overthrow the Republic whether or not a "Chosen One" conceived by the midichlorians fell to the Dark Side and became one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history.

The Sith simply had too many tentacles in every corner of both the Republic and outlying powers and with or without the Clone Wars there would have been some catastrophic event or series of events that toppled the democratic order and placed a Sith Master on the throne of a totalitarian regime. Palpatine/Sidious and his series of apprentices just happened to have access to the greatest power and technology and the most cunning ideas with which to decay the Republic from within by turning it upon itself with the Separatist movement, the Clone Army and the resulting wars.

Part of the advantage the Sith had is they have no scruples with using everyone to their purposes. Being in the shadows for a 1,000 years means you have time to network...of evil

I agree that Palpatine had access to tech to allow them to destabilize the Republic from within, but they also had connections to destablize it from without. They constantly picked away at it, without actually making a blatant move until one of their own was inside.

And the Republic and the Jedi just moves on its merry way. It would be tragic if they were not presented as being so stupid in the Prequels. The EU and novelization at least lend some sympathy to the good guys.

 

[Jedi_Master]

In my opinion, Anakin was the Chosen One, who restored balance to the Force twice, once as a Jedi turning to the dark, he toppled the established Jedi Order, whose teachings and skewed priorities were turning the Order into a tyranny of light, and then secondly as a Sith when he toppled the dark reign of Darth Sidious, thus destroying the tyranny of darkness.

 

[RandyS]

An excellent contribution on the part of the Expanded Universe, in particular the Darth novels. The Sith played a very, very long game, secure in the ruthless efficiency of their chosen organizational structure.

And combined with the Old Republic's increasing and accelerating corruption and the Jedi Order's cocksure faith in its own powers and abilities to maintain peace and order within the galaxy that's why I think the Sith were destined to overpower and overthrow the Republic whether or not a "Chosen One" conceived by the midichlorians fell to the Dark Side and became one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history.

The Sith simply had too many tentacles in every corner of both the Republic and outlying powers and with or without the Clone Wars there would have been some catastrophic event or series of events that toppled the democratic order and placed a Sith Master on the throne of a totalitarian regime. Palpatine/Sidious and his series of apprentices just happened to have access to the greatest power and technology and the most cunning ideas with which to decay the Republic from within by turning it upon itself with the Separatist movement, the Clone Army and the resulting wars.

Interesting take. My understanding was that the Clone Wars was Palpatine's excuse for wiping out the Jedi. Two Sith lords, no matter how powerful, wouldn't have a hope in hell against 10,000 Jedi, so Sidious manufactured the separatist movement and as excuse to start a war, which in turn led to the creation of the clones so that when the time came, he could issue Order 66, and (he hoped) wipe the Jedi out.

Did I miss anything?

 

[RandyS]

Some of the EU if I remember correctly had the Death Star II under construction as far back as the time of the first movie, possibly at the same time as the original. That, and the 'local systems' line in the first movie (as well as a ROTJ draft and concept art featuring two Death Stars under construction!), makes you wonder if Lucas (or later the EU writers) intended the Death Stars to be sort of all over the place, each keeping watch over different sectors or something, or as sort of a hub for the fleets as well.

That would have made more sense. Only one Death star wasn't enough to keep the galaxy under control anyway. There should have been mention made of fleet of them.

That scene at the end of SITH where Vader and Sidious were watching the first one under construction should have had both of them in it, with the first one just a little further along.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I think the Force was behind the Sith takeover. The Force seems to need - and embody - balance above all else. Life and death, hate and love, pain and joy all are needed, but must be in balance.

 

[Venardhi]

Naw. It seems pretty clear that the "Dark Side" is a corruption of the force, a constipator that upsets the proper flow of the force in the universe. The Jedi may have skewed too far in the other direction with their monastic emotionless mumbo jumbo, but The Force is essentially a life force, not a death force.

 

[InklingStar]

Some of the EU if I remember correctly had the Death Star II under construction as far back as the time of the first movie, possibly at the same time as the original. That, and the 'local systems' line in the first movie (as well as a ROTJ draft and concept art featuring two Death Stars under construction!), makes you wonder if Lucas (or later the EU writers) intended the Death Stars to be sort of all over the place, each keeping watch over different sectors or something, or as sort of a hub for the fleets as well.

That would have made more sense. Only one Death star wasn't enough to keep the galaxy under control anyway. There should have been mention made of fleet of them.

That scene at the end of SITH where Vader and Sidious were watching the first one under construction should have had both of them in it, with the first one just a little further along.

I read somewhere, many years ago, a theory that the Empire simply could not make two Death Stars at the same time. The reason is that whichever commanders or moffs led each Death Star would try to seize power at some point, leading to the destruction of one by the other.

Now perhaps Palpatine feared that Tarkin or Vader might do just that, and began the construction of Death Star II in secret just in case, I don't know.

 

[Skywalker]

First rule in government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?

 

[Hound of UIster]

Naw. It seems pretty clear that the "Dark Side" is a corruption of the force, a constipator that upsets the proper flow of the force in the universe. The Jedi may have skewed too far in the other direction with their monastic emotionless mumbo jumbo, but The Force is essentially a life force, not a death force.

This is pretty much true. The corruption in the Republic mirrored the encroaching power of the Sith.

 

[Ithekro]

The first one took forever due to attempting to hide it from the Senate, plus labor difficulties and technology problems (Rebels or Jedi sympathizers kept blowing up the crystals needed for the Superlaser).

There is some theory about them building two more Death Stars. The prototype that was used to test the superlaser and power systems at the same time as the First Death Star. And a Third Death Star being built at the same time as the Second Death Star (this would be the one encountered in the original Star Tours ride at Disneyland). Not far from Endor.

 

[cooleddie74]

First rule in government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?

Let's hope that the new movies don't reintroduce another colossal Death Star-type megaweapon that can obliterate entire fleets or even planets with one salvo of its main armaments. One thing I didn't like about some of the old EU stories post-Jedi were the use of too many planet-killing weapons and devices that tried to replicate the sinister atmosphere of menace generated by the two Death Stars (and the first weapon in particular).

 

[Skywalker]

Most of those post-Jedi EU superweapons were introduced by Kevin J. Anderson, the master of hack writing. For a few years there in the mid-to-late '90s he was kind of the king of the EU. Those were dark days...

 

[cooleddie74]

Didn't the Clone Emperor use planet-smashers or some other kind of orbital superweapons in a few of those stories? I try to block many of the stories from that era from my memory because they were dumber than freshly-dropped eopie poop.

 

[Skywalker]

I only remember the Clone Emperor showing up in the Dark Empire and Empire's End comic books, in which, yes, two other superweapons appeared. One was called the World Devastator and basically hovered over the surface of a planet and used massive tractor beams to tear apart everything below. The other was called the Galaxy Gun and was literally a giant space gun that could blow up distant planets.

Those stories were all among the earliest EU efforts, so I'm not terribly surprised that they mimicked the OT's penchant for superweapons.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, Dark Empire came to mind a few moments ago, right before you posted your reply. It was a better post-Jedi story in the old EU canon than most of the ones that followed, I'll give it that. I was never fond of the Clone Emperor concept, but once the the Prequel Trilogy hit theaters and given how cloning technology and the quest for immortality are running themes in the Saga it would only make sense in hindsight for Palpatine to search for ways to retain his consciousness after physical death and become reborn in a fashion.

It just seems like something Palpatine as a Dark Lord of the Sith - and the most powerful Sith Master in a millennia - would do behind the walls of his Royal Palace on Coruscant.

 

[Hound of UIster]

George Lucas supposedly loved Dark Empire so much that he gave out the comic as Christmas Gifts to his employees. And of course some of the ideas in Veitch's Totj such as the Sith came directly from Lucas himself.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, Dark Empire came to mind a few moments ago, right before you posted your reply. It was a better post-Jedi story in the old EU canon than most of the ones that followed, I'll give it that. I was never fond of the Clone Emperor concept, but once the the Prequel Trilogy hit theaters and given how cloning technology and the quest for immortality are running themes in the Saga it would only make sense in hindsight for Palpatine to search for ways to retain his consciousness after physical death and become reborn in a fashion.

It just seems like something Palpatine as a Dark Lord of the Sith - and the most powerful Sith Master in a millennia - would do behind the walls of his Royal Palace on Coruscant.

The theme of questing for immortality definitely gives a different tinge to both Anakin and Obi-Wan's character in the PT. Again, the novel does such a fantastic job with Yoda communing with Qui-Gon regarding what the Sith are pursuing.

I think the clone Emperor is an interesting concept, but one that might have become a little tired. Also, its too bad that they abandoned the idea that clones grown too quickly go mad. Would have been interesting.

 

[HIjol]

First rule in government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?

LOVE a good "Contact" reference, any time!

The first one took forever due to attempting to hide it from the Senate, plus labor difficulties and technology problems (Rebels or Jedi sympathizers kept blowing up the crystals needed for the Superlaser).

There is some theory about them building two more Death Stars. The prototype that was used to test the superlaser and power systems at the same time as the First Death Star. And a Third Death Star being built at the same time as the Second Death Star (this would be the one encountered in the original Star Tours ride at Disneyland). Not far from Endor.

Second Star to the Right, and strai...no, stop it...

George Lucas supposedly loved Dark Empire so much that he gave out the comic as Christmas Gifts to his employees. And of course some of the ideas in Veitch's Totj such as the Sith came directly from Lucas himself.

Hope that is not all they got!