Mad Men countdown
- Thread starter Kor
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Re: Betty. I had a roommate in law school who had been a psych major before going to law school. He said he decided to switch fields when he realized that 99 % of his psych classmates enrolled in an effort to figure out why they were so fucked up.
Re: Roger. One of those Classic Sterling episodes. Every word out of his mouth was pure gold.
Re: Peggy. The 'lesbian temptation' thing was a little cliched. "LA Law" did it 25 years ago.
Re: Harry. Man, at this point he makes Pete look like a standup guy.
Re: Megan. Why the anger and resentment? Yeah, Don was a slug in the past but during the "Waterloo" episode the decision to divorce seemed less about that and more about different life goals, etc. it seems like we missed something.
Re: Don. Another reference to the balcony.
Re: Roger. One of those Classic Sterling episodes. Every word out of his mouth was pure gold.
Re: Peggy. The 'lesbian temptation' thing was a little cliched. "LA Law" did it 25 years ago.
Re: Harry. Man, at this point he makes Pete look like a standup guy.
Re: Megan. Why the anger and resentment? Yeah, Don was a slug in the past but during the "Waterloo" episode the decision to divorce seemed less about that and more about different life goals, etc. it seems like we missed something.
Re: Don. Another reference to the balcony.
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I think it's interesting that Diana is filling in the roles of Don's previous lovers -- Rachel, Megan, Sylvia ... in this episode she appears in Don's home (which he shared with Megan) and also the elevator (where Don first seduced Sylvia), but Diana doesn't come anywhere near Betty or her "space" -- probably because she's the mother of Don's kids, and therefore off limits. Also interesting that Betty doesn't resemble the rest of them.
And that last shot, man. Brutal.
And that last shot, man. Brutal.
At the time I think Betty was the perfect little trophy wife--the pretty and dutiful blonde at home for a man making his mark and getting ahead in the world. But she didn't really reach Don at his core. And every woman since has been something of an attempt to find something or fill a void Betty couldn't fill.
The deserted apartment struck me as symbolic of letting go of the past and having a chance to start with a clean slate. But this is partially an illusion (for all of us) because we always carry the memories of our past with us. Megan's mom might actually have done Don a favour by cleaning him out of all the furniture and stuff.
I don't think Megan was really that pissed at Don, but she was in a bad mood over her mother and Don caught some of the flack. Roger was right that Megan isn't wholly innocent--she made her own choices and she really has to accept some responsibility for her life. Don alone didn't "ruin her life."
Part of Don's problem--and one shared by many if not most people--is that he wants, but he doesn't really understand (or recognize) what it is he wants and how to get it. Don and all the characters neatly represent what many of us go through in trying to find something without understanding what it is we're really looking for.
The deserted apartment struck me as symbolic of letting go of the past and having a chance to start with a clean slate. But this is partially an illusion (for all of us) because we always carry the memories of our past with us. Megan's mom might actually have done Don a favour by cleaning him out of all the furniture and stuff.
I don't think Megan was really that pissed at Don, but she was in a bad mood over her mother and Don caught some of the flack. Roger was right that Megan isn't wholly innocent--she made her own choices and she really has to accept some responsibility for her life. Don alone didn't "ruin her life."
Part of Don's problem--and one shared by many if not most people--is that he wants, but he doesn't really understand (or recognize) what it is he wants and how to get it. Don and all the characters neatly represent what many of us go through in trying to find something without understanding what it is we're really looking for.
...or it could just be a blatant statement about what Don has lost because of his unchanging ways.
Not just his family (as evidenced by his scene with Betty, Henry and the kids at the top of the episode) or his wives (Betty and Megan) or his things - the literal proof of his own success. For two episodes in a row now we've seen Don confronted with other people's happiness - first the news that Rachel was happy and content (without him) in the end, and now Betty and the kids are just fine.
When Bobby suggests Don make a milkshake for Henry, Don's reaction is to "let him have a sip of yours" -- vis a vis "Don made these," (i.e. the family) that Henry is now enjoying. Henry's response? "I'll make my own." i.e. Don's actions may have set into motion Henry's entrance into their lives, but the family unit that Don observes as an outsider as he leaves is very much a unit built by Henry.
The point is -- that last shot was obviousy supposed to be emblematic of everything Don has lost. It's certainly possible it's also doubly meaning as a new beginning for him, but it's undeniable that that the literal barrenness of the apartment (one which, a week ago, he couldn't bear to even look at with the lights on because it reminded him of Megan) and now he's all alone again.
Ol' Scratch
Lieutenant Junior Grade
These Madison men really dive head-first into new fashion trends each decade.
They are in a business where appearance really matters. Customers need (and want) to see that who they're dealing with is in step with the times. Today the fashions of times past can look odd, but during the time everyone accepted it as the way things were. Today's fashions will look just as odd decades down the road.
Ol' Scratch
Lieutenant Junior Grade
My point was that it's too fast, and that its a fault of the writers/production team more than anything else. It's as if when the day hit January 1st, 1970 (despite it still being the 60s), they instantly went from 0 to 60 as far as the 'staches and shaggy hair goes. Despite that fashion not actually being fashionable that soon or that quickly. Let alone by professionals.
By your logic, they should all have been dressing like tie-dyed hippies for the last couple of seasons.
I think you're describing the "old" Don. This "new" Don seems to know exactly what he wants. Now it is up in the air as to whether or not he'll get it, but I think we are being shown that the character is no longer out there floundering trying to figure out who he is and what he wants.
One of the things I'm enjoying so much about this season so far, is just how much Don has evolved. He's not perfect, and a big test will be seeing him with the kids away from Betty, but I think the character is light years beyond where he was in prior seasons.
Although I agree with others who interpreted the look on Don's face when he looked back at Betty and Henry and the kids, as a longing realization of what he once had, but speaking as a man who has kids and has gone through a divorce, that feeling is many times tempered by the realization that that the divorce, though painful, is a necessary correction of a past mistake (marrying Betty).
I don't think Don was thinking that he wished he was Henry, but rather something like, "that part of my life is gone forever" -- not really true because he, like anyone in that position, is free to create new family moments with his children. Hope I'm making sense here.
Well, certain characters tend to dress similarly to how they always have. For example, Don, Roger, Kenny, and Pete are still wearing fairly conservative suits. The lapels and ties are just wider than they were in 1960. And Don now has Dean Martin sideburns, and Roger has a mustache. And Kenny's hair is a little shaggier, and Pete is losing his hair. These are the people that clients will deal with the most in their professional meetings. These are businessmen. Bigwigs running chemical and automobile companies would probably be turned off if the senior partners of their ad agency all looked like hippies.
Stan has progressively gotten more flamboyant over the last few seasons. Ted seems to have jumped off the deep end, though maybe at this point he's more involved in the creative process, like Stan, and less with dealing with clients. At the end of Season 7A, it sounded like he wanted to just "do his work" and not have to deal with business. And Don was going to make that happen for him since McCann wanted him on board. I think that with purely creative personnel, there is a little more leeway for eccentricities in dress and manners, since the perception is that they are creative geniuses but they aren't actually the ones managing the business.
Kor
How are any of these wardrobe and makeup changes supposed to be reflective of mainstream society? Seemed to me Peggy, Betty, Henry, the kids, Megan, her sister, Marie, Arnold and Sylvia Rosen, Harry, and all the other secretaries (as well as Joan, Diana, Ken, and Rachel's sister last week) were still more or less maintaining the same looks from 1969 without any of these more pronounced changes.
That might've been true in some segments of society but generally their clients tended to be in more conservative industries: tobacco, Dept stores, Dow chemical, GM, etc.
As such, I don't think their clients would've been looking for ad men who appeared too "with it."
In fact, some of the clients (Dow, for example) were targets of anti-war movement and/or hippies. If anything, looking too 'hip' would have probably lost them some business.
My guide is looking at high school yearbooks from 1968 to 1973. Faculty and students included. Yes, fashion did change as fast as what's shown on Mad Men.
The '68 to '70 yearbooks -- where the pictures were really taken from 1967 to 1969 -- had students and staff in relatively '60s-looking styles, including more conservative styles for staff. And, no, most of the students don't look like hippies but the style has moved away from the standard mid-century look. There was a lot of the mod look, which is more the '60s look to me than hippies.
The '71 yearbooks -- where the pictures were taken in 1970 -- look half '60s, half '70s.
The '72 yearbooks are full-on '70s. For everyone. From there, it becomes more and more exaggerated until about 1977 or 1978. Then the '70s look starts watering down, the '80s look starts showing up in 1979, it becomes half-and-half by 1981, and the '80s completely take over by 1983.
The styles that we're seeing on Mad Men Season 7B look just about right.
The '68 to '70 yearbooks -- where the pictures were really taken from 1967 to 1969 -- had students and staff in relatively '60s-looking styles, including more conservative styles for staff. And, no, most of the students don't look like hippies but the style has moved away from the standard mid-century look. There was a lot of the mod look, which is more the '60s look to me than hippies.
The '71 yearbooks -- where the pictures were taken in 1970 -- look half '60s, half '70s.
The '72 yearbooks are full-on '70s. For everyone. From there, it becomes more and more exaggerated until about 1977 or 1978. Then the '70s look starts watering down, the '80s look starts showing up in 1979, it becomes half-and-half by 1981, and the '80s completely take over by 1983.
The styles that we're seeing on Mad Men Season 7B look just about right.
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Ol' Scratch
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Is that so? Google Images seems to disagree.
http://www.royhigh70.com/Images/01-yearbook.jpg
http://freepages.school-alumni.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fgriffin/images/Seniors_7_750.jpg
Not seeing it in any of the 70's .../Yearbooks/Chico/Chico 1970-74/CHS1971-09.jpg
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~t...monarch/1970/Full_Scan/1970_Monarch_Pg011.jpg
http://www.wisecountytexas.info/misc genealogy/images/Yearbooks/Chico/Chico 1970-74/CHS1972-10.jpg
Yeah, just not seeing it at all. Let's jump to '72 then.
http://www.wisecountytexas.info/misc genealogy/images/Yearbooks/Chico/Chico 1970-74/CHS1972-09.jpg
http://www.jackcountytexas.info/Misc/images/Yearbooks/JHS70/Jacksboro1978-0016.jpg
Ooh, one guy has a 'stache. Not the big bushy with sideburns type, but at least he has some hair under his nose.
I guess you just have some outlier yearbooks or something. I couldn't find any examples of what you described at all, though I didn't look past the first page or so either. Though that should be a strong indicator in and of itself.
Heck, let's go a step further and look at some male fashion pics from 1970. Surely they'd be hip and up to date stylistically.
http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/7sf/f7/1970menstunics.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/98/56/7a/98567a44d523a8cdd84627b0c8da1a43.jpg
http://www.advertisingarchives.co.u...e-Brochure-Plate/Mens-Fashion-1970s/1970s.jpg
Dang, couldn't find any example from 1970 with the 'stache-and-sloppy look. Found quite a few once we got closer to '75, but not 1970 itself.
http://www.royhigh70.com/Images/01-yearbook.jpg
http://freepages.school-alumni.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fgriffin/images/Seniors_7_750.jpg
Not seeing it in any of the 70's .../Yearbooks/Chico/Chico 1970-74/CHS1971-09.jpg
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~t...monarch/1970/Full_Scan/1970_Monarch_Pg011.jpg
http://www.wisecountytexas.info/misc genealogy/images/Yearbooks/Chico/Chico 1970-74/CHS1972-10.jpg
Yeah, just not seeing it at all. Let's jump to '72 then.
http://www.wisecountytexas.info/misc genealogy/images/Yearbooks/Chico/Chico 1970-74/CHS1972-09.jpg
http://www.jackcountytexas.info/Misc/images/Yearbooks/JHS70/Jacksboro1978-0016.jpg
Ooh, one guy has a 'stache. Not the big bushy with sideburns type, but at least he has some hair under his nose.
I guess you just have some outlier yearbooks or something. I couldn't find any examples of what you described at all, though I didn't look past the first page or so either. Though that should be a strong indicator in and of itself.
Heck, let's go a step further and look at some male fashion pics from 1970. Surely they'd be hip and up to date stylistically.
http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/7sf/f7/1970menstunics.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/98/56/7a/98567a44d523a8cdd84627b0c8da1a43.jpg
http://www.advertisingarchives.co.u...e-Brochure-Plate/Mens-Fashion-1970s/1970s.jpg
Dang, couldn't find any example from 1970 with the 'stache-and-sloppy look. Found quite a few once we got closer to '75, but not 1970 itself.
?! Wow, that's a bit strong. No need to have the attitude.
The yearbooks I'm using for a reference are Brockton High School. They range from 1940 to 1990.
https://archive.org/search.php?query=publisher%3A%22Brockton%2C+Mass.+%3A+Brockton+High+School%22
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It's not the end of the world.
But I'm just going by what I remembered as I was looking through them last year. If I misremember it's not a huge deal.
The yearbooks I'm using for a reference are Brockton High School. They range from 1940 to 1990.
https://archive.org/search.php?query=publisher%3A%22Brockton%2C+Mass.+%3A+Brockton+High+School%22
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It's not the end of the world.
But I'm just going by what I remembered as I was looking through them last year. If I misremember it's not a huge deal.
MM has been quite meticulous about getting the period right. Also people in the advertising business as well as show business would have been on the leading edge of fashion and trends. Not all, of course, but some of them would be.
In the music industry longer hair as well as more colourful and expressive clothing was definitely happening in the late '60s. Students in school mightn't have been able to adopt similar fashions quickly or to the same extent, but some if not many would begin to emulate the musicians and celebrities of the day. And this would also happen in the mainstream public and in the workplace. It didn't happen to everyone overnight, but it was definitely beginning to happen.
Seriously all you really have to do is look at television and film made in that era and you'll see hair and clothing starting to break away from the clean-cut look of the early to mid '60s.
http://hair-and-makeup-artist.com/mens-1970s-hairstyles/
In the music industry longer hair as well as more colourful and expressive clothing was definitely happening in the late '60s. Students in school mightn't have been able to adopt similar fashions quickly or to the same extent, but some if not many would begin to emulate the musicians and celebrities of the day. And this would also happen in the mainstream public and in the workplace. It didn't happen to everyone overnight, but it was definitely beginning to happen.
Seriously all you really have to do is look at television and film made in that era and you'll see hair and clothing starting to break away from the clean-cut look of the early to mid '60s.
http://hair-and-makeup-artist.com/mens-1970s-hairstyles/
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