Simple Question: Do You Like The Reboots?

[Makarov]

So 79 x 25 in the XI forum and 75 x 62 in the general discussion. I think it's safe to conclude that the results of the poll is skewed based on where it is posted.

 

[Vger23]

It's also safe to say that, in either place, more said "yes" than "no."

 

[lurok]

It's all Trek to me. So, yes.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

So 79 x 25 in the XI forum and 75 x 62 in the general discussion. I think it's safe to conclude that the results of the poll is skewed based on where it is posted.

So the people who dislike the reboot movies tend to avoid the forum where they're discussed. Shocking.

 

[Amaris]

So 79 x 25 in the XI forum and 75 x 62 in the general discussion. I think it's safe to conclude that the results of the poll is skewed based on where it is posted.

So the people who dislike the reboot movies tend to avoid the forum where they're discussed. Shocking.

Perhaps, but it still doesn't change that in the general Trek forum, there is a significant number of people who enjoy the new films.

 

[BigJake]

So 79 x 25 in the XI forum and 75 x 62 in the general discussion. I think it's safe to conclude that the results of the poll is skewed based on where it is posted.

Which really isn't a surprise. Very obviously the reboots will get a more lopsidedly favourable response in the fan forum dedicated to them, just like any other version of Trek will obviously be most favoured in the forum dedicated to it. It's a bit curious that anyone felt the need to "test" that.

 

[Amaris]

So 79 x 25 in the XI forum and 75 x 62 in the general discussion. I think it's safe to conclude that the results of the poll is skewed based on where it is posted.

Which really isn't a surprise. Very obviously the reboots will get a more lopsidedly favourable response in the fan forum dedicated to them, just like any other version of Trek will obviously be most favoured in the forum dedicated to it. It's a bit curious that anyone felt the need to "test" that.

I don't mind it. It shows that a significant portion of the people who regularly visit these fora like the films (either one or both). That's not to say it shuts down arguments about the quality of the films on a case by case basis (it's a subjective POV), but hopefully it will shut down the arguments that Trek fans didn't like the films, and that only "real" Trek fans hated the films, and before you say anything, I have seen that argument float around here as a popular one.

I just think it's so absurd, the conniption fits that take place over the films. Yeah, we're nerds, we're Trek fans, but I see people arguing themselves into a rage about the notion that J.J. wanted to sabotage Star Trek, or that he didn't care about the films, or that no Trek fan liked the films, or that only "true" Trek fans disliked the films. It's just all whiny bullshit that has no support whatsoever.

Dislike the film, hate the film, burn it in effigy, but that's as far as it gets in terms of the effect it has on the quality and popularity of the film itself. The films exist, they will continue to exist, and they are now a part of the Trek "canon". Moreso, there are now Trek fans who started out on these films, and that makes them no less Trek fans than the ones who started out in 1966.

Yeah, you didn't argue any of this, but seeing the arguments throughout the various Trek fora, well, this whole line of denialism and stubbornness, it takes away from the board. I think it degrades the community.

Again, just to be clear, it's one thing to dislike the films, that's perfectly alright. No film is perfect, these included. It isn't, however, okay to shout people down who do like the films, and it isn't okay to make up shit in order to take away from the legitimacy of the films, and when one is called on that, it is justified.

In short, people are free to make up shit as excuses for not liking the films, but they will be called on it, because the movies did make a lot of money (I can already hear the gnashing of teeth), they did knock it out of the park, critically speaking, there are new fans that have emerged from these films, and there will be more who stand alongside the original fans from the 1960s. Nothing, NOTHING, will change that. No amount of bitter tears, no stomping of feet, no outright denial of reality, no boycotts, no pretend being dragged into the theater by "friends", no protest signatures, NOTHING will change that.

 

[BigJake]

So I was reading TVTropes today, and I quite like the Suspiciously Specific Denial entry*.

A propos of nothing in particular. Smooches!

(* I jest, just to be clear. I'm well aware of the motives underlying the original poll on the original forum, I'm not looking to revisit all that.)

 

[SPCTRE]

You guys can argue all you want, in the end it's all irrelevant. I mean, you're not even true fans.

 

[Kemaiku]

You guys can argue all you want, in the end it's all irrelevant. I mean, you're not even true fans.

But I went through that initiation ceremony and everything. Why did you dunk all that stuff over me if it wasn't...you bastards!

 

[Amaris]

You guys can argue all you want, in the end it's all irrelevant. I mean, you're not even true fans.

Then why did I give you my wallet?

 

[BK613]

Interesting; the last time I was here, yes had a 21 point lead. Now it is down to 10.4. Has it been trending this way all week?

 

[Makarov]

I like the reboots but I don't mind hearing people's criticism of it. I feel like they get lumped into a category with the people who have the most extreme viewpoints against the new films.

For instance the return to Prime discussion gets a lot of suggestions that Prime fans means being obsessed with minutea. Sometimes there's a picture painted here that liking the new movies means being hip and flexible while prime fans are goggle wearing nerds speaking Klingon at prom, with no middle ground.

If someone feels it's not "true Trek" to themselves I really don't mind that opinion unless they're forcing it on people who enjoy the movie. Personally I feel Max Payne 3 is not true Max Payne. Terminator salvation and T3 aren't true Terminator movies.. etc. So I'm not going to mock someone for thinking that about Star Trek.

 

[EnsignRedshirt]

I need an option for "Kinda."

 

[WHF]

Again, just to be clear, it's one thing to dislike the films, that's perfectly alright. No film is perfect, these included. It isn't, however, okay to shout people down who do like the films, and it isn't okay to make up shit in order to take away from the legitimacy of the films, and when one is called on that, it is justified.

In short, people are free to make up shit as excuses for not liking the films, but they will be called on it, because the movies did make a lot of money (I can already hear the gnashing of teeth), they did knock it out of the park, critically speaking, there are new fans that have emerged from these films, and there will be more who stand alongside the original fans from the 1960s. Nothing, NOTHING, will change that. No amount of bitter tears, no stomping of feet, no outright denial of reality, no boycotts, no pretend being dragged into the theater by "friends", no protest signatures, NOTHING will change that.

Yeah, only the people who hate the films are irrational. What a pretentious post.

Spoiler: How I was going to respond

Again, just to be clear, it's one thing to like the films, that's perfectly alright. Most films have something good in them, these included. It isn't, however, okay to shout people down who don't like the films, and it isn't okay to make up shit in order to take away from the legitimacy of not liking the films, and when one is called on that, it is justified.

In short, people are free to make up shit as excuses for peolple not liking the films, but they will be called on it, because even though the movies made a lot of money, the amount of money a film makes (I can already hear the gnashing of teeth), doesn't equate to quality, there are fans that dislike these films. Nothing, NOTHING, will change that. No amount of bitter tears, no stomping of feet, no outright denial of reality, no ganging up on posters, no pretending that a poster has ulterior motives or is crazy for not liking the new films, NOTHING will change that.

I think they're mediocre films. There are parts in both films that I like. Karl Urban is fantastic, Greenwood great, Zoe Saldana and Zach Quinto are quite good, action sequences are fun - even if stupid (except I really dislike the jumping from the Corvette scene), special effects top-notch. I liked the role reversal of Kirk sacrificing his life to save the ship. My biggest problem with the films is that Kirk is unlikable (I believe this is more down to writing, directorial and editing choices than Pine's performance) although I find him slightly more likeable in the second film. If the scene that explained why he was wrecking the Corvette was left in I would have had a more positive feeling toward Kirk. Since this is a matter of personal taste I do understand why people can like these films.

Just to compare another big budget special effects film: I really liked Guardians of the Galaxy but if I didn't like the characters, especially Quill, then I would feel the same way about GotG even though there were other good things in that film. I need to like something in the main character.

I also think I understand why some posters are so vocal in their dislike these films. I think they think that people liking a mediocre film will prevent a better quality film from getting made. The fact is that Star Trek can only be made for the theatre in films like this. Budgets are too high to make Star Trek in anything other than a big budget blockbuster. I would love to see a Jarmusch directed Star Trek film but that can't happen, the money spent on special effects would never be recouped.

Even though I was disappointed in these films I look forward to liking the next one.

 

[Amaris]

Again, just to be clear, it's one thing to dislike the films, that's perfectly alright. No film is perfect, these included. It isn't, however, okay to shout people down who do like the films, and it isn't okay to make up shit in order to take away from the legitimacy of the films, and when one is called on that, it is justified.

In short, people are free to make up shit as excuses for not liking the films, but they will be called on it, because the movies did make a lot of money (I can already hear the gnashing of teeth), they did knock it out of the park, critically speaking, there are new fans that have emerged from these films, and there will be more who stand alongside the original fans from the 1960s. Nothing, NOTHING, will change that. No amount of bitter tears, no stomping of feet, no outright denial of reality, no boycotts, no pretend being dragged into the theater by "friends", no protest signatures, NOTHING will change that.

Yeah, only the people who hate the films are irrational. What a pretentious post.

Except I didn't say that. Anywhere. I even go out of my way to explain that I don't think merely disliking the film is wrong. I took great pains to make sure the playing field was balanced, that I was only referring to people who hate the films and want to make it seem like those who like the movies are not "real" Trek fans.

Spoiler: How I was going to respond

Again, just to be clear, it's one thing to like the films, that's perfectly alright. Most films have something good in them, these included. It isn't, however, okay to shout people down who don't like the films, and it isn't okay to make up shit in order to take away from the legitimacy of not liking the films, and when one is called on that, it is justified.

In short, people are free to make up shit as excuses for peolple not liking the films, but they will be called on it, because even though the movies made a lot of money, the amount of money a film makes (I can already hear the gnashing of teeth), doesn't equate to quality, there are fans that dislike these films. Nothing, NOTHING, will change that. No amount of bitter tears, no stomping of feet, no outright denial of reality, no ganging up on posters, no pretending that a poster has ulterior motives or is crazy for not liking the new films, NOTHING will change that.

I think they're mediocre films. There are parts in both films that I like. Karl Urban is fantastic, Greenwood great, Zoe Saldana and Zach Quinto are quite good, action sequences are fun - even if stupid (except I really dislike the jumping from the Corvette scene), special effects top-notch. I liked the role reversal of Kirk sacrificing his life to save the ship. My biggest problem with the films is that Kirk is unlikable (I believe this is more down to writing, directorial and editing choices than Pine's performance) although I find him slightly more likeable in the second film. If the scene that explained why he was wrecking the Corvette was left in I would have had a more positive feeling toward Kirk. Since this is a matter of personal taste I do understand why people can like these films.

Just to compare another big budget special effects film: I really liked Guardians of the Galaxy but if I didn't like the characters, especially Quill, then I would feel the same way about GotG even though there were other good things in that film. I need to like something in the main character.

I also think I understand why some posters are so vocal in their dislike these films. I think they think that people liking a mediocre film will prevent a better quality film from getting made. The fact is that Star Trek can only be made for the theatre in films like this. Budgets are too high to make Star Trek in anything other than a big budget blockbuster. I would love to see a Jarmusch directed Star Trek film but that can't happen, the money spent on special effects would never be recouped.

Even though I was disappointed in these films I look forward to liking the next one.[/QUOTE]

That's perfectly fine.

 

[martok2112]

I like the reboots but I don't mind hearing people's criticism of it. I feel like they get lumped into a category with the people who have the most extreme viewpoints against the new films.

For instance the return to Prime discussion gets a lot of suggestions that Prime fans means being obsessed with minutea. Sometimes there's a picture painted here that liking the new movies means being hip and flexible while prime fans are goggle wearing nerds speaking Klingon at prom, with no middle ground.

If someone feels it's not "true Trek" to themselves I really don't mind that opinion unless they're forcing it on people who enjoy the movie. Personally I feel Max Payne 3 is not true Max Payne. Terminator salvation and T3 aren't true Terminator movies.. etc. So I'm not going to mock someone for thinking that about Star Trek.

Precisely.
As long as folk remember that what they feel is not "True Trek" (or Terminator or Alien or Max Payne or what ever) is merely opinion, and not try to dictate to everyone else that they are the only ones who are right about what is "True Trek", I can respect their stance for not liking the movies.

Try telling me that ST09 or STID is not True Trek as a matter of fact, and that I cannot possibly appreciate Star Trek (when I've watched and loved it for 40 years) and you'll get a face full of STFU!

 

[Greg Cox]

I like the reboots but I don't mind hearing people's criticism of it. I feel like they get lumped into a category with the people who have the most extreme viewpoints against the new films.

For instance the return to Prime discussion gets a lot of suggestions that Prime fans means being obsessed with minutea. Sometimes there's a picture painted here that liking the new movies means being hip and flexible while prime fans are goggle wearing nerds speaking Klingon at prom, with no middle ground.

If someone feels it's not "true Trek" to themselves I really don't mind that opinion unless they're forcing it on people who enjoy the movie. Personally I feel Max Payne 3 is not true Max Payne. Terminator salvation and T3 aren't true Terminator movies.. etc. So I'm not going to mock someone for thinking that about Star Trek.

Precisely.
As long as folk remember that what they feel is not "True Trek" (or Terminator or Alien or Max Payne or what ever) is merely opinion, and not try to dictate to everyone else that they are the only ones who are right about what is "True Trek", I can respect their stance for not liking the movies.

Try telling me that ST09 or STID is not True Trek as a matter of fact, and that I cannot possibly appreciate Star Trek (when I've watched and loved it for 40 years) and you'll get a face full of STFU!

Exactly. And as long as nobody claims to be speaking for all fans whens they expresses their own issues with the new movies.

If you don't like the reboot . . . fine. But don't insist, in stubborn defiance of reality, that that "fans" or, worse yet, "the true fans" are universally united against the new movies.

That always provokes a "speak for yourself!" response from me.

And let it be noted that is by no means just a Trekkie thing. I've had the same conversations regarding Superman, Dark Shadows, Planet of the Apes, etc.

Nobody gets to be the arbiter of what the "real" fans want or believe, or even what qualifies as a "fan."

 

[eyeresist]

Dark Shadows! I finally saw the movie recently and was surprised that it wasn't terrible, actually quite enjoyable. The big final fight was a let-down, though. (Never seen the series.)

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Yes, because the new movies capture what I remember fondly about watching Trek as a kid: the adventure, the color and the fun.