North And South (1980s TV miniseries)

[Lance]

I've been watching these for the first time after being recommended them by someone who said it would "really be your thing". I've watched all of Books One and Two so far, and as expected really tended to enjoy them. But Book Three is mostly terrible, all the worst kinds of jumping the shark.

Some great moments in the first two 'books', and an all-star cast: Patrick Swayze and James Reade are both terrific and have a believable screen chemstry together (although Swayze's very 80s hairstyle stretched credibility at times, lol ), and there are some awesome bit parts for the likes of Johnny Cash and Robert Mitchum. And of course, we have Commander Riker and Lieutenant Saavik sharing a lot of screen-time together. David Carradine is also really believable as an evil S-O-B, maybe too believable.

(Incidentally, it's really weird seeing Frakes as Stanley Hazard in Books One and Two, which were both filmed before he even played Commander Riker for the first time, but his part in Book Three, shot in 1994, is pretty obviously a 'post-Riker' part, and not just because he's sporting the trademark beard by then either, heh. )

I think my favorite thing of all, particularly being a non-American and somebody for whom the US civil war isn't therefore a part of my history, is the way that the series really does show the heartbreak of the conflict. The strengh of the series was clearly in its characters, and (at least in Books One and Two) they're all believable people, and as a viewer I found myself really empathizing for the way their friendships get broken apart simply because they were unfortunate enough to be on opposite sides of a border.

Book Three really did see a rapid decline though. Not just because certain stars were no longer in it, but also because it did that soap opera trick of contriving situations that don't make any logical sense. The characters of Ashton and Bent go from being just slightly unhinged in Books One and Two to being boo-hiss soap opera 'villains' in Book Three. It's all just a bit of a... disappointing conclusion, really. But the biggest loss is that Swayze obviously couldn't be persuaded to come back.

But on the whole, I think the show arguably holds up even better today. In some ways it's got shades of a modern HBO series, something like Game of Thrones (I've seen North & South refered to as "soap with a budget"). I could easily see North & South being remade and given a gritty modern treatment (not that the original wasn't plenty gritty enough when it wants to be! )

What are your views of this series?

 

[auntiehill]

I remember watching these in high school, when it first came out. Of course, Swayze and Read were quite crush-worthy and, since I was studying the Civil War in school at the time, it was interesting to see them attempt to cover various issues and events. However, even back then I was aware it was the PC "network" version of history---a sort of "Dynasty Does History," if you will. I didn't take it very seriously. It was really just a romance novel with a framework of the Civil War.

 

[Amaris]

I remember enjoying them immensely, as a child. The acting was believable, the drama felt real, and the focus on the pain and suffering felt on both sides overshadowed everything. Still, the real winner was Bill Conti's masterful soundtrack (which I own):

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14oYFlR5CMg[/yt]

 

[urbandefault]

I watched Book One in its original run and enjoyed it. Book Two, not as much. I had no idea they made a Book Three.

The only part I really disliked was "crazy" Kirstie Alley, and the evil West Point dude with the horrible "southern" accent. For me, it was hard to watch. "Unrewarding," as Orson Welles once said.

 

[Claudia]

Loved book 1, liked book 2 and despised book 3.

Swayze and Read were absolutely crush-worthy back in that series, and I think I drove my family up the wall with my mooning over them. *g*

I tend to delete book 3 - because it simply doesn't fit in with the established series-canon. Orry suddenly has an older brother (he does in the novels - but not in the first 2 TV-seasons)? Orry's simply killed off (instead of, like in the books, dying during the war)? It's kind of like the missing years in Thorn Birds, an attempt to milk the cash cow just a bit further, and perhaps revitalize some stumbling careers.

And I agree on the soundtrack - love it... and I, too, own the soundtrack on vinyl. *lol*

 

[od0_ital]

My mother was a fan of the miniseries back when they first came out. We watched 'em then, and I agree, the first two are good, the third sucks.

I've read the John Jakes books, and they're soap opera worthy, too.

I haven't watched 'em in years & years, but bought my sister the DVD for Christmas a couple of years ago.

Well worth watchin', if ya haven't seen 'em yet, though only the first two "books."

 

[Lance]

I had wondered if Book Three was conceived as some kind of cheap cash-in. It was made a whole seven years after the first two, Bill Conti was not re-employed, and as discussed there were numerous other cast and crew changes. Things seem on the whole a lot cheaper, and there were less episodes. I even noticed that some of the character arcs that were being built up in Books 1 & 2 seemed to get abandoned for Book 3.

A question for those who've read them: how closely does Book Three stay true to events in the John Jakes novels?

 

[Claudia]

As far as I remember (that being that I read the books 20 years ago, and saw book 3 on TV just once when it aired - so take it with a grain of salt *g*), the events depicted in the TV-rendition of book 3 come pretty close to those of the novel.

That said - the problem was that the first 2 TV-versions take quite a few liberties, such as never mentioning that Orry had an older brother or letting Orry survive the civil war. And they had to sort of retcon all those events just for the TV-version of book 3 (such as killing off Orry sort of off-screen right at the start etc.).

 

[Lance]

As far as I remember (that being that I read the books 20 years ago, and saw book 3 on TV just once when it aired - so take it with a grain of salt *g*), the events depicted in the TV-rendition of book 3 come pretty close to those of the novel.

That said - the problem was that the first 2 TV-versions take quite a few liberties, such as never mentioning that Orry had an older brother or letting Orry survive the civil war. And they had to sort of retcon all those events just for the TV-version of book 3 (such as killing off Orry sort of off-screen right at the start etc.).

See, I mentioned earlier about how Book 3 seems to jettison a few of the storylines from the first two (TV) books. Funny thing about Orry's brother is that the TV shows had already set up a credible alternative: the slavedriver who came back to Mont Royal and then made a threat that they'd all be sorry they didn't re-employ him. Maybe Book 3 could've had him come in and be putting pressure on them to sell up, instead of just introducing this new Maine brother out of nowhere. Not to mention Bent doing what he did to Orry contradicted a moment in Book 2 where he said he didn't want Orry dead, because he had a much worse fate in store for him... but suddenly in Book 3 he's like, "No, I'm gonna kill you after all"?

I guess that's probably why the TV version of Book 3 doesn't feel very rewarding. Apart from being made so long after the first two instalments, as you say it just doesn't feel credibly like a continuation of them either. There's too many contradictions. You're probably right that it's better off left out of the 'canon', for want of a better word.

 

[USS Pertinax]

I've been watching these for the first time after being recommended them by someone who said it would "really be your thing". I've watched all of Books One and Two so far, and as expected really tended to enjoy them. But Book Three is mostly terrible, all the worst kinds of jumping the shark.

Some great moments in the first two 'books', and an all-star cast: Patrick Swayze and James Reade are both terrific and have a believable screen chemstry together (although Swayze's very 80s hairstyle stretched credibility at times, lol ), and there are some awesome bit parts for the likes of Johnny Cash and Robert Mitchum. And of course, we have Commander Riker and Lieutenant Saavik sharing a lot of screen-time together. David Carradine is also really believable as an evil S-O-B, maybe too believable.

(Incidentally, it's really weird seeing Frakes as Stanley Hazard in Books One and Two, which were both filmed before he even played Commander Riker for the first time, but his part in Book Three, shot in 1994, is pretty obviously a 'post-Riker' part, and not just because he's sporting the trademark beard by then either, heh. )

I think my favorite thing of all, particularly being a non-American and somebody for whom the US civil war isn't therefore a part of my history, is the way that the series really does show the heartbreak of the conflict. The strengh of the series was clearly in its characters, and (at least in Books One and Two) they're all believable people, and as a viewer I found myself really empathizing for the way their friendships get broken apart simply because they were unfortunate enough to be on opposite sides of a border.

Book Three really did see a rapid decline though. Not just because certain stars were no longer in it, but also because it did that soap opera trick of contriving situations that don't make any logical sense. The characters of Ashton and Bent go from being just slightly unhinged in Books One and Two to being boo-hiss soap opera 'villains' in Book Three. It's all just a bit of a... disappointing conclusion, really. But the biggest loss is that Swayze obviously couldn't be persuaded to come back.

But on the whole, I think the show arguably holds up even better today. In some ways it's got shades of a modern HBO series, something like Game of Thrones (I've seen North & South refered to as "soap with a budget"). I could easily see North & South being remade and given a gritty modern treatment (not that the original wasn't plenty gritty enough when it wants to be! )

What are your views of this series?

I think my favorite thing of all, particularly being a non-American and somebody for whom the US civil war isn't therefore a part of my history, is the way that the series really does show the heartbreak of the conflict.

I don't think there are many upbeat Civil War stories.