Ship of the Line by Diane Carey

[Idran]

Completely agree. If her work was edited at all, then obviously the editor had no problem with it, and as you mentioned, neither did the group that handles licensing. Please note that I have not read the novelization; is it possible Braga's comments were an overreaction?

No. Not at all. Literally half the scenes in the novelization are filled with the characters thinking of how ridiculous, trite, or cliche the situations they're in are, or having Archer or Tucker ripping whoever they're interacting with to shreds in their minds, while speaking show dialogue that has nothing at all to do with their novelization-added thoughts. And that's not a joke; it seriously has characters complain mentally about how cliche a situation they encounter is.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

She obviously never thought much of the Enterprise series as a whole, as the novel isn't even listed on her website.

She does allude to it in the author blurb for her War of 1812 novel, Banners. (Which I finished last night. More anon.) I quote the first sentence:

Diane Carey is the author of several Top 10 New York Times Bestsellers, including Star Trek The Next Generation, the Star Trek Voyager series, and Star Trek Enterprise Series.

Yes, that's really how the sentence reads. It makes my inner writer cower in fear.

Anyway, she only wrote the single Enterprise novel, so she could only be referring to Broken Bow in that sentence.

 

[tomswift2002]

The set design? It had to have been something visual rather than narrative, right?

"Broken Bow" felt like it could have gone 2 ways. The series could've dived into a pool full of water, while the other way it could've dived into an empty pool. Unfortunately while the novelization of BB dove into the pool full of water, and swam with "By The Book", the series broke its neck in the empty pool.

Unfortunately the pacing of "Broken Bow" worked a lot better in the novel than it did in the episode. The episode I found the producers were trying to padd out to much to fill a 2 hour time slot, and and pretty much all the other episodes I found to be no more than filler with pacings that used up 90% of the plot within the first 10 minutes. (And I'm not going to get into how "Shuttlepod One" should not have been written, since that episode just makes me cringe when I think about it.). Plus Carey seemed to make the Klingon's a lot more hostile towards the Enterprise than the producers did, so the story seemed to work better with established Trek than the episode. Plus the characters, while I wasn't expecting them to be like the later Trek series Starfleet characters, I was expecting ones like Archer and Trip to be career military types (kind of like the characters on SeaQuest DSV), not the wishy-washy green-eared characters we got from Bakula and Trineer. something that Carey was able to get through her writing. Not to mention, but the CGI was garbage on the show---even back when I saw my first episodes on VHS and I compared the ships to ships on TNG and Voyager that were done with miniatures, the miniatures seemed to scream "THIS IS REAL, YOU CAN REALLY FLY THIS SHIP",while the NX-01 just screamed "FAKE". But the CGI doesn't compare with the book, as Carey was able to use the mind for her SFX.

In a way I wish the producers of Enterprise had taken the course that Michael Jan Friedman had taken with "Starfleet Year One".

 

[Dukhat]

Unfortunately the pacing of "Broken Bow" worked a lot better in the novel than it did in the episode. The episode I found the producers were trying to padd out to much to fill a 2 hour time slot, and and pretty much all the other episodes I found to be no more than filler with pacings that used up 90% of the plot within the first 10 minutes.

How was the pacing better in the book than it was in the episode?

Plus Carey seemed to make the Klingon's a lot more hostile towards the Enterprise than the producers did, so the story seemed to work better with established Trek than the episode.

Then you've obviously never seen the rest of the show past "Broken Bow." Every time the Klingons showed up they were hostile toward the humans.

Plus the characters, while I wasn't expecting them to be like the later Trek series Starfleet characters, I was expecting ones like Archer and Trip to be career military types (kind of like the characters on SeaQuest DSV), not the wishy-washy green-eared characters we got from Bakula and Trineer. something that Carey was able to get through her writing.

And how exactly are you supposed to gather that much information about the characters from just the first episode?

Not to mention, but the CGI was garbage on the show---even back when I saw my first episodes on VHS and I compared the ships to ships on TNG and Voyager that were done with miniatures, the miniatures seemed to scream "THIS IS REAL, YOU CAN REALLY FLY THIS SHIP",while the NX-01 just screamed "FAKE". But the CGI doesn't compare with the book, as Carey was able to use the mind for her SFX.

While I'm admittedly more of a physical model guy than a CGI guy, I have to say that the CGI on ENT was probably the best Star Trek ever had. And honestly I'm not sure what comparable show one can think of whose CGI was any better. Care to enlighten me?

In a way I wish the producers of Enterprise had taken the course that Michael Jan Friedman had taken with "Starfleet Year One".

In this, I agree with you.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Completely agree. If her work was edited at all, then obviously the editor had no problem with it, and as you mentioned, neither did the group that handles licensing. Please note that I have not read the novelization; is it possible Braga's comments were an overreaction?

No. Not at all. Literally half the scenes in the novelization are filled with the characters thinking of how ridiculous, trite, or cliche the situations they're in are, or having Archer or Tucker ripping whoever they're interacting with to shreds in their minds, while speaking show dialogue that has nothing at all to do with their novelization-added thoughts. And that's not a joke; it seriously has characters complain mentally about how cliche a situation they encounter is.

Thanks for the info. For some reason now, I want to read this just to experience it...

 

[Stevil2001]

See this thread: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=208597

Starting at post #169 for excerpts.

(A thread you posted in!)

 

[tomswift2002]

How was the pacing better in the book than it was in the episode?

Had the episode been a 1-hour episode it would've worked better. N

Then you've obviously never seen the rest of the show past "Broken Bow." Every time the Klingons showed up they were hostile toward the humans.

I've watched all the DVD's and have seen every episode. Aside from the Brent Spiner arc, the Klingons came away as nothing more than pathetic weaklings and squabbling street thugs.

And how exactly are you supposed to gather that much information about the characters from just the first episode?

They're ranks. Captain. Lieutenant Commander. Hoshi Sato and Travis Mayweather I could understand being scared and green being that they were Ensigns, either just out of the Academy or only having been out for a year or two.

While I'm admittedly more of a physical model guy than a CGI guy, I have to say that the CGI on ENT was probably the best Star Trek ever had. And honestly I'm not sure what comparable show one can think of whose CGI was any better. Care to enlighten me?

. I would say that First Contact, DS9 and Voyager had better CGI than Enterprise. Sure they're are older, and DS9 and Voyager were produced in Standard-Definition, but with the models, the CGI seemed to be of a higher quality, due to having to be comparable to the physical models. On occasions Voyager's CGI was questionable (I.e. Blink of An Eye), but even as far back as the 1995 credits CGI Voyager had better CGI than Enterprise. Even TOS Remastered had CGI that made me, just on analog cable, wonder whether the SFX were things that had been filmed in the 60's, but not used and CBS was just now using it and compositing it digitally.

 

[Idran]

They're ranks. Captain. Lieutenant Commander. Hoshi Sato and Travis Mayweather I could understand being scared and green being that they were Ensigns, either just out of the Academy or only having been out for a year or two.

What would they be seasoned from, though? Before the Enterprise, Starfleet was literally stuck to the immediate neighborhood of Sol; it was basically Earth's equivalent of the Coast Guard. That was the entire point of the ship. Most all Starfleet did before that was putter around the vicinity of Earth and Alpha Centauri.

Actually, the Coast Guard isn't even a good analogy because they didn't even have to defend their holdings, because there wasn't anyone willing to challenge Vulcan dominance around their core worlds. It was legitimately more like NASA now that I think about it.

 

[tomswift2002]

They would be seasoned from the various world armies. Sort of like how NASA first used US Fighter pilots as astronauts, and even based some of its tests on the tests used to train pilots.

But here's another thing with "Broken Bow": the Klingon contact in it was not disastrous. In TNG's "First Contact" (episode, not movie), Picard explains to the Prime Minister that the reason for the Prime Directive and how Starfleet and the Federation go about determining if the time is right for first contact with a culture, is due to the disaster that occurred with first contact with the Klingons. Carey, she had to go with the script on this one, but Berman and Braga, sure it had been 11 years since FC had been produced, but there had been the Encyclopedia, the Timeline and a number of other non-fiction books published that mentioned the fact that Berman and Braga probably had sitting in their bookcase, or someone else should've caught for continuity. Really, at the end of the episode, first contact had been rough, but on the DVD it comes off as little less than "yeah, we'll make up eventually, but keep off the lawn", instead of the disastrous contact Picard was talking about (Picard seems to be talking about a First Contact that was a blood bath).

 

[Ithekro]

It has been suggested that it was first contact between the Vulcans and Klingons, rather than Earth and the Klingons. (It also could have been the Andorians and the Klingons). Not every reference about the Federation's past members dealing with other species has to involve Earth.


Broken Bow cannot be first contact with the Klingons as the Vulcans clearly know them already.

 

[Idran]

They would be seasoned from the various world armies. Sort of like how NASA first used US Fighter pilots as astronauts, and even based some of its tests on the tests used to train pilots.

What world army would have been seasoned in the period between the utter military destruction that was WW3 and the time period of Enterprise? Who would any world army have experience fighting in the time of United Earth? Honestly I don't even get why they still exist besides pure tradition, though they certainly seem to given Malcolm's heritage. It'd be like if the Republic of Vermont still had a standing army in addition to the US Army. (Not the National Guard, to stave off that argument, but specifically the Army of the Vermont Republic.)

But here's another thing with "Broken Bow": the Klingon contact in it was not disastrous. In TNG's "First Contact" (episode, not movie), Picard explains to the Prime Minister that the reason for the Prime Directive and how Starfleet and the Federation go about determining if the time is right for first contact with a culture, is due to the disaster that occurred with first contact with the Klingons.

He never said it was first contact with humans; Vulcans had already had plenty of contact with Klingons, after all, and Picard's a citizen of the Federation, not just of Earth.

 

[Christopher]

Malcolm's heritage was the Royal Navy. Which has more missions than fighting wars, including diplomatic and scientific operations. Perhaps in the peacetime ST future, its role is like that of the Coast Guard, more a rescue and security force than a combat force (much like Starfleet).

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Malcolm's heritage was the Royal Navy.

"My heritage was the Royal Candian Mounted Police."

--Sran

 

[Idran]

Malcolm's heritage was the Royal Navy. Which has more missions than fighting wars, including diplomatic and scientific operations. Perhaps in the peacetime ST future, its role is like that of the Coast Guard, more a rescue and security force than a combat force (much like Starfleet).

Ah, that's a fair point. I'd always wondered what the RN was doing still existing in the time of United Earth, but that does make sense, yeah.

 

[Dukhat]

Had the episode been a 1-hour episode it would've worked better.

No offense, but that's not really answering my question.

The book was a literal translation of the events in the episode, the only difference being Carey's addition of her silly thought balloons for all the characters. So how does making the episode one hour long change any of that? Or make any difference whatsoever in the pacing of the two?

I've watched all the DVD's and have seen every episode. Aside from the Brent Spiner arc, the Klingons came away as nothing more than pathetic weaklings and squabbling street thugs.

So, in other words, exactly the same as the portrayal of Klingons in TOS?

They're ranks. Captain. Lieutenant Commander. Hoshi Sato and Travis Mayweather I could understand being scared and green being that they were Ensigns, either just out of the Academy or only having been out for a year or two.

So what exactly is the issue here?

I would say that First Contact, DS9 and Voyager had better CGI than Enterprise. Sure they're are older, and DS9 and Voyager were produced in Standard-Definition, but with the models, the CGI seemed to be of a higher quality, due to having to be comparable to the physical models. On occasions Voyager's CGI was questionable (I.e. Blink of An Eye), but even as far back as the 1995 credits CGI Voyager had better CGI than Enterprise. Even TOS Remastered had CGI that made me, just on analog cable, wonder whether the SFX were things that had been filmed in the 60's, but not used and CBS was just now using it and compositing it digitally.

First of all, comparing a feature film's CGI (FC) to a television show's CGI is an unfair comparison. Second, VOY's CGI and ENT's CGI were done by the same company, and pretty much look exactly the same to me. Finally, DS9's CGI in the later seasons was pure crap, on par with Babylon 5's CGI (which admittedly at the time was probably the best they could do.)

As for your views about the remastered TOS CGI? Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but to say that it smacked of original '60's film is, in my opinion, absurd.

 

[Ithekro]

Would the only difference between the CGI in Voyager and Enterprise be the medium they were presented. I seem to recall UPN whiching to digital around the last season of Voyager. Would that also mark a difference in picture quality, to where the CGI effects would look different?

 

[tomswift2002]

Would the only difference between the CGI in Voyager and Enterprise be the medium they were presented. I seem to recall UPN whiching to digital around the last season of Voyager. Would that also mark a difference in picture quality, to where the CGI effects would look different?

UPN's switching would have very little to do with it, as Voyager was being finished to Digital D2 videotape right from 1995 (just like DS9), and then TV stations were either making their copies from digital satellite transmissions of the D2 tapes, or receiving copies on analog 3/4-inch Umatic that were dubbed from the digital.

And Dukhat, making the episode 1 hour long would taken out a lot of the bloated scenes that worked fine on paper, but not on screen. Scenes like the butterfly scene, or the mother teaching her child how to breath, or even Archer's side trip to get Hoshi. 50% of what was aired needed to have been tossed out.

And the portrayal of the Klingons in TOS showed an enemy that was cunning and really presented a threat. Aside from the Brent Spiner-Augment arc, the Klingons in Enterprise were not worthy to be called Klingons. I just watched "Errand Of Mercy" last night and those Klingons really had you wondering if Kirk could get out of the predicament, and really gave the impression that they were enemies of the Federation and Earth, and not just some neighbour that was having a disagreement with you because your dog broke through the fence.

 

[Leto_II]

pure crap, on par with Babylon 5's CGI

 

[Idran]

I've just recently been watching B5 for the first time. It's a good show so far, I've been enjoying it, but yeah there's nothing on any Trek series anywhere near the awful visual effect that is a Vorlon ship.

 

[Christopher]

but yeah there's nothing on any Trek series anywhere near the awful visual effect that is a Vorlon ship.

It was pretty impressive at the time, IIRC. Didn't it actually have moving patterns on its hull? That was something that had never been done before, that was only possible with CGI. At the time, Foundation Imaging's effects for B5 were pretty breathtaking compared to what we'd seen before on television. As I recall, the only things I felt they did poorly were fluid/gas effects like thruster exhaust. Maybe the resolution makes the effects look bad on a modern HDTV, but in the standard-definition video of the '90s, they were really impressive and groundbreaking.