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Violent Protests in Baltimore

Is the violence by Baltimore Protestors Justified?


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Yeah they threw some rocks and bricks yesterday but by last night it was nothing more than looting. They're not attacking police anymore and they won't. I lose respect and sympathy for your cause when all you do is burn random buildings and attack anyone that has different color skin than you.
 
I lose respect and sympathy for your cause when all you do is burn random buildings and attack anyone that has different color skin than you.

How convenient.

Try an experiment: ask yourself honestly under what conditions you'd behave this way.

"I'd never do that!" is a cop-out. So is "First, let's assume we're talking about some evil other-universe version of myself."

Just try, presumably knowing yourself a bit, to imagine under what circumstances, in response to what kind of provocation, you-as-you-believe-yourself-to-be would do these kinds of things.

Then allow for one tenth of a second that at least some of the participants in riots like this are people like you.
 
When I got home from work last night, I turned on the television only to see that the Orioles game had been postponed due to safety concerns. On Facebook, I saw a Google Map that showed fires happening literally two blocks away from the Baltimore office I used to work in, and three blocks away from the house I used to live at. I saw that the National Guard had been activated and that the State Police had requested additional officers from neighboring states. I slumped back in my recliner and I just started sobbing for a solid five minutes.

A good friend of mine who lives near Patterson Park put it best:

"What you're seeing on the news is questionably reported, sensationalistic, biased coverage of a hot-button issue that the media knows its audience has a knee-jerk response to. Most of it is being reported by people who don't live here and don't understand the situation. And all of it is happening because a police suspect who was fine when they put him into a police van had a broken spine and a smashed voicebox when he got out, and the police and the city have responded to the public's outrage by blaming the public for being upset."

I lived in Baltimore for a year. It's a wonderful city and I miss it dearly. Yes, it has problems, but every community in the country has problems. But there are serious issues within the Baltimore City Police Department -- you don't pay out nearly $6 million in settlements and court judgments for misconduct and improper use of force over four years without there being a systemic issue -- and while we might find these protests less than savory, the way the media are presenting them, basically as "half-human, half-animal-like mythical beasts rampaging through downtown Baltimore attacking hapless people with guns," is at best grossly irresponsible and at worst downright malicious behavior in service of a narrative, rather than actually taking the time to ask, "Why? Why is this happening?"
 
I lose respect and sympathy for your cause when all you do is burn random buildings and attack anyone that has different color skin than you.

How convenient.

Try an experiment: ask yourself honestly under what conditions you'd behave this way.

"I'd never do that!" is a cop-out. So is "First, let's assume we're talking about some evil other-universe version of myself."

Just try, presumably knowing yourself a bit, to imagine under what circumstances, in response to what kind of provocation, you-as-you-believe-yourself-to-be would do these kinds of things.

Then allow for one tenth of a second that at least some of the participants in riots like this are people like you.

Fantastic thought experiment.

When I got home from work last night, I turned on the television only to see that the Orioles game had been postponed due to safety concerns. On Facebook, I saw a Google Map that showed fires happening literally two blocks away from the Baltimore office I used to work in, and three blocks away from the house I used to live at. I saw that the National Guard had been activated and that the State Police had requested additional officers from neighboring states. I slumped back in my recliner and I just started sobbing for a solid five minutes.

A good friend of mine who lives near Patterson Park put it best:

"What you're seeing on the news is questionably reported, sensationalistic, biased coverage of a hot-button issue that the media knows its audience has a knee-jerk response to. Most of it is being reported by people who don't live here and don't understand the situation. And all of it is happening because a police suspect who was fine when they put him into a police van had a broken spine and a smashed voicebox when he got out, and the police and the city have responded to the public's outrage by blaming the public for being upset."

I lived in Baltimore for a year. It's a wonderful city and I miss it dearly. Yes, it has problems, but every community in the country has problems. But there are serious issues within the Baltimore City Police Department -- you don't pay out nearly $6 million in settlements and court judgments for misconduct and improper use of force over four years without there being a systemic issue -- and while we might find these protests less than savory, the way the media are presenting them, basically as "half-human, half-animal-like mythical beasts rampaging through downtown Baltimore attacking hapless people with guns," is at best grossly irresponsible and at worst downright malicious behavior in service of a narrative, rather than actually taking the time to ask, "Why? Why is this happening?"

Absolutely. The media's obsession with splashy graphics, click bait titles and vapid "analysis" is disgraceful, and in these type of events can even be considered dangerous.
 
There is no question that the police in Baltimore did something wrong, and there should be repercussions, but these protesters defeat their own purpose by using violence. Take a page out of Gandhi's book.

As Ta-Nehisi Coates correctly puts it, there's a certain point at which "please make sure you protest non-violently so that we can completely ignore you and continue murdering you with impunity" rings hollow.

Ta-Nehisi Coates said:
Now, tonight, I turn on the news and I see politicians calling for young people in Baltimore to remain peaceful and "nonviolent." These well-intended pleas strike me as the right answer to the wrong question. To understand the question, it's worth remembering what, specifically, happened to Freddie Gray. An officer made eye contact with Gray. Gray, for unknown reasons, ran. The officer and his colleagues then detained Gray. They found him in possession of a switchblade. They arrested him while he yelled in pain. And then, within an hour, his spine was mostly severed. A week later, he was dead. What specifically was the crime here? What particular threat did Freddie Gray pose? Why is mere eye contact and then running worthy of detention at the hands of the state? Why is Freddie Gray dead?

The people now calling for nonviolence are not prepared to answer these questions. Many of them are charged with enforcing the very policies that led to Gray's death, and yet they can offer no rational justification for Gray's death and so they appeal for calm. But there was no official appeal for calm when Gray was being arrested. There was no appeal for calm when Jerriel Lyles was assaulted. (“The blow was so heavy. My eyes swelled up. Blood was dripping down my nose and out my eye.”) There was no claim for nonviolence on behalf of Venus Green. (“Bitch, you ain’t no better than any of the other old black bitches I have locked up.”) There was no plea for peace on behalf of Starr Brown. (“They slammed me down on my face,” Brown added, her voice cracking. “The skin was gone on my face.")

When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con. And none of this can mean that rioting or violence is "correct" or "wise," any more than a forest fire can be "correct" or "wise." Wisdom isn't the point tonight. Disrespect is. In this case, disrespect for the hollow law and failed order that so regularly disrespects the rioters themselves.

Read the whole thing.
 
Of course I'm against police brutality and abuse. I just don't see how burning down your neighborhood is going to fix that.

Then I suppose you should devote some energy to bringing attention to the various non-violent protests that the media has largely ignored in order to play up lurid whitebread fears of the rioting Negro. Shouldn't you? And to remembering what the real, root disgrace in all of this is. All sorts of things you could be doing instead of running your mouth about rioting if you're genuinely against police brutality and abuse.
 
I lose respect and sympathy for your cause when all you do is burn random buildings and attack anyone that has different color skin than you.

It's good to hear you are against police abuse and brutality! :techman:
Of course I'm against police brutality and abuse. I just don't see how burning down your neighborhood is going to fix that.

It won't. But it sure got your attention, didn't it?
 
Riots like that do no good for either side of the issue. Scum like the KKK use such events as "evidence" against the black community, justifying their racist attitude.
 
Riots like that do no good for either side of the issue. Scum like the KKK use such events as "evidence" against the black community, justifying their racist attitude.

:rolleyes:


Yes, please - let's make sure that all African Americans behave so that the KKK will like them.
 
Riots like that do no good for either side of the issue. Scum like the KKK use such events as "evidence" against the black community, justifying their racist attitude.

Sorry, no. "Scum like the KKK" make up whatever they want to use and/or make up as "evidence against the black community." Not-getting-out-of-line as a strategy for avoiding racial abuse is - actually, it's exactly what the KKK would like to accomplish with their tactics, isn't it?

Same for "this kind of thing makes it easier for the police to justify their brutality." Dude, the police are going to do what the police do, period. The KKK or other self-styled vigilantes will do what they're going to do, period. "Let's behave so as not to provoke them" is not an answer.
 
The idea that citizens need to be meek and sheeplike so as not to incur the wrath of other citizens who are sworn to protect them is troubling to say the least.
 
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The idea that citizens need to meek and sheeplike so as not to incur the wrath of other citizens who are sworn to protect them is troubling to say the least.

We've reached a point where a terrifyingly large subsection of the population believes that what is effectively summary execution is an appropriate punishment for running from a police officer.

We have a similar situation brewing here in Madison, Wisconsin, where a black youth who was high on psilocybin mushrooms was running around in traffic and had battered at least one person; he ran into a house, a police officer entered, the young man punched him in the head and he was shot and killed. The Young, Gifted and Black Coalition has been marching almost daily to protest what they call the murder of this young man, and while the district attorney has not decided whether to press charges against the officer, it is widely believed that he will not do so. And so there's an almost palpable level of tension that's simmering right now -- and while the DA has notified the police department as well as the downtown business association that we'll get a few days' advance notice of the decision, the whole thing still has everyone on edge.

I know the Supreme Court said in Shelby County that racism was over just because five old guys said so, and ever since then -- when Southern states responded almost immediately by implementing draconian voting laws proven to have a disproportionate effect on minority populations -- I've known that this was going to come to a head soon. Because racism is not over; in fact, it's just become more systemic without anyone really realizing it. Here in Madison, the city likes to pat itself on the back for being a liberal progressive paradise or whatever, but something like 80 percent of the homeless population is black, and the average age of a homeless person in this city is nine years old. We also incarcerate black men at an *insane* rate for minor drug offenses, whereas weed is basically de facto legal if you're a well-to-do white college student or young professional. And again, that's just in liberal hippie Madison -- imagine what it's like to be black in Baltimore City, where the government has historically oppressed your population for decades.

The most important thing that needs to happen right now is just everyone putting down or shutting their respective filter on this subject and just listening for a while. I have to believe if we really listened, we would hear the pain that so many feel, and as a result we would feel empathetic and would be encouraged to act, to do something, anything to change the current climate of some being oppressed by many.
 
We have a similar situation brewing here in Madison, Wisconsin, where a black youth who was high on psilocybin mushrooms was running around in traffic and had battered at least one person; he ran into a house, a police officer entered, the young man punched him in the head and he was shot and killed. The Young, Gifted and Black Coalition has been marching almost daily to protest what they call the murder of this young man, and while the district attorney has not decided whether to press charges against the officer

Can't see any reason for him to be charged. He was obviously a danger to society and then he attacked a police officer. If I'm carrying a gun and some guy high on shoots starts punching me I'm probably gonna shoot him.

The biggest thing America could do to end police brutality is end the war on poverty and the war on drugs.
 
The biggest thing America could do to end police brutality is end the war on poverty and the war on drugs.

I'm sure we'd be fascinated to hear what's subsumed in the phrase "war on poverty" and how ending it would diminish police brutality.

The war on drugs, OTOH, is being used to effectively disenfranchise large numbers of people. It's not solving the drug problem, but it's working pretty well to maintain the racist power structure.
 
We have a similar situation brewing here in Madison, Wisconsin, where a black youth who was high on psilocybin mushrooms was running around in traffic and had battered at least one person; he ran into a house, a police officer entered, the young man punched him in the head and he was shot and killed. The Young, Gifted and Black Coalition has been marching almost daily to protest what they call the murder of this young man, and while the district attorney has not decided whether to press charges against the officer

Can't see any reason for him to be charged. He was obviously a danger to society and then he attacked a police officer. If I'm carrying a gun and some guy high on shoots starts punching me I'm probably gonna shoot him.

I wonder why the officer chose his gun instead of his taser or baton?
 
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