I suspect throughout history esp. in war you'll find examples of people convinced they were doing good. But going back to "Paradise Lost" didn't he admit to commiting acts of treason against the UFP? So one could make an argument he clearly knew what he was doing was illegal and was under no obligation to carry out that order.
What do you think about the Red Squad?
- Thread starter Kilana2
- Start date
I suspect throughout history esp. in war you'll find examples of people convinced they were doing good. But going back to "Paradise Lost" didn't he admit to commiting acts of treason against the UFP? So one could make an argument he clearly knew what he was doing was illegal and was under no obligation to carry out that order.
If I said what I think of Red Squad, that might count as Godwin-ing the thread. So read between the lines.
Plus they killed them all.
Bah! Death is a pathetic excuse in science fiction. Especially for lack of nudity (google zombie cleavage if you DARE).
I wonder what the Klingons thought about Red Squad's fate. Every Klingon aspires to die in battle - would they have celebrated the Valiant's final mission?
The difference there is, the kids in that film were not ego-driven jackbooted thugs.
The difference there is, the kids in that film were not ego-driven jackbooted thugs.
Perhaps as a counterpart to Red Squad there is also a Green Squad. They mentor younger cadets, conduct seminars on ethical behavior, and engage in community service in San Fransisco.
Green Squad members are responsible for botany and agriculture.
I always wished they'd brought Dorian Collins back as a recurring character in S7, someone who had survivors guilt and PTSD to work through, with support from Jake, Nog and Counsellor Dax.
Plus she could have made a nice little side romance for Jake (or possibly Nog).
Plus she could have made a nice little side romance for Jake (or possibly Nog).
Nog has to wrap his mind around the fact that females don't want to be feeded chewed for tube grubs.
I hated everything about Red Squad. They didn't seem particularly "Starfleet" to me. I'm not quite sure how to explain that feeling though - just that they didn't seem to be good representatives of the Federation as a whole. They were spoiled, elitist brats. The episode about the the Valiant irked me because we saw some Vulcan cadets in the background but none of them objected to the "Captain's" illogical orders. I'd think that even young Vulcans would have a problem with that.
I don't want to say I'm glad a ship full of young adults and teenagers died because that's incredibly callous... but I am glad that it seems we didn't hear much about Red Squad after that (from what I recall). I assume that means they've either stopped implementing the policy of having a group of cadets like that or at least changed the way they decide who belongs in that group.
I don't want to say I'm glad a ship full of young adults and teenagers died because that's incredibly callous... but I am glad that it seems we didn't hear much about Red Squad after that (from what I recall). I assume that means they've either stopped implementing the policy of having a group of cadets like that or at least changed the way they decide who belongs in that group.
The problem is that I'm sure Leyton fed them the idea that they were the best and therefore invincible. After he was brought down, they were smart enough to say they were only following orders. The leaders basically did a Nick Locarno and protected the team. Kids like Dorian didn't always think... and so we had a lot of redshirts.
As long as Dorian still defends Tim Watters (RSQ captain), it's still problematic. Her ill-advised loyality to him keeps her becoming an asset for Starfleet. She needs some mentor to lead her towards more independent thinking and self-initiative. Counseling. More tactical training. Experience. And an experienced team to work with. By no means an elite cadre. After the Dominon War and the Borg Incursion (litverse) Starfleet needs desperately young and dedicated officers.
(There is a story called `Dorian's diary´, but I haven't read it).
I think what we saw throughout the TNG era was a transition.
If parasites taking over Starfleet wasn't enough to change attitudes, the Romulans reappearing with a fleet of warbirds as powerful as Starfleets finest and destabilizing the Klingon Empire might have, failing that a Borg Cube destroying a fleet and arriving in Earths orbit surely changed the mindset of the UFP.
They had just suffered the worst most humiliating setbacks in the TNG era and a year before Red Squad was formed, the Dominion must have made the news with the destruction of every ship and colony in the Gamma Quadrant.
Red Squad was a reaction to threats that couldn't be warded off with Picard, Kirk or Spock telling them how very wrong they were.
If parasites taking over Starfleet wasn't enough to change attitudes, the Romulans reappearing with a fleet of warbirds as powerful as Starfleets finest and destabilizing the Klingon Empire might have, failing that a Borg Cube destroying a fleet and arriving in Earths orbit surely changed the mindset of the UFP.
They had just suffered the worst most humiliating setbacks in the TNG era and a year before Red Squad was formed, the Dominion must have made the news with the destruction of every ship and colony in the Gamma Quadrant.
Red Squad was a reaction to threats that couldn't be warded off with Picard, Kirk or Spock telling them how very wrong they were.
I guess many of the Red Squad members came from families with a long and distinguished Starfleet career. Their families must have been proud of them being admitted into that elite cadre. Unlike their family members these kids will never get the chance to excel... There were must have been several moms crying at their memorial service, believing in their children's innocence and blaming others for what has happened.
I have my fill of Starfleet cadets and ensigns depicted as callous careerists who put personal performance over family matters, trying to please all their superiors and showing mom and dad that they belong to the top of class. Being member of an elite amounts to nothing when you're killed....
I have my fill of Starfleet cadets and ensigns depicted as callous careerists who put personal performance over family matters, trying to please all their superiors and showing mom and dad that they belong to the top of class. Being member of an elite amounts to nothing when you're killed....
Kilana, that's the vibe I got with them re: parents were in Starfleet too. I know it's hard to tell by what little we saw but that's where I got the spoiled vibe from - like it was their right to be elite cadets in Starfleet rather than appreciating their position and seeing it as a great privilege. This might have to do with me seeing that kind of behavior from other people in my life though, which is probably influencing my opinion on Red Squad.
I guess author Diane Carey would like the Red Squad concept.
Her character Eric Stiles in one of her novels seemed to me like an elite guy, too. Carey is not a bad author per se, but she obviously likes overly military ideas/concepts. Hopefully Diane Carey doesn't write about a Red Squad rivival and I hope 24th century Starfleet has learned from this failure.
They should have been disbanded after being an accessory to treason. They weren't and we were treated to Valient, which is a not very good episode.
