I can totally see that in my mind's eye. "Wide open collar", "grizzly beard" and "disco medallion" optional.
The disco medallion is mandatory!
Are you sure it was a disco medallion and not an IDIC?
Why would they have McCoy ask "Where's Sulu?" in TUC.
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Are you sure it was a disco medallion and not an IDIC?
I'd say it was Kirk's way of reminding McCoy that Sulu has other responsibilities now. I'm sure McCoy was aware of Sulu rank and posting.^ The only trouble is that Kirk makes a point of saying "Captain Sulu", with an emphasis on 'captain' as if Bones doesn't know about Sulu's promotion. Or maybe Bones does know, but has simply forgotten. Old age does that to a person.
Given that Sulu's log entry at the start seems to indicate that Excelsior was on its way home after a three year mission, I would assume McCoy might have known that, so expected Sulu to be back by the time this meeting was called (the novel has the meeting take place a few months after Praxis explodedm to give time for travel and meetings to happen between the Klingons and Spock before Kirk's mission to escort Gorkon to a Peace Conference). Kirk's reminder of Sulu's rank is just a to push along the idea that Sulu and Excelsior are doing their own thing. But this also shows that Sulu has not come back to Earth yet.
For a few years, I thought the crew was still together at the start of the movie (minus Sulu, of course), but having them separated and then reunited for this one last adventure gave me a whole new perspective on the movie's premise itself.
Funny how one line can do that.
I would've loved for some sort of rundown via dialogue at the beginning as to what Chekov and Uhura were doing to account for the crew's separation. But then the sillier part of my imagination would trade the signatures in the credits for some text about each crewmember's "Where are they now?" fate several years later as bookends, a la Animal House, like:
Lt. Valeris:
KILLED IN CARDASSIAN WAR BY OWN TROOPS
And...
SENATOR AND MRS. PAVEL CHEKOV
If McCoy really followed the adventures of his former crewmates in detail, what he would know is that the Excelsior should be back in port by now. After all, it's two months since her three-year mission ended!
(And no, Sulu wasn't going home at impulse.
At the beginning of the movie, he was preparing to start the trip home, as the mission was only just ending, with concluding remarks from the science officer. So it shouldn't take two months!)Timo Saloniemi
Which was obvious when the movie made its premiere. I never questioned McCoy's line, as it common for dialogue to give voice to something assumed to be a possible question or concern to audiences.
If McCoy really followed the adventures of his former crewmates in detail, what he would know is that the Excelsior should be back in port by now. After all, it's two months since her three-year mission ended!
(And no, Sulu wasn't going home at impulse.
Timo Saloniemi
In the film, Spock states quite clearly that it has been one month since the explosion of Praxis. Posted scripts are either earlier drafts, or fan transcripts from watching the film.
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I'd say it was Kirk's way of reminding McCoy that Sulu has other responsibilities now. I'm sure McCoy was aware of Sulu rank and posting.^ The only trouble is that Kirk makes a point of saying "Captain Sulu", with an emphasis on 'captain' as if Bones doesn't know about Sulu's promotion. Or maybe Bones does know, but has simply forgotten. Old age does that to a person.
That's how I interpreted it.
McCoy looks around, notices that the old gang is here, except for Sulu, who is conspicuously missing.
Kirk reminds McCoy that Sulu's new job means that he has new duties to occupy him.
To use a weird analogy, you and your friends are at a party, and Sue notices that Bob isn't around, like he always used to be. At which point you remind Sue that Bob has a kid these days so he doesn't party as much as he used to.
Now, of course, Sue knew Bob had a kid. She's just used to Bob being part of the scene and hadn't quite processed that he's got other things going on in his life these days.
When Kirk stresses "Captain Sulu" what he's really saying is "Captain Sulu, remember?"
As in: "Don't forget, Bob has a kid now."
The disco medallion is mandatory!
They should've carried over as a standard accessory on the 'monster maroons'. It would've fit in quite well with those belt buckles, I think.
with the maroon uniforms they could have worn the starfleet insignia as a necklace like Khan did
From the trial scene:
Sounds like he's been continuously appointed... unless it's some kind of academic tenure deal, where he holds the title but is not required to be physically present.
My one question is: why wasn't Excelsior chosen to escort the Klingons? It's the Federation's most advanced ship, commanded by someone who's been around the block almost as much as Kirk. Why do we need the other elderly (and retiring) crew? Does that make or break a diplomatic mission?
"They'll think twice about attacking the Enterprise under your command." How about "They'll think twice about attacking a ship [Excelsior] that will flush them down the galactic toilet before they even know what hit them."
Peace mission. They send out the one the Klingons have the most respect/fear of, in their most recognizable starship, Enterprise. Enterprise has been a name to the Klingons for almost a century and a half by this point (counting Archer's ship), and it has been there to embarrass them or defeat them. Kirk has defeated many of their best warriors...usually with underhanded methods.
Excelsior is the biggest and probably most powerful ship in Starfleet. But it isn't as symbolic for the peace process. If the Federation had defeated the Klingons and were bringing them to Earth to sign an unconditional surrender, then you use Excelsior to rub it in. For a Peace process, you send Enterprise.
Excelsior is the biggest and probably most powerful ship in Starfleet. But it isn't as symbolic for the peace process. If the Federation had defeated the Klingons and were bringing them to Earth to sign an unconditional surrender, then you use Excelsior to rub it in. For a Peace process, you send Enterprise.
Lots of nodding.
Umm, what? Nimoy's voice isn't particularly unclear there. It's both "two" and "monthS" with a heavy S for the plural.
The transcripts from the oft-quoted chakoteya.net site seem highly accurate, and on this one, the text is an exact match of the dialogue.
Which we know isn't true. McCoy is deliberately abusing language to create the impression that his experience is "greater" than it is - he leaves out the fact that he has been off the various Enterprises previously, such as between TOS and TMP and supposedly also TMP and ST2. Yes, it's been 27 years since we first saw him aboard, in "The Corbomite Maneuver" around 2266 by modern reckoning. But the audience (the Klingon one) needs to be told the simplest possible story for rhetoric purposes, and McCoy tells it, omitting his absences (because those do not diminish his expertise).
It's the same as with the "first Enterprise in thirty years without Kirk in command" thing in ST:GEN. Kirk wasn't in command of Enterprises for thirty years, but the rhetoric makes a specific impression without really being counterfactual.
Timo Saloniemi
Umm, what? Nimoy's voice isn't particularly unclear there. It's both "two" and "monthS" with a heavy S for the plural.
The transcripts from the oft-quoted chakoteya.net site seem highly accurate, and on this one, the text is an exact match of the dialogue.
Which we know isn't true. McCoy is deliberately abusing language to create the impression that his experience is "greater" than it is - he leaves out the fact that he has been off the various Enterprises previously, such as between TOS and TMP and supposedly also TMP and ST2. Yes, it's been 27 years since we first saw him aboard, in "The Corbomite Maneuver" around 2266 by modern reckoning. But the audience (the Klingon one) needs to be told the simplest possible story for rhetoric purposes, and McCoy tells it, omitting his absences (because those do not diminish his expertise).
It's the same as with the "first Enterprise in thirty years without Kirk in command" thing in ST:GEN. Kirk wasn't in command of Enterprises for thirty years, but the rhetoric makes a specific impression without really being counterfactual.
Timo Saloniemi
They're getting the band back together - it's only natural for McCoy to say "Where's Sulu?"
Good point. It could be Kirk is reminding McCoy that not everyone has entered semi-retirement - some might have business elsewhere.
EDIT: I see my points have already been made
That might be part of it. I think the real reason is that Spock is hoping Kirk will come around and be an essential part of the peace process.
Good point. It could be Kirk is reminding McCoy that not everyone has entered semi-retirement - some might have business elsewhere.
EDIT: I see my points have already been made
That might be part of it. I think the real reason is that Spock is hoping Kirk will come around and be an essential part of the peace process.
Pretty sure he states two months.
...That was covered rather extensively back when VOY "Flashback" had Tuvok claim it was just a couple of days.
But it was just the weird space disease inside Tuvok talking, and the "real" time interval was always heard as two months by all the people participating in those arguments.
One wonders... Perhaps Sulu's famed assignment here was one that involved elements seen in the feverish "Flashback" ramblings, after Praxis but long before Kirk and McCoy actually were sent to Rura Penthe.
Or then things did happen much as described in "Flashback", only two months later than Tuvok indicates. But the established feature of the disease was that it inserted unreal death into a "past event" it manufactured from real memories of real events. So much of the conflict in Tuvok's story may be fictional, even if Sulu did grandstand against Kang and all.
Timo Saloniemi
But it was just the weird space disease inside Tuvok talking, and the "real" time interval was always heard as two months by all the people participating in those arguments.
One wonders... Perhaps Sulu's famed assignment here was one that involved elements seen in the feverish "Flashback" ramblings, after Praxis but long before Kirk and McCoy actually were sent to Rura Penthe.
Or then things did happen much as described in "Flashback", only two months later than Tuvok indicates. But the established feature of the disease was that it inserted unreal death into a "past event" it manufactured from real memories of real events. So much of the conflict in Tuvok's story may be fictional, even if Sulu did grandstand against Kang and all.
Timo Saloniemi
Only Nixon could go to China.
I'd say it was Kirk's way of reminding McCoy that Sulu has other responsibilities now. I'm sure McCoy was aware of Sulu rank and posting.^ The only trouble is that Kirk makes a point of saying "Captain Sulu", with an emphasis on 'captain' as if Bones doesn't know about Sulu's promotion. Or maybe Bones does know, but has simply forgotten. Old age does that to a person.
That's how I interpreted it.
McCoy looks around, notices that the old gang is here, except for Sulu, who is conspicuously missing.
Kirk reminds McCoy that Sulu's new job means that he has new duties to occupy him.
To use a weird analogy, you and your friends are at a party, and Sue notices that Bob isn't around, like he always used to be. At which point you remind Sue that Bob has a kid these days so he doesn't party as much as he used to.
Now, of course, Sue knew Bob had a kid. She's just used to Bob being part of the scene and hadn't quite processed that he's got other things going on in his life these days.
When Kirk stresses "Captain Sulu" what he's really saying is "Captain Sulu, remember?"
As in: "Don't forget, Bob has a kid now."
As someone with a pretty close social circle, I definitely understand this sentiment. We have a close core group of friends, so when one of them is absent, it is definitely noticeable, and the question of "Where is Bob?" will certainly come up.
It's actually one of the things I love about the TOS films; even though the stories bring these characters together for their crazy adventures, they make an effort to acknowledge that people move on with their lives. From Chekov leaving Enterprise to work on Reliant, to Spock becoming an instructor in TWOK, to Sulu becoming Captain of the Excelsior...it shows that these people are willing to accept new roles.
To me this is pointless whether or not McCoy thought Excelsior was back or not. It was clear from the people assembled that they wanted the senior staff of the ENTERPRISE at the meeting. Sulu was no longer a member of the Enterprise, he was now captain of the Excelsior and had been for three years.
Did McCoy think they were summoning the staff of the Enterprise and were just going to invite Sulu as well for old times sake? It made sense to wonder where Spock was because I assume he was still attached to the ship, but Sulu was LONG gone and there was no reason to think he'd be at a meeting for the senior staff of his former ship.
That'd be like if, three years after Wayne Gretzky was traded to the LA Kings, the Edmonton Oilers met for training camp for the first time and someone goes "Where Gretzky?" Uh.....this camp is for CURRENT members of the team, not for current members and the team's best ever player who has been gone for three years.
I know it was thrown in to make it seem like "The gang was back together" but really the command staff of the Enterprise all there, Sulu a captain for 3 years and someone wonders why he's not included in this meeting specifically for active members of the ENTERPRISE......let's use a little common sense here.
Maybe he thought it was a retirement party and thought it odd that Sulu wasn't there after all the time they worked together?
Could be. But it just doesn't seem like Starfleet command's style to summon a crew together at it's HQ with many top brass present just to say "surprise " and blow silly streamers and eat cake while wearing cone shaped hats. They just don't strike me as that kind of fun bunch. Could be wrong though. Maybe Starfleet command likes a good party as much as the next person.
