Yes.
Did Tom Baker really stay too long?
- Thread starter The Four Doctor
- Start date
Yeah, Baker and Ian Marter were shopping around the Scratchman script. The Doctor, Sarah Jane and Harry singing "We Have No Bananas"... Thank Rassilon that it was never made!
Yeah. Ian Marter planned to adapt it for Target Books, but he died before he could.
As much as I think Baker is overrated and as much as I absolutely despised most of the Williams/Adams era, I could have gone for one more season under JNT. As much crap as he gets for his later years, I personally thought he saved the show when he came along in season 18.
The reason most companions are female is to provide "scream-queen" potential (arguably less needed these days) and eye-candy.
Also, of course, they flirted with will-they-or-won't-they "shipping" in nuWho with characters like Rose. That helped bring in the female demographic.
The only male companion that I think was that memorable was Harry, who seemed to complete the triad with Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen in the pre-K9 days.
Also, of course, they flirted with will-they-or-won't-they "shipping" in nuWho with characters like Rose. That helped bring in the female demographic.
The only male companion that I think was that memorable was Harry, who seemed to complete the triad with Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen in the pre-K9 days.
Ian had great chemistry with the Doctor and Sarah Jane. Jaime was a great companion too. He made a wonderful two-act with the Doctor and was the first companion who came across as a "buddy" with him.
Yea, Harry was great, but, I can't imagine anyone putting him above Ian and Jamie, (Let alone saying Harry was the only memorable male Companion) unless they have no experience with Jamie and Ian
Harry would be the more known male Companion simply by being the one there for the adventures of the Fourth Doctor and Sarah Jane...probably the most known era of the older series outside the United Kingdom. Ian and Jamie are mostly confined to the black and white era that gets much less attention.
I've not seen as much of the First Doctor episodes yet. I've seen all the Second Doctor episodes, so I do like Jamie, since he was there for all but one story. While Victoria was pretty (and pretty loud) Zoe is much more interesting. Even if she did still have to scream from time to time. Few companions can out think the Doctor. Romana would be the most obvious one. Jamie definately could not. He was rather dim at times, but he came off as if everything about the TARDIS was normal. When something weird happened, he's accept it for the most part. The TARDIS needs another Jamie styled Companion. Might have been why I liked Victorian era Clara. She just accepted it. Modern era Clara does about the same, but until recently, doesn't outthink the Doctor.
I've not seen as much of the First Doctor episodes yet. I've seen all the Second Doctor episodes, so I do like Jamie, since he was there for all but one story. While Victoria was pretty (and pretty loud) Zoe is much more interesting. Even if she did still have to scream from time to time. Few companions can out think the Doctor. Romana would be the most obvious one. Jamie definately could not. He was rather dim at times, but he came off as if everything about the TARDIS was normal. When something weird happened, he's accept it for the most part. The TARDIS needs another Jamie styled Companion. Might have been why I liked Victorian era Clara. She just accepted it. Modern era Clara does about the same, but until recently, doesn't outthink the Doctor.
I wish Ian Marter hadn't died so we could have seen more of Harry in Big Finish.
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Harry was an interesting character-originally, he was intended to be an Ian type to the Fourth Doctor, who originally was going to be a more Hartnellesque Doctor before they cast Tom Baker.
Despite appearing in only a few stories, he was kind of IMO a prototype for Rory, a well-intentioned, intelligent and capable physician, but a little clumsy in the way of adventuring at times. He had good chemistry with Baker and Sladen too IMO.
BTW speaking of that, it's sad that we've lost some of the Baker era companion actors to cancer. Sladen, Marter, Tamm.
Despite appearing in only a few stories, he was kind of IMO a prototype for Rory, a well-intentioned, intelligent and capable physician, but a little clumsy in the way of adventuring at times. He had good chemistry with Baker and Sladen too IMO.
BTW speaking of that, it's sad that we've lost some of the Baker era companion actors to cancer. Sladen, Marter, Tamm.
I wouldn't put Harry ahead of Ian and Jaime. Jaime was an all-time great companion and Ian is one of the most important ones in the history of Who. But Harry was a very underrated companion and it's a shame we didn't see more of him.
Marter died due to complications from diabetes. But yeah, too many people associated with Doctor Who have sadly left up before their time.
And one of the actors considered for a "Hartnell-esque" Fourth Doctor was none other than Bernard Cribbins, probably best known to DW fans as Wilfred "Wilf" Mott, Donna Noble's maternal grandfather, but he also played Constable Tom Campbell in the second Peter Cushing DW theatrical movie, "Daleks - Invasion Earth 2150 AD", a rather "Harry-esque" police officer who stumbles into the TARDIS, mistaking it for a real police box.
If you think about it, the first series with Tom still contained elements for a more "active" companion helping a less spry Doctor.
Finally, audiences sometimes believe the friendships on-screen carry over to real life and are disappointed to learn this is often NOT the case. Well, Ian and Tom WERE good friends away from the studio. Besides printed interviews, we hear Tom himself discuss this in the audio commentary he did with Liz Sladen for "Genesis of the Daleks". Tom may have mentioned it in some of the other sereies 12 DVDs in which he participated, but I haven't played them.
Sincerely,
Bill
Ian Marter was shafted by how things turned out. Two people i wish had lived long enough to produce an NA/MA/BBCNA/PDA are David Whitaker and Ian Marter.
By the way, whenever people try to tell me that diabetes is not a serious disease, I tell them about Ian Marter, dead at only 42 from diabetes.
By the way, whenever people try to tell me that diabetes is not a serious disease, I tell them about Ian Marter, dead at only 42 from diabetes.
Nah, Bernard wouldn't have been considered as an older Doctor, he's only five years older than Tom. Plus, at least as he tells the story, the reason he didn't get past the first interview is he tried to sell Barry Letts on playing it as a full on man of action that takes advantage of the fact he knows all sorts of fight moves in real life. Cribbins says Letts' told him the Doctor would never use violence like that, though I'd say it's more likely he was worried about it not being different enough from Pertwee.
Fulton Mackay tends to get help up as their main serious "Elder Doctor" (though he was only in his early 50's) consideration and probably would have gotten it if he'd been willing to consider doing more than one year.
Was this the time they looked at "Mr. Paisley" but found he'd gone senile and thought he really was Mr. Paisley?
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Mr Pastry, yes. Barry Letts found out that the actor was senile or confused and thought Letts wanted Mr Pastry to play the Doctor.
Maybe the giddy soap fan demographic. Personally, I loathe how nuWho has basically become a science-fantasy soap opera instead of a science fiction adventure show.
You need to watch some First and Second Doctor stories. While I liked Harry, he was a well-intentioned, but somewhat bumbling klutz who kept calling Sarah "old girl" and "old thing" and she rightfully told him off.
Ian, on the other hand, could hold his own in fights, stood up to the Doctor, and wasn't condescending to Barbara, Susan, and Vicki.
Jamie... well, from what I read, he had a lot of female fans. A lot. And when he and Patrick Troughton appeared in The Two Doctors, we saw that Frazier Hines hadn't aged badly at all - he could still play Jamie quite convincingly.
"wasn't condescending to Barbara, Susan, and Vicki."
Bzzzt!
on-screen, Ian treated Barbara like Dresden china. But, thanks for playing.
Bzzzt!
on-screen, Ian treated Barbara like Dresden china. But, thanks for playing.
M-kay, it's been awhile since I watched any First Doctor stories. How about some links or quotes to verify this?
Harry was an interesting character-originally, he was intended to be an Ian type to the Fourth Doctor, who originally was going to be a more Hartnellesque Doctor before they cast Tom Baker.
Despite appearing in only a few stories, he was kind of IMO a prototype for Rory, a well-intentioned, intelligent and capable physician, but a little clumsy in the way of adventuring at times. He had good chemistry with Baker and Sladen too IMO.
BTW speaking of that, it's sad that we've lost some of the Baker era companion actors to cancer. Sladen, Marter, Tamm.
Agreed that Harry was a sort of proto-Rory. Harry and Rory were both the voice of caution and reason. I kinda lost interest in the Sarah Jane stories once Harry left.
I find it surprising that we've lost more actors from the 70s than from the 60s.
As for whether Tom left too soon or too late, it's hard to say. I like Tom way more than any of his next three successors. Even at his worst, he was more watchable than Davison or Colin. (McCoy had his moments but could often swing wildly from great to absolutely terrible.) Tom Baker had an innate Doctorishness that few others possessed. Any choice he made in the role would be, by definition, the right one. I feel that JNT and co didn't understand or appreciate that. So while Tom was a better Doctor than Davison, I'm not sure how long the 4th Doctor would have worked under the more serious JNT regime. He certainly wouldn't have worked with the larger ensemble of companions that Davison usually had.
And while Seasons 17-18 weren't as good as some previous years, they're not as bad as their reputation suggests (mostly).
