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Why Did The Enterprise Hide In The Ocean?

How did Nero fool the cadet ships? If you're implying that he was the one who faked the distress call, that makes no sense whatsoever. Why would he do such a thing? He only wants to destroy Vulcan while Spock Prime watches from Delta Vega as revenge. Nero has no interest whatsoever in luring 8 ships to Vulcan just to destroy them too. Obviously the distress call came from Vulcan.
Vulcan had no reason to send a distress call about seismic disturbances when no drilling was causing those yet. Nero OTOH had every reason to lure all the remaining local starships to their doom, so that he wouldn't have to face them in a situation where they would stand against him in battle readiness.

Nero doesn't just want to destroy Vulcan: his stated aim is to die doing maximal damage to the Federation, as he soon demonstrates by attempting to destroy Earth. Diverting Starfleet is a necessary (but, alas, not successful) element there, and well within Nero's means. That he does it once is good indication that he did it twice.

Again, we have no idea what the Narada was doing before it started drilling. It could have been taking out Vulcan's orbital and planetary defenses. That would give Vulcan plenty of time to send out their distress call before Nero even started up his drill.
But we know this did not happen. Starfleet had no information about any sort of an attack against Vulcan when it sent the cadet fleet. Instead, it had this incorrect, falsified information about seismic disturbances, apparently tailored so that not just the wet-behind-the-antennae cadets but also the veteran Admirals were fooled into believing in a natural disaster.

And even if Nero was responsible, why would he make such a lure? If destroying those 8 ships over Vulcan was that easy, then he would have just destroyed the rest of the fleet
We know that destroying starships is the opposite of easy for Nero. Twice a single undercrewed starship defeats him, despite Nero getting in a whole lot of sucker punches first - the Kelvin and the Enterprise both triumph, stopping Nero in his tracks.

Clearly, the success on Vulcan orbit requires extraordinary rationalization, then. And happily, it's something we did not see happen, as opposed to Nero's onscreen defeat by single starships. So we better appeal to Nero's two known weapons: information warfare, red matter, and a fanatical devotion to doing the same thing over and over again...

Similarly, we never saw that 47:1 fight happen. The easiest explanation is that it never did. The second-easiest is that Nero used cunning disinformation tricks and red matter traps, neither of which were available to him in the two onscreen fights where he lost to single ships. But it's one hell of a task to try and invent a way for Nero to defeat those 47 ships in a "fair fight", given all the actual evidence.

Nero also never admitted he had done anything of the sort, and he is most definitely the type of person who would admit such a thing to Kirk, Spock, Pike, or anyone the first chance he got.
No. Nero never "admitted" anything about red matter or the abduction and torturing of Starfleet officers to any of the above, even though both were elemental to his plans, actions and triumphs.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Vulcan had no reason to send a distress call about seismic disturbances when no drilling was causing those yet.

Was the distress call specifically about seismic disturbances? AFAIK, there was nothing specific about the distress call, so it could have been anything.

Nero OTOH had every reason to lure all the remaining local starships to their doom, so that he wouldn't have to face them in a situation where they would stand against him in battle readiness.
Nero wasn't even aware that those 8 ships existed until they got to Vulcan, because they answered Vulcan's distress call.

Nero doesn't just want to destroy Vulcan: his stated aim is to die doing maximal damage to the Federation, as he soon demonstrates by attempting to destroy Earth. Diverting Starfleet is a necessary (but, alas, not successful) element there, and well within Nero's means. That he does it once is good indication that he did it twice.
So if Nero wants to destroy the Federation, why the pretense to lure ships to the Laurentian Sector? Why not just destroy them outright as easily as he did the cadet ships?

But we know this did not happen. Starfleet had no information about any sort of an attack against Vulcan when it sent the cadet fleet.
Er, anything could have been happening on Vulcan. That's what a distress call is for. The planet could very well have been under attack, which is what the movie implies with all the, you know, destroyed ships.

Instead, it had this incorrect, falsified information about seismic disturbances, apparently tailored so that not just the wet-behind-the-antennae cadets but also the veteran Admirals were fooled into believing in a natural disaster.
Why would Vulcan be sending out a distress call to Starfleet about a natural seismic disaster? When California has an earthquake, do they call the U.S. Navy?

We know that destroying starships is the opposite of easy for Nero. Twice a single undercrewed starship defeats him, despite Nero getting in a whole lot of sucker punches first - the Kelvin and the Enterprise both triumph, stopping Nero in his tracks.
Wrong. Destroying 100 year old ships is a piece of cake for him, as long as one of those ships doesn't make a suicide run at him, which none of the 8 ships apparently did, or having a ship named Enterprise with a Spock on board, causing Nero to stop his attack. If he hadn't looked at the viewscreen and saw "NCC-1701," that ship would have been toast along with the others.

Similarly, we never saw that 47:1 fight happen. The easiest explanation is that it never did. The second-easiest is that Nero used cunning disinformation tricks and red matter traps, neither of which were available to him in the two onscreen fights where he lost to single ships. But it's one hell of a task to try and invent a way for Nero to defeat those 47 ships in a "fair fight", given all the actual evidence.
What would be the point of broadcasting that 47 Klingon ships were destroyed if it didn't actually happen?
 
Was the distress call specifically about seismic disturbances? AFAIK, there was nothing specific about the distress call, so it could have been anything.
That's the thing - when Chekov is allowed to divulge the mission specs to the crew, he has but two items:

1) At 2200 hours, a "lightning storm in space" was observed at the Neutral Zone.
2) "Soon after", Vulcan High Command sent a distress call specifically stating that "their planet vas experiencing seismic actiwity".

And that's it. No mention of other information from Vulcan, no speculation that there would be a threat to starships there. Only a concluding remark that the mission is to evaluate the local situation, and "assist in the ewacuations if necessarrry". It seems that Chekov still believes in the natural disaster theory, and I see no reason to think he's being lied at by his superiors, or that the other ships operate on different assumptions.

Now, it's curious that Starfleet jumps to the conclusion that the NZ phenomenon is related to the Vulcan disturbances. I can't help but think that Vulcan must be sitting right next to this Neutral Zone (be it with Klingons or Romulans, although the latter would be in line with things like TNG "Unification" while the former is not indicated anywhere)...

Nero wasn't even aware that those 8 ships existed until they got to Vulcan, because they answered Vulcan's distress call.
Or then the call was made by Nero, who knew everything he needed to know because he was a habitual kidnapper and torturer of Starfleet personnel.

None of the dialogue suggests the ships were a surprise to Nero at all. The late arrival of the Enterprise was, if not a surprise, then at least an annoyance, but that's it.

So if Nero wants to destroy the Federation, why the pretense to lure ships to the Laurentian Sector? Why not just destroy them outright as easily as he did the cadet ships?
Surely there must be a difference between destroying eight ships crewed by third-rate personnel and hundreds of ships crewed by regulars and veterans?

The planet could very well have been under attack, which is what the movie implies with all the, you know, destroyed ships.
Starfleet had no information about any attacks, or of any destroyed ships - or at least never relayed such information to the cadet fleet. (It does seem Nero had done some fighting at Vulcan prior to the cadet fleet massacre, though, as there was the wreckage of one USS Mayflower there but no such ship was among those stated launched from Earth.)

Why would Vulcan be sending out a distress call to Starfleet about a natural seismic disaster? When California has an earthquake, do they call the U.S. Navy?
Well, basically, yes. The USN is the party with all those helicopters and at-hand supplies, after all.

The explicit mission of the cadet fleet was to assist in evacuations. Apparently, starships are great for this sort of work, and Vulcan has few if any in orbit at the time, so Earth needs to lend those.

Destroying 100 year old ships is a piece of cake for him, as long as one of those ships doesn't make a suicide run at him, which none of the 8 ships apparently did
That "apparent" is pretty difficult to swallow: why wouldn't one ship out of a hundred make that decision to save tens of thousands, when we know one ship out of one did it to save mere 800?

And there was no need for the Enterprise to do anything suicidal. Nero: "Fire EVERYTHING!!!!". Enterprise: "Pew, pew, we saw your everything and it amounted to nothing".

Onscreen, Nero is flying a civilian vessel that cannot stand against warships. That the same ship succeeds against a small force of warships offscreen just begs for an explanation. One readily offers itself: Nero has recently obtained red matter, which will later destroy his own ship, not to mention an entire planet. Nero is a miner. So, red matter mine warfare is the one type of warfare that this civilian probably can successfully practice against actual soldiers! :devil:

If he hadn't looked at the viewscreen and saw "NCC-1701," that ship would have been toast along with the others.
Pike certainly seemed to think otherwise. He was confident to fight back until presented with another option. Since we later saw how easy it was for the starship to stop Nero's missiles, it's quite possible Pike could have won that first fight, just like Sulu won the second one.

What would be the point of broadcasting that 47 Klingon ships were destroyed if it didn't actually happen?
Umm, the very topic of this discussion, of course. If there's something so scary out there that it can kill 47 Klingon ships, then Starfleet needs to launch everything (except a weak and undercrewed rear guard) to counter that threat.

All Nero needs to do is choose the location of the threat so that it's close enough to be scary, but distant enough to strand Starfleet away from Vulcan and Earth. And apparently, Laurentius fit the bill perfectly - so perfectly in fact that the mathematically talented Spock thought it would be a great idea to fly there, rather than to Earth, for repairs and regrouping, thus playing right into Nero's pocket.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Real World answer" The effect of seeing the ship rise out of the ocean was "cool".

No other reason I can think of.

Personally, I thought that was the most moronic part of the film, and for all the reasons you mention.

No, it was stated in the film, they were in the ocean to hide from the aliens. Not because it was "cool" :)
 
Perhaps that was one and the same thing? Perhaps the aliens see deeper into infrared than we do, and sinking the ship in the cool ocean was a better idea than having her hover over the village in the night sky and glow unlike any star... :p

Timo Saloniemi
 
Real World answer" The effect of seeing the ship rise out of the ocean was "cool".

No other reason I can think of.

Personally, I thought that was the most moronic part of the film, and for all the reasons you mention.

No, it was stated in the film, they were in the ocean to hide from the aliens. Not because it was "cool" :)

Doesn't work. They could have hid from the aliens just by staying in orbit.
 
More exactly, they could have been a bit less conspicuous if staying in orbit. They would still have been spotted unless they went away when the local sun illuminated them against the blackness of the night sky (or unless they painted their ship black), but it would have been more difficult for the locals to draw detailed pictures of them...

("Orbit", it should be noted, would apparently mean hovering relatively low over the village. Transporters are line-of-sight devices, incapable of penetrating more than a couple of kilometers of rock in a good day. They also lack the range to operate from a geosynchronous orbit - heck, Scotty said a couple of hundred klicks was already an achievement in the previous movie! So a starship skipper who cares about the landing party down below would fly an orbit in the aircraft sense, not in the spacecraft sense, doing figure-eights above the village.)

Timo Saloniemi
 
to make a visual spectacle.. not that there is anything wrong with that.:)
 
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Real World answer" The effect of seeing the ship rise out of the ocean was "cool".

No other reason I can think of.

Personally, I thought that was the most moronic part of the film, and for all the reasons you mention.

No, it was stated in the film, they were in the ocean to hide from the aliens. Not because it was "cool" :)

Doesn't work. They could have hid from the aliens just by staying in orbit.

Agreed. I got the impression the underwater stuff was included because the producers decided that it had never been done before in Trek and the Enterprise rising from the ocean would look amazing. Which it did.

It was dumb but enjoyable nonetheless.
 
Is this still a thing? didn't the movie come out two years ago now, I mean come on.

Hey, we're Star Trek fans. To paraphrase a famous captain: "Nitpicking is Our Business. That's what this BBS is all about. THAT'S WHY WE'RE ABOARD HER!"
 
Pretty sure there WAS a reason given: The minerals in the lava interfered with sensors (why they needed to get line of sight to beam Spock up).

Because of said sensor interference, I easily accepted the idea that the Enterprise needed to be really nearby the volcano to accurately monitor its activity for the procedure Spock was performing. So close, in fact, that the ship couldn't be easily concealed from the natives anywhere but underwater.
 
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