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The Walking Dead Season 5

Is it normal to hate a show with such a passion, yet you can't stop watching it?

I'm not sure anyone would watch it season after season and hate the series. Disappointing story and character directions are the culprit, and the idea that the producers do not care about the concerns of the audience...and that's not limited to diehard fanboy stereotypes.

Wasn't part of that whole "too far gone" point that the bad ones don't really get to have redemption in this world? There just isn't the time and resources for it to happen. I feel like at a certain point, Rick could go that way, but not in the more charming Walter White type of way.

Yes, that was the point with the Governor. From his every action at Woodbury to repeated acts of abuse & murder to his manipulation of the second group, there was no redemption for one who was evil to his core, and only saw his ideological opposite (i.e. good) as a threat to destroy.

Rick has certainly arrived at this point. He may not have the Governor's body count, but he sees people as weak or a threat--all for his own concerns (in the bigger picture).

I would be disappointed to see exiled Rick--never learning any lesson--returning to save the day, only to reinforce his "kill or be killed" / "my way or the executioner's block" philosophy on the survivors.

Adding to his turn to evil, it would be sickening (not in a way that helps the series) if Rick tries to be the Ricktator again, but to prove he means business, kills one of his companions who disagree with him.
 
I don't even think it will get to exile. While Deanna is deciding how to handle him, a threat will find itself at the gates, and she'll turn Rick loose on it, confirming her feeling that people like him are necessary.

Or maybe Rick's people won't act to save Alexandria unless they free him.
 
Rick has certainly arrived at this point. He may not have the Governor's body count, but he sees people as weak or a threat--all for his own concerns (in the bigger picture).

Rick has his problems for sure, but he's nowhere near the level of crazy of the governor. Or even Shane for that matter. He's still fucked up, but somehow I think it would be out of character to do some of the things those others have done. Like there's still a line he won't cross.

I kinda thought he was crossing a line a little bit with Jessie, but not one that makes him evil. Just maybe immoral, even by the moral standards of this world. They really don't give us a lot to like about Rick other than the actor himself. Even with characters like Walter White, they still had their redeeming qualities (for viewers, not in universe).
 
I'm thinking that the purpose of this story arc-- putting our characters in Pleasant Valley Sunday-land-- is to show how traumatized they have become. That they are so damaged by being in a constant state of war that they can no longer feel comfortable in civilization. Even Micchone, who hung up her sword over the fireplace and clocked ranting Rick, is uneasy about losing her edge (edge-- see what I did there?). As long as the characters learn something from all this, it's fine.

EW and Huffpost are both reporting the title of the spinoff series to be "Fear The Walking Dead" and that we'll get our first clip during "Taking Dead" after the 90 min season ender.

I'm not sure about the title, pretty lame if you ask me. I think this BBS came up with something better. But, hey, you take what you get.
I like it. Very B-Movie. :mallory:
 
I'm okay with it. Not sure the title really matters anyway. At least they didn't go the route procedural dramas go in and call it "The Walking Dead: Los Angeles."
 
I've read some spoilers about the finale from a reputable source and once again, it would seem that my imagination is more interesting than what the writers can come up with *sigh*

Morgan wakes up in a car. He makes some porridge-type food by a fire. An armed man (Benedict Samuel) walks over and points a gun at him. Morgan asks what the W on his head means. He explains the backstory about the wolves. He says "you know the first settlers here, put bounties on wolves heads, brought the natives into it, made them hunt them. Didn't take them to long to kill them all (points to the W on his forehead) they're back now."

After threatening to take Morgan and kill him, Morgan takes him out ninja style with his hiking stick along with a second Wolves member (Jesse C. Boyd) who jumps out of some bushes. Morgan ties them up and puts them in the car. He sounds the horn and walks off.

Rick wakes up to Michonne watching him. She says that Pete is in another house. Carol, Glenn and Abe enter. Carol butts in and asks why Rick took the guns (hiding the fact she was involved). Carol tells Rick that he should tell a story the town wants to hear (that he will follow their rules) at the meeting later. Carol says that's what she's been doing since they got there. Michonne asks why. Carol replies, “Because these people are children and children like stories.” Rick engineers a plan to reinstate the Ricktatorship and hold Deanna’s family at knife point so they can take the armory.

Maggie tries to persuade Deanna to change her mind about Rick. Reg backs Maggie up.

Sasha buries some walkers and takes a nap in the grave, because why sleep in a warm bed when you can sleep in a cozy grave of death?

Carol wakes Rick and gives him back his gun. She didn't tell the others about the guns just in case they didn't understand. Rick says he does not want to lie. Carol says, “You want this place and you don't want to lie. Sunshine, you don't get both.” Carol keeps it real.

Daryl and Aaron watch a guy in a red poncho from afar. Recruiter spy mode activated.

Nicholas watches Glenn while acting suspicious. Maggie comes over to chat about working everything out.

Glenn sees Nicholas climb the walls.

Father G leaves the community unarmed.

Daryl and Aaron lose red poncho guy, but find a food warehouse. Daryl opens a truck, which triggers a trap opening three other truck doors. It releases a hundred or so walkers. There are torsos hanging inside on hooks. Daryl wins zombie kill of the year after beheading three walkers with a rusty chain in one swing. They both take refuge in a car, surrounded by walkers pounding on the window. Inside is a note saying, “Trap, bad people coming. Don't stay.

Carol visits Pete in an effort to get him to check on Tara. She brings Pete some food and holds a knife to his throat after he tells her to get out. Carol continues to keep it real.

Glenn follows Nicholas through the forest. After pausing to look at a dead walker, Glenn is shot in the shoulder and rolls down a slope.

Rick checks up on Jessie. Pete sees them both from his 'house prison'.

Daryl formulates a plan to fight his way through the crowd to give Aaron a chance to run. Before they head out, our hero Morgan shows up like a boss and helps them both to a safe distance. Aaron tells him about the ASZ. Morgan says he is going somewhere else but is lost and pulls out a map. Daryl shows him where they are on the map. He sees the note, “Sorry I was an *beep* come to Washington. The new world’s gonna need Rick grimes.” Daryl looks at Morgan, but does not acknowledge the note.

Father Gabriel finds a walker and is ready to die by its dirty dead hands. He notices a noose around the walker’s head. He changes his mind and then uses the noose to rip the walker’s head off. He cries in the middle of the road.

Abraham visits a bed-bound, unconscious Tara. Rosita and Eugene are there too.

Abraham and Eugene both apologize to each other for what happened in the past.

Gabriel returns and Spencer asks him to shut the gate. Gabriel barely even makes the effort to close it and walks off, leaving it unlocked.

Nicholas and Glenn fight, leaving Glenn stuck under a pile of walkers.

Michonne asks Rick if he is ready (for the meeting). He explains to Michonne how they took the guns and attempts to give his piece to Michonne. She pushes his hand away and lets him keep it. She explains that she's not against Rick and will follow him however it all pans out.

Rick, while in his room, recounts an old conversation with Bob: (Rick’s voice) 'This is the real world Bob.' Bob replies, 'No this is a nightmare, and nightmares end.'

Rick finds the gate open and some blood on the lock as well as some on the ground. He locks it and runs off.

Gabe returns to his church to find Sasha waiting for him. She wants to talk about what she is going through.

The meeting is starting without Rick and Glenn. Deanna talks about how Rick took the pistol and pointed it at people.

Nicholas is navigating the forest while Rick is searching the community. It's now night time. (Sunset came rather quickly.)

Gabe refuses to console Sasha and very nastily talks about how Bob was dismembered causing Sasha to scream at him and pin him to a wall. Father Dick is full of fail.

Deanna, Abraham, Maggie, Michonne and Carol say their piece to the town about Rick. Meanwhile, Gabe is wrestling Sasha's rifle out of her hands. Rick is fighting off three walkers in the town and Glenn is beating up Nicholas.
Two members of the Wolves bring red poncho guy to the trap that Daryl and Aaron escaped from earlier. They slit red Poncho’s throat and reset the trap using music (to get the walkers back in the trucks).

Glenn points a gun to Nicholas' head, but spares his life.

Back at the meeting, Tobin is defending Deanna when Rick walks in with a walker corpse. He throws it on the ground.

Sasha is pointing her gun at Gabriel, who is stopped by Maggie. He shouts that she should have let Sasha shoot him because everyone died because of him.

Rick explains how the walker got in through an open gate and that the dead and living will always find a way in. He says, “The ones out there will hunt us and find us. You need to change now.” While he is saying this speech, we see Glenn carry Nicholas away, Carl with Judith at home, Maggie, Sasha and Gabe praying together, Tara waking up, and a Wolves member going through Aaron's photos of the ASZ.

A wild-looking Pete appears wielding Michonne’s katana and shouts "You're not one of us!" He pushes Reg out the way, slitting his throat by accident. Abe pins Pete down. Deanna hysterically holding a dying Reg says, "Rick, do it." Without hesitation, Rick executes Pete. Goodbye, porch dick.

A familiar face calls Rick's name. Rick looks up to see Aaron, Daryl and Morgan standing there.

Morgan and Rick share a moment

Season six really needs to up it's game
 
Sounds like what I would expect from TWD and that is not a bad thing. Someone is missing though. Did Carl not show up for the shoot?
 
I kinda thought he was crossing a line a little bit with Jessie, but not one that makes him evil. Just maybe immoral, even by the moral standards of this world. They really don't give us a lot to like about Rick other than the actor himself. Even with characters like Walter White, they still had their redeeming qualities (for viewers, not in universe).

You are right--audiences love Lincoln, but that is not the character. The character has not faced some sort of punishment (no matter the form) for his immoral actions, so he's just a neverending monster who always has someone just accept or cover for him.

I've read some spoilers about the finale from a reputable source and once again, it would seem that my imagination is more interesting than what the writers can come up with *sigh*

If there's any truth to the spoiler, I hope visuals speak louder than words, but yeah, much of the speculation reads as more interesting than the contents of the spoiler.

Season six really needs to up it's game
With all of the "W" activity seen so far, plus the threat of more internal conflict, I would not be shocked to see main cast deaths as frequent as the near back-to-back bucket-kicking in this season. But character deaths need meaning fr the audience, not just more "this world is grim, deadly 'n stuff" approach to plotlines.
 
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I've read some spoilers about the finale from a reputable source and once again, it would seem that my imagination is more interesting than what the writers can come up with *sigh*

...

Season six really needs to up it's game

Didn't give it an intense read, scanned it. But from what I saw nothing too shocking/surprising. In line with what I was expecting.

But you clearly aren't happy with it and I'm wondering if you even *like* this show. And if you don't, why are you here? If you *do* then none of that should be unexpected. As we've all said the show more-or-less "plays it safe", as safe as one can in this particular setting and genre. There was little to no reason to expect a big twist or anything too shocking. As shocking as this show gets is killing off a major character when it's least expected. And even then it's more-or-less telegraphed or expected to some degree or another.

Regardless with how "safe" the show plays it, it still remains engaging and entertaining and remains one of the most-watched shows on TV. So, clearly, what they're doing is working.
 
I'm with Rick. Alexandria is full of delusional fools. They don't even really react to their own people getting killed, they just go on with their ridiculously unsustainable fantasy lives like the dead just "moved on". Sure, Deanna's family grieved, but they're all so weird the rest of the time. The place is like Stepford only there's no sinister ulterior motive beneath it all. They're just idiots.

Every single decision Deanna has made on screen has been insane, including giving the heroes positions of authority. She's begging to be overthrown by the first stiff breeze to blow by.

If Rick really wanted to go full Shane he would have just killed Porchdick one night and dumped his body over the wall. Instead he approaches Deanna about the threat, then the wife, and then tries to be reasonable and do the cop thing, arrest the guy, and nearly gets beaten to death for his trouble.

Sure, he's into Jessie, but so what? And who wouldn't be? She's attractive, she's kind, she's intelligent, and she's open to accepting outside help. Does she not deserve that because the result might offend her neighbors? Is her marriage a suicide pact?

Her husband beats her unconscious, torments their son, and is clearly an unstable drunk who is wasted most of the time while he's relied on as the source of medical knowledge. Screw him. It's the apocalypse. There's only so many people left and wasting everyone's time and more valuable lives on human refuse like Nicholas or Porchdick just isn't an option anymore.

Eh, John Hamm will sweep in with the Wolves soon enough, anyway, and that'll end the debate pretty quick. Unless the Alexandrians think a cocktail party and a few heart-to-heart video interviews will win over Negan and his crew.
 
I just don't get how useful PorchDick is as a doctor if he's hammered all of the time. When Glenn et. al. got back to Alexandria with the injured Tara how useful was PD in helping her? He was either hammered or unconscious.

And if Deanna can really "read people" as she claimed in the episode where we first met her, surely she saw the "honesty" in Glenn and Eugene when they recounted the story and the lies Dick-Face was telling, especially given that he was on previous runs where people were lost.

Much of it just doesn't add up too well.
 
But you clearly aren't happy with it and I'm wondering if you even *like* this show. And if you don't, why are you here?

I'm also a fan of Voyager but I could happily discuss its immense flaws and terrible writing and poor character development too. I've never understood people who think if you criticise a show, you therefore can't possibly like it. I love TWD but it has also disappointed me on more than one occasion

Regardless with how "safe" the show plays it, it still remains engaging and entertaining and remains one of the most-watched shows on TV. So, clearly, what they're doing is working.

Firstly, it's a zombie apocalypse (with a decent budget). That premise was pretty much always going to have a guaranteed audience

Secondly, it's success is the very reason why they should be willing to be more adventurous and take a few more risks. We've arrived at season six. Time to stop playing it safe. The show clearly has an audience so give them something intelligent or you might find that that audience will start to lose interest
 
I'm with Rick. Alexandria is full of delusional fools. They don't even really react to their own people getting killed, they just go on with their ridiculously unsustainable fantasy lives like the dead just "moved on".

By the time the audience encounters ASZ, the practice of leaving peopple behind was long in place, so they are not going to run screaming down Alexandria streets every time someone dies. Moroever, as you point out:

Sure, Deanna's family grieved
...which means that they have not completely lost their humanity--at least within their own family. Tonight's events might change--or reveal something else.

Every single decision Deanna has made on screen has been insane, including giving the heroes positions of authority. She's begging to be overthrown by the first stiff breeze to blow by.
Do you really think she does not have some other motive for placing them in key positions?

If Rick really wanted to go full Shane he would have just killed Porchdick one night and dumped his body over the wall. Instead he approaches Deanna about the threat, then the wife, and then tries to be reasonable and do the cop thing, arrest the guy, and nearly gets beaten to death for his trouble.
He is already on the Shane path with his immoral lust for a married woman, stroking the handle of his gun when watching Pete, and by the way, on the street, Rick was close to killing Pete. That was no random police call to a domestic situation, but it was fueled by his growing, Shane-like obsession with Jessie.

I imagine the only thing that will shake Rick out of his lust is Jessie rejecting him / preferring to keep her family together instead of supporting him. If that does not happen, get ready for "Better Angels" 2.0.

Screw him. It's the apocalypse. There's only so many people left and wasting everyone's time and more valuable lives on human refuse like Nicholas or Porchdick just isn't an option anymore.
So, how does Tara survive? With a machete, river water and Daryl's dirty rag?

Eh, John Hamm will sweep in with the Wolves soon enough, anyway, and that'll end the debate pretty quick. Unless the Alexandrians think a cocktail party and a few heart-to-heart video interviews will win over Negan and his crew.
You keep thinking they are all clueless, but the same can be said of Rick's group: not only did they have to learn ultimately deadly lessons from the Governor--twice, but for all of Rick's latter day paranoia, one would think he would have thought twice before following the tracks to Terminus (promising survival...red alert, anyone??). It did not matter if he hid a sack of weapons, his decision still had the group seconds away from becoming an all-you-can-eat lunch for a Starbucks cashier and Tasha Yar.

How well did it go trying to negotiate with an ego-maniacal police officer at the hospital? Whether they tried a prisoner exchange or Rick's original (and astoundingly reckless) death-race plan, Dawn and her officers would close ranks temporarily to protect their hospital, which would lead to more deaths.

The point is that no one has the jump on the entire ZA world--including Rick. As mentioned before, no outpost could survive two years of hordes of zombies, roaming humans while having the time to build walls and an idependent infrastructure without experiencing the horror first hand.

...or, if they are the Stepford sheep you believe them to be--considering all that I've said about the ZA--then it just bad writing that makes no sense.
 
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Seems to me what the ASZ folks have lost isn't humanity so much as their sense of reality. They live in a bubble, wallpapered to look like their former lives, wherein their perspective on what the world is & can be is skewed, & they don't even get that it's not even all that great a fantasy to begin with, what with belligerent drunken town doc, & the dimwit & yellowbelly brigade on wall duty & supply runs

That's what Deanna's hidden agenda is, fear that the whole place is destine to crumble, without getting people like Rick's gang in there to make it viable. Sooner than later they'll get the picture that viable & optimal are 2 different things, the former & not the latter being necessary for both groups, because 1 was "almost out there too long" & the other is blissfully uninvolved with what is out there at all.

No wonder Rick can't find a stable foothold or get his head screwed on right in this place. They're more concerned with book clubs than perimeter defense. Frankly, despite outward appearances, I'd take what they were building at the prison over this place any day of the week

Had I been interviewed coming into the ASZ. My 1ST words would've been "WE DID THIS ALREADY! Yours may be prettier, but ours was stronger, smarter, and more equal, capable, & unified, AND IT STILL FELL!"

Then I'd say "Oh... and don't listen to anything the reverend says. He's a stray we found who'd been barricaded in a church the whole time, & his choo-choo don't go all the way round the bend" :lol:
 
He hates himself for letting all those people die, but he takes it out on everyone else. He talks about how nasty Rick's group are, but they always treat him better than he deserves.
 
Gabriel's too much. He really needs to snap out of it and realize the reality he's living in. Hopefully he has at this point.

Fantastic finale, in concert with the recap-spoiler above it was more-or-less what I would have expected. Having Morgan in it was a nice surprise and when I realized he was playing a larger part in the episode I figured he'd be the surprise guest on TTD.

The scene with Daryl and Aaron trapped in the car was good, and I liked the trap set with the trailers at the food warehouse. I think Enid needs to teach everyone her egg-timer "bomb" trick.

Didn't expect Mr. Mayor to die in such a manner (I only skimmed the spoiler-recap above) which, wow. Don't blame Deana for agreeing to let Rick kill Porch Dick.

I still find Rick to overall be right but he just has a pretty crummy way of making his point, or getting to a point where he can make his point clearly and coherently.

And it did really get dark quick between Gabriel leaving the gate open, Rick finding the gate open, chasing down the walkers and then the nighttime meeting.

They *almost* had me with Glenn. I was watching the show over at my parents' and my mom was asking me if Glenn dies and all I could say was, "If he dies here, it's not how he dies in the comics." But I was left wondering since we never really cut-back to Glenn escaping. Wasn't surprised he couldn't kill DickWeed. I wonder what will become with that.

Eugene sure spews a lot of nonsense, speaks in circles and almost in a Data-like format. But the "making up" between him and Abraham was pretty well done. So... It's been two or three months since Eugene fessed-up. Have they really not talked in all of this time?

I'm still not 100% "with" Carol and don't quite get the "love" for her so many have. Hell, one could argue many of the problems caused in the last few episodes are because of her. She pretty much set these wheels in motion and more-or-less was "guiding" Rick into lying to the rest of their group about their stash of guns.

Morgan, though, seems to have certainly re-grasped his sanity and has become quite awesome at protecting himself. Loved his encounter with the "Wolves" at his campsite and then saving Aaron and Daryl.

Really good finale, can't believe we have to wait until October to revisit these characters! But we got a sneak-teaser of the spin-off tonight (and a sneak-look on TTD tonight) and it should prove to be interesting given it's set in the very beginning of the apocalypse in a much more urban setting.

Not watching TTD tonight, just watched the first segment, up to the "In Memoriam" sequence. Will watch it tomorrow.

Enjoyed this season. May rank it as the best season of the series so-far. And here's to looking for next season and the spin-off this Summer!
 
I really enjoyed this finale and really breathed a sigh of relief when none of our main characters died tonight. I loved the scene after Pete killed Reg and Deanna just looked at Rick, said his name, and without hesitation Rick did what needed to be done. Although some small part of me is wondering if they aren't messing with us and that Rick was just putting a bullet in Reg and not Pete.
 
No, he was definitely aiming down. I think that this was an awesome finale--a very tense episode with lots of set-up for the peril yet to come. I'm recording TD so I can watch it tomorrow.
 
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