"Star Trek Generations" without Kirk

[JonnyQuest037]

You know, GEN has a ton of problems, but the Data subplot was not one of them IMO. It was one of the few threads in the script that worked.

I severely disagree with this. It instantly altered the character beyond recognition, and only added unfunny antics that had nothing to do with the main story. It also irked me that the filmmakers actually expected us to get more choked up over Data finding his damn cat than about Captain Kirk dying at the end.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

You know, GEN has a ton of problems, but the Data subplot was not one of them IMO. It was one of the few threads in the script that worked.

I severely disagree with this. It instantly altered the character beyond recognition, and only added unfunny antics that had nothing to do with the main story. It also irked me that the filmmakers actually expected us to get more choked up over Data finding his damn cat than about Captain Kirk dying at the end.

QFT.

The emotion chip plotline had nothing to do at all with the Picard-Soran-Nexus stuff. It was the textbook definition of a superfluous B-plot. Excise it and the film doesn't change.

 

[EnriqueH]

You know, GEN has a ton of problems, but the Data subplot was not one of them IMO. It was one of the few threads in the script that worked.

I severely disagree with this. It instantly altered the character beyond recognition, and only added unfunny antics that had nothing to do with the main story. It also irked me that the filmmakers actually expected us to get more choked up over Data finding his damn cat than about Captain Kirk dying at the end.

You know, GEN has a ton of problems, but the Data subplot was not one of them IMO. It was one of the few threads in the script that worked.

I severely disagree with this. It instantly altered the character beyond recognition, and only added unfunny antics that had nothing to do with the main story. It also irked me that the filmmakers actually expected us to get more choked up over Data finding his damn cat than about Captain Kirk dying at the end.

QFT.

The emotion chip plotline had nothing to do at all with the Picard-Soran-Nexus stuff. It was the textbook definition of a superfluous B-plot. Excise it and the film doesn't change.

I actually don't disagree with you guys.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you copy and paste that Data subplot into another episode, it works fine. It's funny and entertaining and it raises some interesting challenges for the character (though the chip itself is an arbitrary contrivance).

But you're right about one thing and it's something I had forgotten: Kirk's death is a milestone in Trek lore and it seems sidelined by Data finding Spot.

The fact that Kirk is also buried underneath a pile of rocks feels less like a tribute than Berman and company throwing TOS away into the ashheap of franchise history and getting it out of the way.

 

[Jeyl]

Few things.

With the exception of the opening with the Enterprise B, I never saw Kirk as "The Kirk" when Picard meets him. Out in the mountains, talking about how much he didn't want to join star fleet, had a girlfriend, lives horseback riding ect. This isn't Kirk. This feels like William Shatner writing himself into Kirk. It just feels so disingenuous that this is what Kirk's entire life has lead to.

As for the passing of the torch? Here's the thing. The Torch was already passed in "Encounter at Farpoint" when they had a TOS character interacting with a new TNG character. That was far more appropriate because TNG was literally just beginning and TOS had only two movies left by this time. Having Generations bra Passing of the Torch movie is really misleading because TNG bad just finished! These aren't characters who are supposed to have their turn to show how much they're worth. They've already done that!

Now you're probably thinking "Jeyl, it was the passing the 'movie' torch'!", to which I would reply that it was a pretty terrible one. You open with Kirk saving the day in the first 15 minutes and we spend the next hour watching Picard and crew being completely ineffective in their duty that the only thing they accomplish is getting themselves destroyed. This is not two legends coming together and doing some awesome Star Trek thing. This is an incompetent captain asking a better Captain to help punch an old guy. This is how you end one of sconce fictions greatest icons by having him fist fight an old guy.

Generations plays out like a movie you wish you could ignore, but can't because of how much stuff it changes. At least Star Trek V is an incredibly easy film to skip over.

 

[Dukhat]

^Pretty much agreed, especially this: "This feels like William Shatner writing himself into Kirk."

The irony here is that this "passing of the torch" allowed Patrick Stewart to do essentially the same thing in Nemesis, with his jeep riding scene, analogous to Shatner's horseback scene. Jean-Luc Picard would never in a million years be driving recklessly around in a jeep, but you know who would? Patrick Stewart.

 

[JarodRussell]

Still think they should have done the story with the villain aging backwards. In the first half, Kirk, Spock & Co encounter the bad guy at very old age, but they fail to apprehend him. In the second half, nearly a century later, Picard, Data & Co again meet the bad guy, but this time at young age, and they need to rely on the knowledge gathered by Kirk/Spock to deal with him.

 

[Dukhat]

^How does the villain aging backwards have to do with anything?

The emotion chip plotline had nothing to do at all with the Picard-Soran-Nexus stuff. It was the textbook definition of a superfluous B-plot. Excise it and the film doesn't change.

The only reason it existed plot-wise was so that Data could be incapacitated to allow Soran to kidnap Geordi. And that could have been done without the chip malfunctioning.

 

[JarodRussell]

^How does the villain aging backwards have to do with anything?

Mystery!

Yes, reactiongifs.com allows hotlinking.

 

[Dukhat]

Mystery!

Quite correct. I'd have been leaving the theater constantly scratching my head, wondering why on Earth Soran aged backwards when it had nothing to do with the plot. Mystery, indeed.