Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens

[cooleddie74]

George could do anything he wanted to his movies and since they're not public domain and don't legally belong to the public or the fandom as a whole then what we say about the changes has no legally-binding effect, nor should it, really, as much as we (justifiably) don't like some of the things he's done. Star Wars is a trademark and a private creation, not a United Nations World Heritage site.

All of that said: some of George's changes are just damn stupid and insulting to the intelligence of the fans and they're more annoying and distracting than they are supposed improvements to the films. He shouldn't have done some of them, and not from a "hey, these are my movies as much as they are yours" perspective or an entitled "I demand you leave everything I watched as a child as they originally were or else you're History's Greatest Monster" attitude, but because the changes don't work, they look idiotic or they don't make any logical sense either out-of-universe or within it.

Just because you can change something and it's your own creation and right to do so doesn't mean your changes are good ideas.

 

[DWF]

"moral rights of the artist"

That right there basically stops all serious rants against Lucas over Star Wars. He is the artist in question. Not some guy altering someone else's work. It is his story. His work. His films.

His problem is that he can't leave it at "good enough", like several painters that constantly want to touch up their art. Even when it is on display. Lucas' other problem is that he looks at his works in the technical sense, rather than the story sense, and does tweaks here and there that alter the intent of a scene. Mark Hamill called him on that when they added the scream to Luke falling on Cloud City (it was only on one version of the film. They took it out the next time around). Sort of like how Klingon makeup changes every year in Star Trek, so that you can still which season it is my looking at Worf or B'elanna. The artist couldn't stop tweeking his work, even if it made the characters look different in a feature that should always look the same.

With five different versions of Blade Runner out there, three versions of Star Trek TMP, two of TWOK and two TUC, plus the extended versions of all of Peter Jackson's reent movies, it's hard to totality lay the blame on Lucas. Many movies over the years have lost and regained scenes. The big thing anymore is fro people to wait for the director's cut on the DVD and more often than not it's the director's cut, it's the studio's cut.

 

[cooleddie74]

Although if you like the Kevin Smith movies his director's cuts and longer versions of his films can be the better versions. The theatrical version of Mallrats is nowhere near as good and not as funny as his Extended Version that was released on DVD for the 10th anniversary of the film, and all the additional scenes add important story context and fun character moments that were glaringly lacking in the original theatrical edit.

 

[RandyS]

"moral rights of the artist"

That right there basically stops all serious rants against Lucas over Star Wars. He is the artist in question. Not some guy altering someone else's work. It is his story. His work. His films.

His problem is that he can't leave it at "good enough", like several painters that constantly want to touch up their art. Even when it is on display. Lucas' other problem is that he looks at his works in the technical sense, rather than the story sense, and does tweaks here and there that alter the intent of a scene. Mark Hamill called him on that when they added the scream to Luke falling on Cloud City (it was only on one version of the film. They took it out the next time around). Sort of like how Klingon makeup changes every year in Star Trek, so that you can still which season it is my looking at Worf or B'elanna. The artist couldn't stop tweeking his work, even if it made the characters look different in a feature that should always look the same.

With five different versions of Blade Runner out there, three versions of Star Trek TMP, two of TWOK and two TUC, plus the extended versions of all of Peter Jackson's reent movies, it's hard to totality lay the blame on Lucas. Many movies over the years have lost and regained scenes. The big thing anymore is fro people to wait for the director's cut on the DVD and more often than not it's the director's cut, it's the studio's cut.

This goes to the heart of my complaint about the changes Lucas makes to the Star Wars films. It's not that he makes them, it's that once he makes them, the latest version becomes THE version, and all the older stuff is suddenly written off. What needs to happen is one big boxset (for both DVD and Blue ray) of ALL the versions, similar to that five version Blade Runner suitcase set you mention (I also own that).

Just think of all the money Lucas and Disney stand to make from such a megaset.

 

[martok2112]

Not movie related, but Fantasy Flight Games (which makes the X-Wing Miniatures game) is set to release a brand new Imperial corvette soon. I want one.

Nice looking ship! Seems to have TIE styled fins.

I have to check their site to see if they ever released the Imperial Star Destroyer.

I have the Corellian Corvette (Tantive IV) miniature, and it is freaking sweet! It is the best looking miniature representation I've seen of that ship, which is my favorite ship design in all of Star Wars.

 

[martok2112]

That right there basically stops all serious rants against Lucas over Star Wars. He is the artist in question. Not some guy altering someone else's work. It is his story. His work. His films.

His problem is that he can't leave it at "good enough", like several painters that constantly want to touch up their art. Even when it is on display. Lucas' other problem is that he looks at his works in the technical sense, rather than the story sense, and does tweaks here and there that alter the intent of a scene. Mark Hamill called him on that when they added the scream to Luke falling on Cloud City (it was only on one version of the film. They took it out the next time around). Sort of like how Klingon makeup changes every year in Star Trek, so that you can still which season it is my looking at Worf or B'elanna. The artist couldn't stop tweeking his work, even if it made the characters look different in a feature that should always look the same.

With five different versions of Blade Runner out there, three versions of Star Trek TMP, two of TWOK and two TUC, plus the extended versions of all of Peter Jackson's reent movies, it's hard to totality lay the blame on Lucas. Many movies over the years have lost and regained scenes. The big thing anymore is fro people to wait for the director's cut on the DVD and more often than not it's the director's cut, it's the studio's cut.

This goes to the heart of my complaint about the changes Lucas makes to the Star Wars films. It's not that he makes them, it's that once he makes them, the latest version becomes THE version, and all the older stuff is suddenly written off. What needs to happen is one big boxset (for both DVD and Blue ray) of ALL the versions, similar to that five version Blade Runner suitcase set you mention (I also own that).

Just think of all the money Lucas and Disney stand to make from such a megaset.

That would be nice if such a set were released.
Although I have little problem with what Lucas did with his property, it is sad that he is so stubborn about not releasing his original versions anymore.

I, fortunately, have the last bastion of the original versions on the DVD's that were released "a long time ago".

But yes, if Disney were able to get a one up on Lucas, and release a multi version set of the orginal trilogy, that would be quite the boon.

 

[cooleddie74]

Whatever the average TOS fan thinks of the 2006-08 Remastered editions of the original episodes at least CBS and Paramount continues to sell both the original '60s version of the series and the 21st century CGI-tweaked and digitally-remastered update. You have a choice and Paramount considers one version of an episode to be just as canonical as the other.

George should have taken this approach all along.

 

[Ithekro]

Not movie related, but Fantasy Flight Games (which makes the X-Wing Miniatures game) is set to release a brand new Imperial corvette soon. I want one.

Nice looking ship! Seems to have TIE styled fins.

I have to check their site to see if they ever released the Imperial Star Destroyer.

I have the Corellian Corvette (Tantive IV) miniature, and it is freaking sweet! It is the best looking miniature representation I've seen of that ship, which is my favorite ship design in all of Star Wars.

The Imperial Star Destroyer is in the next wave for Star Wars Armada. The Victory and Gladiator Star Dedtroyers are already out. An Imperial Star Destroyer would be vastly too large for the X-wing game. The Imperial Raider was designed for the game because the originally intended vessel, the Lancer-class frigate, was too large. The Raider will be released for X-wing and Armada in difference sizes.

 

[martok2112]

Not movie related, but Fantasy Flight Games (which makes the X-Wing Miniatures game) is set to release a brand new Imperial corvette soon. I want one.

Nice looking ship! Seems to have TIE styled fins.

I have to check their site to see if they ever released the Imperial Star Destroyer.

I have the Corellian Corvette (Tantive IV) miniature, and it is freaking sweet! It is the best looking miniature representation I've seen of that ship, which is my favorite ship design in all of Star Wars.

The Imperial Star Destroyer is in the next wave for Star Wars Armada. The Victory and Gladiator Star Dedtroyers are already out. An Imperial Star Destroyer would be vastly too large for the X-wing game. The Imperial Raider was designed for the game because the originally intended vessel, the Lancer-class frigate, was too large. The Raider will be released for X-wing and Armada in difference sizes.

I definitely would want the Victory class then. I liked its design, assuming that they stick to the LFL archives version.

As far as the Imperial SD, well, they'll just have to resort to a scaling system like West End Games did in its license of SW: RPG. In a physical build, the model of the ISD will probably be the same size (or maybe slightly larger) as the Corellian Corvette build... the players will just have to use their imaginations that the ISD is over ten times the size of the Corvette.

Also, I would love to see them do a miniature release of the Super Star Destroyer. (Again, scaling system and player imaginations would have to factor into the game. )

Back onto the subject of "multiple versions of SW OT", I still have the VHS releases of the Special Editions. I have the DVD's and blu-rays of those as well. I think it is interesting being able to A/B watch those versions, as well as contrasting them with the original versions of the trilogy.

 

[Venardhi]

"moral rights of the artist"

That right there basically stops all serious rants against Lucas over Star Wars. He is the artist in question. Not some guy altering someone else's work. It is his story. His work. His films.

I disagree. George Lucas in 1997 was not the same person, same artist as George Lucas in 1977 and George Lucas of 2012 was even less so.

 

[JD]

I haven't seen any version of the Original Trilogy since the 2004 DVD release, which I own, and I really don't have a problem with that version.

One complaint that a lot of people make about that version that I don't understand, is the change in Anakin's ghost. It really makes a lot more sense for it to be Hayden Chritsensen since that was what he looked like before he became Darth Vader. I guess you could try say that the original actor was what he would have looked like if he wasn't all scarred up, but I still like Hayden there better. It also makes it feel more like things have come full circle.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"moral rights of the artist"

That right there basically stops all serious rants against Lucas over Star Wars. He is the artist in question. Not some guy altering someone else's work. It is his story. His work. His films.

I disagree. George Lucas in 1997 was not the same person, same artist as George Lucas in 1977 and George Lucas of 2012 was even less so.

Nor is George Lucas the same man he was in 1988, when he said this to the US Senate:

Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tomorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with "fresher faces," or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor's lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new "original" negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...his-so-fans-are-trying-to-do-it-instead.shtml
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1988_George_Lucas_testimony_before_United_States_Senate

 

[Mr Light]

<<
One complaint that a lot of people make about that version that I don't understand, is the change in Anakin's ghost. It really makes a lot more sense for it to be Hayden Chritsensen since that was what he looked like before he became Darth Vader. I guess you could try say that the original actor was what he would have looked like if he wasn't all scarred up, but I still like Hayden there better. It also makes it feel more like things have come full circle. >>

I'm an official George Lucas apologist, but this one is terrible because Yoda and Obi-Wan are the same age as when they died yet Anakin, responsible for the deaths of thousands if not millions, is REWARDED with a youthful appearance from twenty years ago. If they replaced the other two with Prequel Era Yoda and Obi-Wan then it would be acceptable, but as is it's just internally inconsistent.

 

[DWF]

<<
One complaint that a lot of people make about that version that I don't understand, is the change in Anakin's ghost. It really makes a lot more sense for it to be Hayden Chritsensen since that was what he looked like before he became Darth Vader. I guess you could try say that the original actor was what he would have looked like if he wasn't all scarred up, but I still like Hayden there better. It also makes it feel more like things have come full circle. >>

I'm an official George Lucas apologist, but this one is terrible because Yoda and Obi-Wan are the same age as when they died yet Anakin, responsible for the deaths of thousands if not millions, is REWARDED with a youthful appearance from twenty years ago. If they replaced the other two with Prequel Era Yoda and Obi-Wan then it would be acceptable, but as is it's just internally inconsistent.

Earlier on in the movie when Luke asks Obi-Wan why he lied he was told that once Anakin became Darth Vader the good man who Anakin was died. So really the force Ghost of Anakin represented Anakin's appearance before he became Darth Vader.

 

[Ithekro]

I wouldn't put it past Lucas to have kept the old negative intact. But they did have to do a lot of work to it when they were restoring it in the 90s for THX sound and the like before the Special Editions. Lucas also mentioned something about wanting to be sure about the new medium he'd be putting these films into, that it wouldn't be a splash in the pan thing like the old Cartrivision or even Betamax and VHS. He was going for whatever would be the highest quality medium that would stay around for decades, unlike Laserdisc and HD DVD. DVD and Blu-ray now are still in question from time to time as resolution goes up the 4k now.

 

[Trekkin]

I personally think it would be hilarious if Disney decided to take the movies out of circulation, and only release 'Special Limited Editions' (with an added song by Rowen Atkinson and the word 'SFX' removed !) once every twenty years.

And all the previously rabid fanboys will look up and shout "Save us!"... and Lucas will whisper "no."

 

[BillJ]

<<
One complaint that a lot of people make about that version that I don't understand, is the change in Anakin's ghost. It really makes a lot more sense for it to be Hayden Chritsensen since that was what he looked like before he became Darth Vader. I guess you could try say that the original actor was what he would have looked like if he wasn't all scarred up, but I still like Hayden there better. It also makes it feel more like things have come full circle. >>

I think the change would've been easier to take if the prequels had been better. I feel the backlash is more about the prequels than the change itself.

 

[Trekkin]

I might be getting some facts wrong here, but I thought Lucas did stop writing the dialogue and got in some new writers for Episodes II and III?

I'm split on the prequels. There's a lot wrong with them, but there's a lot of stuff I do still like. I like how it expanded the universe and subverted what a lot of us had taken for granted as backstory, and I appreciate that there is a fair amount of imagination and ambition in them. I think my major problem is that they feel (to me) like the first or second drafts of what could have been great movies.

Has anyone read the comic adaptation of the earlier Episode IV script? The prequels are a lot like that. Star Wars before a million edits and an assload of improvisations were added in.

Though Id still take the prequel trilogy over something like Green Lantern or Insurrection. Give me astoundingly uneven over boringly 'blah' any day.

 

[Ithekro]

Star Wars, before being edited by George's Academy Award Winning wife, is a lot like the prequel films in style and writting. The editting saved that film from being a marginally successful film with neat effects, to being what it is today.

 

[DWF]

Star Wars, before being edited by George's Academy Award Winning wife, is a lot like the prequel films in style and writting. The editting saved that film from being a marginally successful film with neat effects, to being what it is today.

His ex-wife and there were three editors on the OT films, Lucas despite earlier comments remained the artist he always was and that included being a minimalist filmaker. Unlike Jackson or Cameron he didn't film alot oexcess footage.