Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death better?

[enterprisecvn65]

So I'm inspired to write this because my wife was miffed at how her favorite show killed off a main popular character in a stupid and pointless way. I watched the scene and had to agree especially because there were many ways to write the scene that could have made his death more heroic and meaningful.

So it led me to think about the general consensus, myself included, that Kirk's death was lame and had no real drama.

So I thought how could Kirk's death have been done better without doing a whole new scene.

Well I thought of this. Kirk and Soran are fighting while Picard is going for the launcher. While they're fighting Kirk and Soran takes a decent fall that knock them ass over tea cups.

Soran comes to first and starts like looking for his gun. Kirk comes to and is pretty woozy and trying to gather his marbles.

So Soran finds his gun and finds a firing position which is on the edge of a cliff and he lines up for his shot close to Kirk but is so focused on stopping Picard he doesn't pay any attention to Kirk.

Kirk sees Soran getting into firing position and he realizes he's on the edge of a cliff but Kirk realizes there's not enough room for him to stop his momentum if he charges Soran but he pauses a second, maybe they show a clip like Spock telling him the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one and Kirk rises heroically. So there's a sequence that quick cuts between Soran getting ready to fire, Picard working the controls and Kirk running. Just before he reaches Soran maybe Kirk yells up to Picard something like "Do it.....captain of the Enterprise " this causes Soran to turn around and see Kirk just as he hits Soran and wraps his arms around him in a big bear hug and they both go flying off the cliff together. Soran died instantly and Kirk lives long enough to say his last words to Picard.

To me something like this has far more drama and is more meaningful because Kirk, like Spock, makes the choice to give his life to save others. Not just he takes another risk going in the bridge and it turns out his luck runs out.

I dunno just seems like that'd be a more fitting send off

Anyone else have any ideas?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

The scene could've stayed the way it was, actually, had Kirk's "death" been shown and shown to be spectacular in the 23rd Century. It's always seemed to me that Kirk was in far too chatty a mood to be on his death bed, tangled in a mangled bridge. It was like he wasn't even taking direction ... and I suspect nothing was going to change that part of it. And had the ENTERPRISE-B sacrifice seemed like there was no way GENERATIONS could've topped it, then it might've even made what we got at the end of the movie seem a little more somber, in a way ...

 

[Saxman1]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

I thought Kirk saved an entire star system once again, a heroic ending for a man the rest of the cosmos already considered dead. His "It was fun, oh my!" when he's seeing the next life beckoning extremely moving. IMHO Shatner and Stewart compliment each other beautifully. I'm one of the few who wouldn't change a thing. Loved the film knowing I'm in the vast minority.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

Kirk Fu must be involved

 

[Mage]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

Never really had any issues with his death. Kirk did what he did, because it was the right thing to do. He didn't want something heroic. He just wanted to make a difference. And he did.

Never understood this need to have your favorite character killed with huge spotlights on him/her and a choir of angels in the background to sing him/her into heaven. Doesn't happen with real heroes either. They die doing what they need to do. Period.

 

[martok2112]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

I really don't think the scene could've been done any better. ... especially considering that the initial way his death scene was conceived and presented to test audiences made his death seem incredibly cheap.
The way it played out in the final film was just fine.

But then, I've never had a problem with a legendary character suffering an ignominious death. .. after all, in the end it is written nowhere that one particular human or being deserves any more heroic a death than any other.

 

[Kor]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

As far as I'm concerned, the Enterprise-A flew into the sun and exploded at the end of STVI:TUC, with all hands lost. (watch the scene very carefully, and you'll see what I mean)

Or to put it another way, the original crew lives on forever in our imagination, and TPTB should have just left the ultimate fates of individual characters a mystery.

While a solar system with millions of inhabitants is important, the whole thing just feels empty, since none of those people will ever know about Kirk's sacrifice.

Assuming the rest of the movie retains the same premise, I think Kirk should have been swallowed back up by the Nexus somehow. That would leave an air of enigma, since nobody would be able to contact him any more and he would effectively be lost in the line of duty. But he would get to ride horses and chop wood in a mysterious realm for all eternity, and marry Antonia (whoever that is ).

Kor

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

I like the original death scene, although some have a problem with kirk being shot in the back, it still beats kirk dying by falling to his death.

The best ending would be to have kirk survive the movie, and we just never see him again.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

Have him not die.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

I wouldn't have wanted Kirk in GENERATIONS, at all, to be honest. It should've been TNG's show! During the transition from little to big screen, Rick Berman stumbled - and his insistance that Shatner star is a good case in point. Fortunately, director Jonathan "Two Takes" Frakes recovered the ball, in the next movie. It's not that I hate Shatner, or anything, it's just that this was TNG's chance for a breakout movie and all of the ingredients were already there, without dipping into the TOS well. There's been too much of that anyway, during the series. Let the cream rise, you know...? But, whatever ... Rick pushed for a passing of the baton, instead of letting TNG do its thing. Had it been required that Kirk die in any movie, at all ... it had to be epic. Larger than Life! Any novice could've told Rick that, and that the Nexus wasn't going to work, but ... there was all of that popcorn at stake.

 

[FormerLurker]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

Have him not die.

^This.

Probably the biggest problem I have with the lameness of Kirk's death is that what we got in theaters is actually the more actiony version they reshot because the first version was so lame and poorly received by test audiences. They should never have killed him in the first place, but to have audiences call their first attempt lame, so they redo it, and we get "Oh my." Bleah.

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

...The way it played out in the final film was just fine.

But then, I've never had a problem with a legendary character suffering an ignominious death. .. after all, in the end it is written nowhere that one particular human or being deserves any more heroic a death than any other.

Kirk said in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, "I've always known I'll die alone."

That should have been remembered and honored. If they had done that, I would have at least been only half disappointed. His first first death in the movie from the Nexus Balrog whip would have sufficiently qualified, though Scotty and Chekov, strictly speaking, were also aboard.

Have him not die.

^This.

Probably the biggest problem I have with the lameness of Kirk's death is that what we got in theaters is actually the more actiony version they reshot because the first version was so lame and poorly received by test audiences. They should never have killed him in the first place, but to have audiences call their first attempt lame, so they redo it, and we get "Oh my." Bleah.

In my head canon, Kirk said "Oh, my" because... Well, I cover it in an older post in a different thread:

How about the old Kirk as a villain. From Shatner's book The Return. Kirk is reanimated by the borg and Romulans but programmed to bring down the Federation. Great way to bring Shatner back in and end his character properly maybe by ending him at the end in a fitting battle to finally save the federation he was sent out to destroy or bring down.

All they have to do to bring back Kirk Prime is this:

Basically some Trek character clones Kirk in body only - not mind, not living. Maybe they were warned with knowledge of the future, or from the Nexus. They do a simultaneous beam-out and switch of dying Kirk under the fallen bridge with the clone Kirk. Dying Kirk is saved with advanced medical help. Clone Kirk is still there for Picard to bury under a pile of stones. That's why dying Kirk said, "Oh my." He became aware of the beam-out attempt, but Picard was unaware. Kirk lives on in Picard's time, but we know not where. Or maybe he was recalled to the Nexus since he was there once and could then choose to exit into any time he wished. Maybe he joined Spock for a while on Romulus. Maybe he jumps in and out of the Nexus every week for a new adventure in a different time period - like Time Tunnel for Star Trek. Who knows.

 

[martok2112]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

...The way it played out in the final film was just fine.

But then, I've never had a problem with a legendary character suffering an ignominious death. .. after all, in the end it is written nowhere that one particular human or being deserves any more heroic a death than any other.

Kirk said in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, "I've always known I'll die alone."

That should have been remembered and honored. If they had done that, I would have at least been only half disappointed. His first first death in the movie from the Nexus Balrog whip would have sufficiently qualified, though Scotty and Chekov, strictly speaking, were also aboard.

[]

For someone watching Generations as their very first exposure to Trek, such words would've likely been meaningless...having no real investment in Kirk....let alone any other character save for their respective screentimes in those two hours.

But, such instances are rare.

For the majority of fanatics that know Star Trek better than they know their own families, Kirk's words in Trek V would've come to the forefront of their minds without any part of Generations hearkening back to Trek V.

The writers were given an assignment: Kill off James T. Kirk. If they also saw Trek V, then it would seem that they banked on fans'/admirers' memories of Kirk's self-fulfilling prophecy.

As an admirer of Trek, my memory served me just fine without the need for an in-story revisit to those words.

 

[Timo]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

So Kirk was wrong about how he would die. Big deal.

It's actually fun to see a hero die in "martyrdom" of sorts, forgotten and unappreciated. That's how all the greatest heroes traditionally go. Have a religion founded when it's already too late, by all means, but don't let heroism get in the hero's head while he's still alive.

I thought they way they shoehorned Kirk into this one was rather good, considering. It's not as if Kirk actually saves anybody for real in his Second Coming. He's just having fun with empty Acts of Heroism such as fighting with the bad guy, while Picard saves civilizations. It's the very reason he left Nexus in the first place: because he wanted to feel the breeze again, not because he really wanted to make a difference or other such nonsense.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Disco]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

I always took Kirk's prophecy in Star Trek V to mean he wouldn't be with McCoy or Spock and I would have hated if he did die totally alone.

I don't like his death but neither do I dislike it. His body shouldn't have been left on the planet but shot into space.

 

[martok2112]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

I always took Kirk's prophecy in Star Trek V to mean he wouldn't be with McCoy or Spock and I would have hated if he did die totally alone.

I

That was my impression as well since his lead up to that was: "I knew I wouldn't die because the two of you were with me. "

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

There's a lot more acceptance of Kirk's death here, and how he died, than "popular wisdom" indicates in more general statements about the movie. I'm a little surprised; it seems like revisionism, or maybe it comes from newer fans than those who grew up with TOS (mostly).

So Kirk was wrong about how he would die. Big deal.

No, Kirk is a fictional character who is given lines by the writers. He did't fail to make a prediction. The writers failed to follow through, like tech that one week saves the ship but is never seen again.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

I am fine with how it played; like others in the minority here, I am quite happy with it.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

I am fine with how it played; like others in the minority here, I am quite happy with it.

Well I'm just of the opinion of when you kill off the central and arguably most popular main character it is best if the character basically decides his/her own fate. M

That's what made Spock's death so powerful in TWOK, he knew he wasn't coming out of the radiation chamber, despite his implication to McCoy that because he wasn't human he might survive.

I can't say Kirk's final action wasn't heroic but I'm sure Kirk probably thought "I've been in tighter spots before, I'll get the control and figure out how to climb back up the bridge"....whoops chains and supports broke, guess not.

Maybe he would have done it anyway if he knew it was going to give way, but I just didn't like that he only kind of decided his fate and some weak chains and other metal did the rest for him.

I cannot believe that originally he was just going to get shot in the back and it took a test audience reaction to change it.

Berman was THAT stupid he couldn't realize that was about the worst death possible and didn't nix it right away.

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Keeping the same basic scene, how could you make Kirk's death bett

...when you kill off the central and arguably most popular main character it is best if the character basically decides his/her own fate.

I like that thought. (But it's still the writers doing the deciding, and they decided to piss on the franchise to leave their mark - kind of like Bellatrix Lestrange proudly yelling, "I Killed Sirius Black! I Killed Sirius Black!").