J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on VOY

[Melakon]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

^ Words to live by at all times.

Sorry but that doesn't mean anything.

If you have a problem with anything I've said then elaborate and explain. I'm happy to clarify anything you want

See those time stamps? You and BigJake posted at the same time, he wasn't referring to your post at all.

Ninja'd by the awesome Guy.

 

[BigJake]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Big Jake thought that he was replying to Gov Kodos or me, probably kodos.

Correct. However, your words also were words to live by at all times. I think.

Sorry for the editing confusion hux, my reply to you is here. I'm confident you'll find it edifying.

 

[hux]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

No, I'm not going to explain basic concepts to you like what a rant is or why it's maybe wee bit sexist to insult women with references to one's penis. You're presumably an adult human with opposable thumbs and access to the grand miracle of the Internet, go forth and figure out the basic social graces on your own time. I'll simply leave you to reflect at your leisure on, and to apply to your own conduct as you see fit, the wise words of the immortal philosophical collective 116 Clique:

Real men make mistakes, and they own up to 'em quickly.

Ok, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to assume that you're not paying attention

Go back and check who told the joke; it wasn't me, numpty

I defended the joker from the accusation of being sexist and entitled made by {Emilia}. You are now also presumably accusing him of being sexist. She couldn't explain how it was sexist so I guess it's now your turn.

So either provide a coherent argument as to why a joke about a woman being sexually attractive is sexist (to the extent that it would give you an erection) or stay away from the internet. It clearly perplexes you

Male sexual attraction IS NOT a form of sexism

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Ninja'd by the awesome Guy.

I am way more attractive in a mask.

And women who do not find masked men attractive, usually think it's a stick up and give me their purse.

Win/win.

 

[BigJake]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Ok, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to assume that you're not paying attention [ . . . ] it wasn't me, numpty

Nope, nakedly desperate name-calling* won't get me to do your basic homework for you either. You can find the information you're looking for in a simple Google search; I'm not here to play Dora the Explorer with you, get your own facts in order like an adult, please.

(And yes, you've correctly intuited that I don't believe there's any real difference between defending the joke and making the joke, and yes, you're both sexists. Oh, the humanity! You got called a sexist after doing something sexist! I'm sure I've no idea how you'll ever recover.)

* EDIT: Bravo for editing out "imbecile" but leaving in "numpty," BTW. It's a pleasing challenge to face off with an opponent of such vast, ruthless intellect.

 

[hux]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Nope, nakedly desperate name-calling won't get me to do your basic homework for you either. You can find the information you're looking for in a simple Google search; I'm not here to play Dora the Explorer with you, get your own facts in order like an adult, please.

(And yes, you've correctly intuited that I don't believe there's any real difference between defending the joke and making the joke, and yes, you're both sexists. Oh, the humanity! You got called a sexist after doing something sexist! I'm sure I've no idea how you'll ever recover.)

Sorry but you're speaking gibberish

If you are accusing someone of sexism then you need to back your claim up otherwise you're simply calling someone sexist because you want to (which is moronic)

Explain how sexual attraction is sexist

And remember, saying "it offends you" isn't good enough. Your being offended is meaningless. It amounts to nothing

It's a pleasing challenge to face off with an opponent of such vast, ruthless intellect.

What are you talking about?

Are you unwell?

If you make accusations about someone (who you thought was someone else because you weren't paying attention) then the burden of proof is on you

Please clarify how an innuendo about getting sexually aroused by an obviously attractive women is sexism

 

[BigJake]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

If you are accusing someone of sexism then you need back your claim up . . . Explain how sexual attraction is sexist . . .

Nope, frantically moving goalposts and making empty claims about "gibberish" won't spare you the humiliation of being wrong, either. Nice try, through. Again, the reasons for sexualized joking at women being perceived as sexist are incredibly basic, commonplace knowledge in any HR department (there's a hint there to put you out of your misery if you honestly need one) and there really is no way around that. Quit squirming.

Are you unwell

Because I'm making fun of you? No, I'm quite well. Thanks for asking.

Sure you don't want try lobbing the word "imbecile" at me again?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Jokes aren't allowed to be sexist?

Q: Why are women so bad at parking?

A: because men keep telling them that this (Hold your forefinger and thumb an inch apart, so that the audience can see them) is 6 inches.

...

There's a line between using women as a component of a joke and abusing women, just like there's a line between using men as a component of a joke and abusing men.

Sexuality goes both ways.

 

[hux]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Nope, frantically moving goalposts and making empty claims about "gibberish" won't spare you the humiliation of being wrong, either. Nice try, through. Again, the reasons for sexualized joking at women being perceived as sexist are incredibly basic, commonplace knowledge in any HR department (there's a hint there to put you out of your misery if you honestly need one) and there really is no way around that. Quit squirming.

have I moved the goalposts. Isn't that what people who don't know what's being argued say

I don't think you possess the intelligence to comprehend sexism. I've clearly embarrassed you here but it was your own fault. It was an innuendo about his dick (Ryan's role in the joke was merely to be sexually attractive, which she is) unless you disagree and think she isn't but even then, that doesn't matter

It still isn't sexism

I can recommend a number of books for you to read regarding the sexualisation of women if you'd like (assuming you read) Natasha Little has a book called "Living a dolls" which is excellent. Sexism is virtually everywhere in our society and yes, there are some militant feminists who would like all forms of male sexuality to be regarded as a form of female oppression but those women are simply wrong

I'll say it again. Male sexual attraction is not sexist. Acknowledging a woman's sexual attractiveness is not sexist. This is simply nonsense

NBecause I'm making fun of you? No, I'm quite well. Thanks for asking.

No, because you don't seem to be able to grasp anything I'm saying. Please explain how a joke that utilises a woman's physical attractiveness is sexist. Simply saying.....because it is.....isn't good enough and merely makes you look foolish

 

[Pingfah]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Do you have a problem with periods?

 

[BigJake]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Isn't that what people who don't know what's being argued say

No, it's what people say when they catch you trying to change the subject of an argument because you've obviously stuck your foot in your mouth and cannot admit it. I'm not surprised to find that this is something you've encountered before.

I don't think you possess the intelligence to comprehend sexism.

You owe me a new irony-meter, this one's busted now.

I've clearly embarrassed you here but it was your own fault.

Nope, the old rubber-and-glue gambit will also not save you. Too bad! I'll bet you find yourself relying on that one a lot.

It was an innuendo about his dick . . . It still isn't sexism

Oh! So close! Yes, it was an innuendo about his dick. And yes, that's sexism! And no, I'm still not doing your homework for you, no matter how desperately you try.

I can recommend a number of books for you to read . . .

If you can't grasp a concept this basic, I flatly don't believe you.

Now stop squirming and get that Google search done. You're only digging the hole deeper with each attempt to double down and salvage your ego.

 

[Manticore]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

I'll say it again. Male sexual attraction is not sexist. Acknowledging a woman's sexual attractiveness is not sexist. This is simply nonsense

Agreed, that is nonsense. Anyone saying that someone is seriously arguing that is arguing a strawman.

However, you know what is sexist?

You know I'd really like to see Jeri Ryan meet my staff.

That would be a real staff meeting.

Over the top "jokes" like this are sexist and serve to reinforce sexism.

 

[hux]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Oh! So close! Yes, it was an innuendo about his dick. And yes, that's sexism!.

And there it is

You really do need to read those books

Over the top "jokes" like this are sexist and serve to reinforce sexism.

Nope. It's a crude way of saying "I find Jeri Ryan sexually attractive"

Had he insinuated that he deserved sex with her or that she had nothing to offer the world other than her sexuality then it would be sexist

He expressed a hope. When hoping that beautiful women will have sex with you is sexism, then every man is sexist

As a man, you need to think about the implications of that kind of thinking

 

[{ Emilia }]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Traditionally women have been objectified and seen as sex objects. They were defined by their role as a supplier of sexual satisfaction for a man.

A guy randomly saying he'd like to fuck Jeri Ryan is reinforcing that implication if that really is the only aspect of her that he's commenting on. It's reducing her to her ability to please him. It's even worse in a thread that really wasn't about that in the first place.

In addition to that I find it pretty entitled when men feel the need to tell the whole world who they'd like to fuck. We should give a damn why exactly? Why do men think we need to know who they'd like to fuck?

In further addition to that talk like that creates a locker room atmosphere where female posters are discouraged from discussing a topic when the guys are just talking about who they'd love to fuck, obviously reducing the women in question (like Jeri Ryan in this case) to sex objects. When statements like that randomly come up again and again it makes us wonder if men really only see us as fuck machines.

That's really more lines than I was initially willing to waste on you, Hux. You can go on a rant or try and argue about the minutiae. You can further engage in your sophism just to "win" a discussion but I don't think anybody here is particularly impressed. Or you can stop digging your heels in and maybe think about this for a while.
I'll be honest and say I don't have the least bit of hope. So far you've proven that you're not willing to reconsider your own opinions or engage in an honest discussion. Instead you're just trying to win an internet game. I don't have time for that. Go ahead and write another of your thin-skinned rants. Next you're probably going to pull the classic "So men aren't allowed to talk about a woman's looks at all?!"-line.

The fun part: You're the thin-skinned poster here. The rest of us are pretty relaxed and amused. I don't mind dropping this. I'm not here to provide a free education for you so I won't keep replying to your rants.

Also: My money is on BigJake. He once wrestled a narwhal with his bare hands. The fact that you challenged his intelligence is pure gold, though. Most people don't know it but BigJake was Jean-Paul Sartre's editor.

 

[BigJake]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Being Sartre's editor was an easier gig than the narwhal, I tell you what.

On the other hand, hux reassures me that he has read books. Non-specific, but books nonetheless. The narwhal didn't read books. He'd already be one step ahead if nobody in this thread had a post-secondary education. Or even just a secondary education.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

I've always hated this thread (sorry SPCTRE).

I suspect it will be dying very soon.

I am happy.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

This unfunny joke was constructed because the word staff meeting was used by a woman in conjunction with a jpeg of Janeway and Seven in a romantic embrace stroking each other, to hint that a non existent lesbian affair was happening between two characters.

What if the photoshopped picture had been of B'Elanna fondling Kes' little pixie haircut?

Jeri Ryan/Seven of nine's presence in the "joke" (not funny, so not funny.) was incidental and collateral. Anyone from the cast would have done, even the boys. Jeri was just unfortunately there during the jokes construction. Happenstance.

It'd be gross and disturbing if the photo manipulation had been of both the Delanney sisters suggestively snuggling playing with each others hair?

 

[hux]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Traditionally women have been objectified and seen as sex objects. They were defined by their role as a supplier of sexual satisfaction for a man.

And they very often still are but that does not mean that all male sexuality crosses over into oppressive or objectifying territory. You have to be careful not to label male sexuality (even when it's crudely expressed) as meeting those criteria.

A guy randomly saying he'd like to fuck Jeri Ryan is reinforcing that implication if that really is the only aspect of her that he's commenting on. It's reducing her to her ability to please him. It's even worse in a thread that really wasn't about that in the first place.

It wasn't random. It was in the context of the thread discussion and it utilised an innuendo based on what someone else had said. He didn't just turn up and shout...I want to fuck Jeri Ryan. He employed a double entendre that expressed no entitlement whatsoever. He clearly expressed it as a hope, not a right

In addition to that I find it pretty entitled when men feel the need to tell the whole world who they'd like to fuck. We should give a damn why exactly? Why do men think we need to know who they'd like to fuck?

It's entitled? How so

And does this also apply when women express a sexual desire towards a man? You might not want to hear it but so what. That still doesn't constitute entitlement. It's an expression of desire

In further addition to that talk like that creates a locker room atmosphere where female posters are discouraged from discussing a topic when the guys are just talking about who they'd love to fuck, obviously reducing the women in question (like Jeri Ryan in this case) to sex objects. When statements like that randomly come up again and again it makes us wonder if men really only see us as fuck machines.

There is an entire Janeway thread dedicated to her sexiness which primarily appears to be populated by female posters. are they reducing her to a sex object? Sexuality is not a crime. Male sexuality is not a crime. Female sexuality is not a crime.

That's really more lines than I was initially willing to waste on you, Hux. You can go on a rant or try and argue about the minutiae. You can further engage in your sophism just to "win" a discussion but I don't think anybody here is particularly impressed. Or you can stop digging your heels in and maybe think about this for a while.
I'll be honest and say I don't have the least bit of hope. So far you've proven that you're not willing to reconsider your own opinions or engage in an honest discussion. Instead you're just trying to win an internet game. I don't have time for that. Go ahead and write another of your thin-skinned rants. Next you're probably going to pull the classic "So men aren't allowed to talk about a woman's looks at all?!-line.

You can't claim the high ground then suggest any criticism of it isn't valid. It may simply be the case that our definitions of sexism are very different. I dislike the notion that any expression of male sexuality is a form of sexism. Women have experienced and continue to experience sexism and discrimination but that doesn't mean that all accusations of sexism are equal. It may have been a crude joke but he did not suggest he deserved something or was entitled to it and it's very dangerous to equate male sexuality with female oppression. Sexuality is not the domain of men. Women also have a sexuality and nobody would suggest expressing it is problematic. Male sexuality is certainly coloured by oppressive patriarchy but in and of itself, it is not oppressive and the distinction needs to be made

The fun part: You're the thin-skinned poster here. The rest of us are pretty relaxed and amused. I don't mind dropping this. I'm not here to provide a free education for you so I won't keep replying to your rants.

I'm still not seeing where i rant. Have I not been reasonably articulate in all my responses?

Also: My money is on BigJake. He once wrestled a narwhal with his bare hands. The fact that you challenged his intelligence is pure gold, though. Most people don't know it but BigJake was Jean-Paul Sartre's editor.

Your money is on what. You're accusing me of looking for a fight yet you and BigJake are the ones who keep bringing up winning something. I have a beautiful girlfriend, a house by the beach and plenty of crips in the cupboard. I've already won

 

[{ Emilia }]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Male sexuality is not a crime.

I knew it.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: J. Ryan Speaks About Her ‘Intentionally Unpleasant’ Experiences on

Emilia until you have a house by the beach I think you better be quiet.