"Mind your Captain's chair, Mr. Sulu"

[Blip]

I quite liked that little table getup he'd got going. Between that and his command style (which I had no problem with, personally) I felt Sulu and the Excelsior were an early precursor to Picard and the Ent-D. If only the Excelsior herself didn't so much resemble a pregnant guppy.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

And it's mainly his own words that seem to back this up, not Shatner looking to badmouth him. I only wish that Meyer, Shatner, Bennett or Nimoy would give their version of the story to compare but as far as I've been able to tell none of them have ever gone public with what the deal was.

Shatner does mention it briefly here, at 2:25 into the video.

Thank you very much for posting that, I'd never seen it before. I thought it was very interesting and I think it reinforces things I've believed about Take

Also despite his well publicized less attractive character traits, I think Shatner is right on the money with what he says.

First it reinforces my belief that becoming a captain of a starship was very personal to Takei, to the point where he almost seems to believe Starfleet is real and he's getting a real promotion to a real ship. Shatner is absolutely right by pointing out that even with Takei getting his own ship, the story is still going to center around the Enterprise and crew. It's not like if he'd gotten the Excelsior in TSFS they were suddenly going to split time between the two ships evenly. I think Shatner was just telling Takei he might actually become less important and get less screen time if he leaves the enterprise.

Didn't matter to Takei though he wanted to be captain damnit and he's convinced Shatner scuttled it from being put into TWOK and he is pissed he had to wait another decade to get his just reward. The ability to walk a different set giving fake orders to fake crew members while being their fake captain.

Shatner is also right that Takei has been mean to him for a long time. In his book Takei took many personal cheap shots at Shatner and has continued to do so since from
time to time over the last 25 years. I think Shatner has been remarkably restrained in his replies considering how hard Takei has come at him.

Also keep in mind, and this is big to me, at the end of Star Trek Memories after Nichols calls Shatner out for some of his actions that the other cast members resented. Shatner gave each one a chance to vent. Doohan refused to do it because he really had Shatner personally, for reasons far different than Takei's.

Takei was apparently ready to get it out but he and Shatner had such a great time that day that he decided to let it go. Shatner also is VERY kind to Takei saying he learned things about him he didn't know before and thought his story was remarkable with all he'd gone through and still made it in Hollywood.


So Shatner gave him his chance to let it fly, Takei apparently decided to drop it and move on. Until TUC is in the can, knowing his working relationship with Shatner is over, and then he unloads both barrels on Shatner in his book and other ways for decades.

I'm sorry but when someone comes to you hat in hand basically saying "I'm sorry, let me have it" and you act like all is forgiven and then later turn around and trash him publically for your own gain. That is total chickenshit.

I think it's stupid he got so mad for so long about the Captain thing. But even so for Christ sakes let it go already. He didn't get you fired and cause you to lose your home and family. Get a grip man.

Shatner has his faults and I think he can spew out some crap at times, but I'm firmly with him on this one about what a mean sprited, self serving, cheap shot little asshole Takei has been for 25 years now.

 

[BigJake]

You know, I'm just going to say it.

I really, truly don't give a shit about the interpersonal politics between Takei and Shatner and who was meaner to whom. I only care about what's on the screen and whether it works.

Far as I'm concerned, the performance Takei put on the screen worked, regardless of his motivations, and there isn't much more to say than that.

 

[Blip]

You know, I'm just going to say it.

I really, truly don't give a shit about the interpersonal politics between Takei and Shatner and who was meaner to whom. I only care about what's on the screen and whether it works.

Far as I'm concerned, the performance Takei put on the screen worked, regardless of his motivations, and there isn't much more to say than that.

QFT.

The voyeuristic gluttony shown by the collective fandom regarding decades old behind the scenes bickering is worn well and truly thin.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

You know, I'm just going to say it.

I really, truly don't give a shit about the interpersonal politics between Takei and Shatner and who was meaner to whom. I only care about what's on the screen and whether it works.

Far as I'm concerned, the performance Takei put on the screen worked, regardless of his motivations, and there isn't much more to say than that.

QFT.

The voyeuristic gluttony shown by the collective fandom regarding decades old behind the scenes bickering is worn well and truly thin.

Get over yourself. So I find the real life dynamics between the actors interesting, sue me.

I think the reboots are nothing but over muscled self indulgent crap that are more in the class of Transformers and The Fast and The Furious than Star Trek. You don't see me on that board telling everyone how they're wrong and being the surpreme arbiter of how everyone should feel the same way.

Don't like. Don't read it. Stop trying to make me look I'm the National Enquirer and I lay awake at night torturing myself thinking "Oh god why can't Takei and Shatner just get along"

The ST world has countless facets, both real and fictional, I find this one interesting, you don't. Guess we're different that way, you don't have to reply with a post that essentially tells me what I can go do with myself because of my interest.

 

[BigJake]

^ You're of course welcome to be interested in whatever you please. I just feel gross about seeing people's character attacked (with epithets like "chickenshit") for reasons that as far as I can tell are based on gossip and hearsay and fairly tangential to the subject of the thread.

 

[Cyke101]

You know, I'm just going to say it.

I really, truly don't give a shit about the interpersonal politics between Takei and Shatner and who was meaner to whom. I only care about what's on the screen and whether it works.

Far as I'm concerned, the performance Takei put on the screen worked, regardless of his motivations, and there isn't much more to say than that.

QFT.

The voyeuristic gluttony shown by the collective fandom regarding decades old behind the scenes bickering is worn well and truly thin.

Get over yourself. So I find the real life dynamics between the actors interesting, sue me.

I think the reboots are nothing but over muscled self indulgent crap that are more in the class of Transformers and The Fast and The Furious than Star Trek. You don't see me on that board telling everyone how they're wrong and being the surpreme arbiter of how everyone should feel the same way.

Don't like. Don't read it. Stop trying to make me look I'm the National Enquirer and I lay awake at night torturing myself thinking "Oh god why can't Takei and Shatner just get along"

The ST world has countless facets, both real and fictional, I find this one interesting, you don't. Guess we're different that way, you don't have to reply with a post that essentially tells me what I can go do with myself because of my interest.

Regarding "don't like it, don't read it" -- the very nature of the board (or any board) means people would have to read it before deciding what they like/don't like -- so it's not like it could be understood and THEN avoided. A spoiler tag about gossip and hearsay would be a very, very weird thing, and it's not like the OP conflated any sort of personal history there either when discussing Sulu -- at that point, it was still about writing/acting rather than conjectural gossip history. Also, outright blocking seems to be an overreaction anyway because you could be talking about something completely different but then people would miss that, too.

If this was a topic titled "George Takei's personal beef with Shatner influenced his captaincy," then yeah, there'd be fair chance for folks to avoid the topic. But that wasn't exactly expected by anyone reading the current title or the original post. I'm not saying you can't talk about it, but it seems rather unreasonable to tell people to avoid something that they're not expecting, either. It's like saying, "If you didn't want the baseball to hit you in the face, then you shouldn't have entered the grocery store."

 

[enterprisecvn65]

QFT.

The voyeuristic gluttony shown by the collective fandom regarding decades old behind the scenes bickering is worn well and truly thin.

Get over yourself. So I find the real life dynamics between the actors interesting, sue me.

I think the reboots are nothing but over muscled self indulgent crap that are more in the class of Transformers and The Fast and The Furious than Star Trek. You don't see me on that board telling everyond e how they're wrong and being the surpreme arbiter of how everyone should feel the same way.

Don't like. Don't read it. Stop trying to make me look I'm the National Enquirer and I lay awake at night torturing myself thinking "Oh god why can't Takei and Shatner just get along"

The ST world has countless facets, both real and fictional, I find this one interesting, you don't. Guess we're different that way, you don't have to reply with a post that essentially tells me what I can go do with myself because of my interest.

Regarding "don't like it, don't read it" -- the very nature of the board (or any board) means people would have to read it before deciding what they like/don't like -- so it's not like it could be understood and THEN avoided. A spoiler tag about gossip and hearsay would be a very, very weird thing, and it's not like the OP conflated any sort of personal history there either when discussing Sulu -- at that point, it was still about writing/acting rather than conjectural gossip history. Also, outright blocking seems to be an overreaction anyway because you could be talking about something completely different but then people would miss that, too.

If this was a topic titled "George Takei's personal beef with Shatner influenced his captaincy," then yeah, there'd be fair chance for folks to avoid the topic. But that wasn't exactly expected by anyone reading the current title or the original post. I'm not saying you can't talk about it, but it seems rather unreasonable to tell people to avoid something that they're not expecting, either. It's like saying, "If you didn't want the baseball to hit you in the face, then you shouldn't have entered the grocery store."

I was stating my opinion on how I believe Takei's feelings from past strongly influenced how he acted as captain. Post do go off on related tangents you know and I threw one out there.

I wasn't just talking out of my ass. Many of the things came from Takei's own book.

Someone though couldn't handle making a connection between real world and ST and went off like I was a member of the paparazzi waiting outside their homes for some dirt. Generally words like voyeuristic and gluttonous are not used in a flattering way and he was saying go f myself in a round about way.

Sorry I'm not just going to sit back and go "you're right I'm a piece of trash for finding some interest in their real life conflicts"

Don't think it's a huge stretch to speculate how a someone's personal experiences and feelings might influence their job. It only happens to millions every day. Actors aren't some holy creatures above this part of life.

 

[BigJake]

Sorry I'm not just going to sit back and go "you're right I'm a piece of trash for finding some interest in their real life conflicts"

Nobody called you a "piece of trash," and the vivid fantasies you appear to be having about what people supposedly assume you to be thinking in the long dark watches of the night are entirely your own. Blip said your apparent voyeurism was distasteful, and was agreeing with a comment I made which I frankly would not have made if you hadn't progressed to outright attacking Takei. The way dialogue works is that you're entitled to your opinions and interests, and other people are entitled to their opinions of same. If your interests involve speculating about the lives of the cast to the point of that kind of judgment, it's probably a good idea to develop a thicker skin?

That said, I didn't mean to pooh-pooh your interests entirely, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. Honestly just dialing back the epithets a couple of notches might be in order, or something? I don't see what made it absolutely necessary to just start flat-out calling the guy names. (And really, I don't see the relevance to the central question of the thread of your contention that Takei was supposedly "chickenshit" for "unloading" on Shatner after having hung fire on one particular day. There's all sorts of things potentially wrong with that -- like, for instance, did holding his tongue on one occasion obligate him to never speak his mind in public for eternity? -- but the apparent lack of relevancy kind of tops the list for me. It's like you're seizing on an excuse to grind an axe.)

 

[fonzob1]

I think it was actually Nicholas Meyer who, with his direction and screenplay writing, forced George Takei to act like some kind of "brute" against his will. All Takei ever wanted to do was take his shirt off and swing his sword around the ship.

I think bringing backstage drama into the equation is reading way too much into things.

 

[J.T.B.]

The only thing I truly found odd about Sulu's command style was that he was taking a cup of tea in fine china in the captain's chair. That does create something of an air about him. It certainly makes it clear who is captain and who are the crew. Picard didn't even drink his Earl Grey in fine china while sitting in his captain's chair overseeing the bridge. The times we saw Kirk drinking coffee, it was out of a plastic cup.

Yeah, a cup and saucer instead of a mug. An old-school wardroom type thing which probably appealed to Meyer's nautical predisposition. I always wondered if the nice closeups of the cup had anything to do with merchandizing. Probably not, but after the movie the Pfaltzgraff company came out with a line of Star Trek kitchen ware.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Sorry I'm not just going to sit back and go "you're right I'm a piece of trash for finding some interest in their real life conflicts"

Nobody called you a "piece of trash," and the vivid fantasies you appear to be having about what people supposedly assume you to be thinking in the long dark watches of the night are entirely your own. Blip said your apparent voyeurism was distasteful, and was agreeing with a comment I made which I frankly would not have made if you hadn't progressed to outright attacking Takei. The way dialogue works is that you're entitled to your opinions and interests, and other people are entitled to their opinions of same. If your interests involve speculating about the lives of the cast to the point of that kind of judgment, it's probably a good idea to develop a thicker skin?

That said, I didn't mean to pooh-pooh your interests entirely, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. Honestly just dialing back the epithets a couple of notches might be in order, or something? I don't see what made it absolutely necessary to just start flat-out calling the guy names. (And really, I don't see the relevance to the central question of the thread of your contention that Takei was supposedly "chickenshit" for "unloading" on Shatner after having hung fire on one particular day. There's all sorts of things potentially wrong with that -- like, for instance, did holding his tongue on one occasion obligate him to never speak his mind in public for eternity? -- but the apparent lack of relevancy kind of tops the list for me. It's like you're seizing on an excuse to grind an axe.)

So maybe it did go a little too far in calling Takei what I felt. My original intent was, based on things I've seen and hear, to point out it's a reasonable hypothesis to relate Takei's portrayal as captain to things that happened in reality.

I hoped against hope people would see it that way and not throw the "stop trashing their personal lives who cares" line at me and basically tell me to go screw myself.

Of course I was naive to believe this because it's clear the slightest mention of behind the scene conflicts sends some here into a tizzy no matter the context or how it may relate to the op. To them it's all just national enquirer type bullshit.

And BTW here are the sources where I got all these wild rumors from for my opinion

Star Trek Memories by William Shatner
To The Stars by George Takei
Various interviews with William Shatner and George Takei.

In the future I'll be sure to stop using such worthless crap for information and find more reliable resources from people closer to the issue.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Guys, cool it.

 

[BigJake]

So maybe it did go a little too far in calling Takei what I felt. My original intent was, based on things I've seen and hear, to point out it's a reasonable hypothesis to relate Takei's portrayal as captain to things that happened in reality.

And you made that point perfectly well. It was what you did after making it that I have a problem with.

(Sorry Peach. I'm done.)

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Guys, cool it.

Understood clearly, sir.

That's a little joke cuz that's what the gunner said in TSFS when Kruge told him target the Enterprise's engines only and asked him if he understood when the previous gunner made the mistake of "A lucky shot" at Grissom and Kruge was less than understanding

 

[Marsden]

Guys, cool it.

Understood clearly, sir.

That's a little joke cuz that's what the gunner said in TSFS when Kruge told him target the Enterprise's engines only and asked him if he understood when the previous gunner made the mistake of "A lucky shot" at Grissom and Kruge was less than understanding

I love the look on his face when he said that, too! Talk about the hot seat! Kruge demands quality work or else....

Well, he got himself blown up a little later anyway when Jim blew up the Enterprise. Worrying does not extend your life.

 

[Franklin]

The only thing I truly found odd about Sulu's command style was that he was taking a cup of tea in fine china in the captain's chair. That does create something of an air about him. It certainly makes it clear who is captain and who are the crew. Picard didn't even drink his Earl Grey in fine china while sitting in his captain's chair overseeing the bridge. The times we saw Kirk drinking coffee, it was out of a plastic cup.

Yeah, a cup and saucer instead of a mug. An old-school wardroom type thing which probably appealed to Meyer's nautical predisposition. I always wondered if the nice closeups of the cup had anything to do with merchandizing. Probably not, but after the movie the Pfaltzgraff company came out with a line of Star Trek kitchen ware.

Oh, combined with the Pfaltzgraff Enterprise china, I can assure you it worked as marketing, because I currently have a Pfaltzgraff tankard of the Enterprise china holding pens and pencils on my desk. Found it and some mugs about twenty years ago at a T.J. Maxx, of all places. The mugs are on a book shelf.

Maybe the china was used because the effect of it crashing on the floor was more dramatic. Still, I found it a bit stodgy for Sulu. The rest of his command style that I saw in TUC (didn't see the VOY episode) was fine. I think he may have been preoccupied with what was going on with his old crew, too, realizing it's far more serious than he could let on (or maybe even knew, himself).

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Guys, cool it.

Understood clearly, sir.

That's a little joke cuz that's what the gunner said in TSFS when Kruge told him target the Enterprise's engines only and asked him if he understood when the previous gunner made the mistake of "A lucky shot" at Grissom and Kruge was less than understanding

I love the look on his face when he said that, too! Talk about the hot seat! Kruge demands quality work or else....

Well, he got himself blown up a little later anyway when Jim blew up the Enterprise. Worrying does not extend your life.

The fact Kruge called him an "animal" after he blew him away in cold blood was pretty hilarious too.