Is Troi nobility?

[Orphalesion]

When watching TNG episodes centered around Troi and/or Lwaxana one of the things that pain me is how little we actually ever learn of Betazed. They often have Lwaxana rattle down her exotic string of titles "Daughter of the Fifth House, Holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx and Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed"
However not only do we have zero idea what those titles mean (is the Fifth House a dynasty, something akin to the Second French Empire or a noble family in a sort of council? Why is Lwaxana a daughter and not a lady or a matron of this house? Is Rixx a person or a place? Are the Holy Rings jewellery or some sort of larger, ring shaped artifact? We never learn!)

And yet another thing we never learn is what those titles say about Lwaxana's status in Betazoid society as well as what this makes Deanna. If you look at countries today that still have nobility, even if it is solely ceremonial, it tends to be kind of a big thing and what it means to be of noble birth in Betazed society could have been used to flesh out Troi's character.

So what I'm basically saying; do you think that Lwaxana, and by extension Troi, were some sort of nobility? And if so what do you think this says about Troi? Is she a stereotypical "rebellious princess" who uses Starfleet as a means to escape protocol? Did she perhaps use her status to further her career?
Or is perhaps pretty much every Betazoid a daughter/son of some house and heir/holder/keeper of some trinket?

 

[Timo]

Basically the only thing we have to go by is the fact that Lwaxana has been appointed Ambassador for her culture. Whether with respect to all alien cultures, or just cultures outside the UFP, we don't know - sometimes it looks as if UFP member species send ambassadors to each other, sometimes it seems that Sarek is working just for the Federal government and his being "Vulcan Ambassador" merely identifies his species rather than his employer.

Is Sarek nobility? He once married a princess, so this is a distinct possibility. We never explicitly heard of a commoner Ambassador, really (as even Worf's status in that respect is uncertain - he's now of the commoner House of Martok, but his father Mogh might have left him with a noble inheritance he can still rely on).

This might be the practical definition of nobility in the Trek reality as regards the familiar species: you need to be born to the purplish in order to qualify for representing the species in the highest circles. Or, perhaps, when you do engage in a career of representation, you are given nobility status. And many species in Trek are conservative in all areas of life, including having the children inherit the profession of the parent. Perhaps Troi is also representing Betazed in some fashion that amounts to "training for future Ambassadorship", rather than rebellion?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

Troi was put into an arranged marriage that meant something. She is the daughter of a Starfleet officer as well as Lwaxana. Lwaxana has a loyal man servant and does things rather traditionally...kind of. When she's not in the phase. Or other mood.

Sarek is likely a nobel of some kind to warrent T'Pau for Spock's wedding and later to be heard in order to mend Spock's spirit from McCoy. Kirk comments on Spock's family must be pretty important for T'Pau to come out to personally officiate.

 

[Amaris]

I always understood Lwaxana's position in Betazed's government to be a Pretty Big Thing™. We often saw her representing Betazed in negotiations, formal treaties, and such. So whether or not she's way up in the food chain, we've seen that she has enough political/cultural heft to usually get what she wants.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

When watching TNG episodes centered around Troi and/or Lwaxana one of the things that pain me is how little we actually ever learn of Betazed. They often have Lwaxana rattle down her exotic string of titles "Daughter of the Fifth House, Holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx and Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed"
However not only do we have zero idea what those titles mean (is the Fifth House a dynasty, something akin to the Second French Empire or a noble family in a sort of council? Why is Lwaxana a daughter and not a lady or a matron of this house? Is Rixx a person or a place? Are the Holy Rings jewellery or some sort of larger, ring shaped artifact? We never learn!)

And yet another thing we never learn is what those titles say about Lwaxana's status in Betazoid society as well as what this makes Deanna. If you look at countries today that still have nobility, even if it is solely ceremonial, it tends to be kind of a big thing and what it means to be of noble birth in Betazed society could have been used to flesh out Troi's character.

So what I'm basically saying; do you think that Lwaxana, and by extension Troi, were some sort of nobility? And if so what do you think this says about Troi? Is she a stereotypical "rebellious princess" who uses Starfleet as a means to escape protocol? Did she perhaps use her status to further her career?
Or is perhaps pretty much every Betazoid a daughter/son of some house and heir/holder/keeper of some trinket?

Good questions. As you say, the string of titles sounds like nobility, but then again it's hard to say.

Why is Lwaxana a daughter and not a lady or a matron of this house?

Regarding this question, that title always reminded me of the Daughters of the American Revolution. If that's the idea, it would imply being descended from that historical and historic house, probably of nobles, which no longer stands as such. It might mean that Lwaxana would have a claim to nobility, were those customs still observed. Those things, the Sacred Chalice and Holy Rings, they sound like relics, which fits. So, maybe Betazeds still respect the cultural heritage and find it attractive, but no longer select their rulers based solely on bloodline (even if Lwaxana's heritage gave her an inside track on a career in politics)?

 

[MikeS]

I remember specific lines in the series where Deanna berates her mother for pronouncing herself "holder of the sacred chalice of Rixx". Deanna dismisses it as being "just a very old wooden pot". So we have some description of the relics. But the episodes name escapes me.

 

[Ithekro]

Isn't that the one Deanna find out she had a sister?

 

[Squiggy]

I always understood Lwaxana's position in Betazed's government to be a Pretty Big Thing™. We often saw her representing Betazed in negotiations, formal treaties, and such. So whether or not she's way up in the food chain, we've seen that she has enough political/cultural heft to usually get what she wants.

Well, she is the Federation Ambassador. Nobility or not that would get your into said representation.

 

[T'Girl]

Federation ambassador? My impression is that she was the Betazed ambassador.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always thought Lwaxana was exaggerating when she would rattle off that "Daughter of the Fifth House" crap. Just giving a lot of old, archaic titles that don't mean anything anymore.

 

[Orphalesion]

So what Sarek and (by extension) Spock were nobility as well? Huh interesting.

I like Timo's suggestion that Deanna's starfleet career is a part of her training as heir to whatever Lwaxana is.

And I also like CorporalCaptain's comparison with the Daughters of the American Revolution. I could see Lwaxana belong to a society like that, however I doubt that their members go around "I'm so and so, Daughter of the American Revolution!"

In "Angel One" Betazed was implied to be either a oligarchy, a matriarchy or both when Data explained that Angel One is a matriarchal oligarchy and Deanna giggled and said something to t effect "a bit like my planet!"
Though the less said about Angel One, the better...

 

[Squiggy]

Federation ambassador? My impression is that she was the Betazed ambassador.

Betazoid Ambassador to the Federation.

 

[Marsden]

Not to anger anyone, but isn't this just more evidence that Troi is TNG's appendix, she's there but it doesn't do anything.

It's really strange how over 7 seasons and 4 movies they really didn't bother with exploring Betazed. I wonder what the natives call their planet, I doubt it's BZ to them.

Actually, the TNG creators must have had a fascination with their keyboards, we have a planet BZ and a Q running around.

 

[Orphalesion]

That was part of my point, Marsden, they had this telepathic character and this new alien culture and heaps of possibilities and....somehow let all go to waste. A whole race of espers could have been hugely interesting to explore and could have provided worlds of backstory and motivation for Troi...but no, pretty much all we learned of Betazed was delivered as a joke (Lwaxana's titles, the naked weddings) or is a handful of one-off references and none of them really paint a picture of a society in which each individual is a telepath.

 

[Shawnster]

Federation ambassador? My impression is that she was the Betazed ambassador.

Betazoid Ambassador to the Federation.

Did we see her representing Betazed in negotiations with the Federation?

Did we see her representing Betazed when the Federation was negotiating with a third party?

Did we see her representing the Federation when negotiating with another party?

 

[T'Girl]

I wonder what the natives call their planet, I doubt it's BZ to them.

I never really thought that the name of their planet (and their people) was a play on "beta," but that Betazed was the actual name used.

And I think that Laxanna was the Betazed ambassador to where-ever her government sent her to represent them. If it was to the Federation okay, but that would not be the only place.

Yesteryear said that Federation Members exchange ambassadors between each other.

And the comic Countdown (non-canon) said that the Federation sends ambassadors to the Member planets.

 

[borgboy]

I always kind of took it for granted that Lwaxana and by extension Deanna were royalty of some sort. That's the impression I always got.

 

[Squiggy]

Federation ambassador? My impression is that she was the Betazed ambassador.

Betazoid Ambassador to the Federation.

Did we see her representing Betazed in negotiations with the Federation?

Did we see her representing Betazed when the Federation was negotiating with a third party?

Did we see her representing the Federation when negotiating with another party?

We never saw anyone do any of those things. That doesn't change the fact she was the Ambassador.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I don't doubt - at all - that Lwaxana Troi is from an "important" family, considering who the part was created for and to what end.

 

[Ithekro]

What was her function when Enterprise was heading to Pacifica? Aside from being on the hunt, she exposed the bomb plot in seconds once she was less hormonal.