Martok the Changeling

[Wingsley]

In the DS9 episode "Apocalypse Rising", we learn that a shape-shifting Dominion Founder has infiltrated the Klingon Empire, impersonating General Martok. When Odo engages "Martok" in combat, the metamorph reveals itself to a large roomful of armed Klingons. Eventually the hail of Klingon disuptor fire overwhelms the alien, or so we are led to believe.

This scene made me wonder: were DS9's writers and producers trying to tell the audience that even heavy weapons fire would not necessarily affect a founder's ability to defend itself or escape during combat?

It took an awful lot of direct hits before it seemed to explode.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I thought the Klingons killed it. It had a lot of hit points, but eventually it ran out.

 

[Ithekro]

The Mirror Universe Odo was destroyed by phaser fire.

 

[Wingsley]

My concern was that "Martok" did not "poof" after one or two direct hits, but only after a very large number of hits.

 

[Reaper63]

It may be that the disruptors were powered down for the ceremony, which included a lot of Drinking and no sleep, just in case there were shots taken during.

Then again, the Martok might have been armored. Maybe real Klingon armor as well.

 

[Timo]

...Indeed, I think we have never seen an "armored" Klingon disappear or blow up when hit by a phaser. A single shot is still enough to kill (or at least knock out of the fight for the duration of the scene), but apparently not to vaporize!

Then again, that enraged horde of drunken Klingons probably would not have taken great care not to aim at the head or other unarmored areas...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[kirkfan]

In the DS9 episode "Apocalypse Rising", we learn that a shape-shifting Dominion Founder has infiltrated the Klingon Empire, impersonating General Martok. When Odo engages "Martok" in combat, the metamorph reveals itself to a large roomful of armed Klingons. Eventually the hail of Klingon disuptor fire overwhelms the alien, or so we are led to believe.

This scene made me wonder: were DS9's writers and producers trying to tell the audience that even heavy weapons fire would not necessarily affect a founder's ability to defend itself or escape during combat?

It took an awful lot of direct hits before it seemed to explode.

It took only one shot to kill Odo in the mu.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It may be that the disruptors were powered down for the ceremony, which included a lot of Drinking and no sleep, just in case there were shots taken during.

Plus, the disruptor that killed MU Odo was Bajoran. The Bajorans in that universe probably set all their weapons on kill, all the time, because they were guarding Terran slaves, and expected to kill them on a whim.

The Klingons in "Apocalypse Rising" wouldn't be like that - they expected to get drunk, party and fight, not to kill.

 

[kirkfan]

It may be that the disruptors were powered down for the ceremony, which included a lot of Drinking and no sleep, just in case there were shots taken during.

Plus, the disruptor that killed MU Odo was Bajoran. The Bajorans in that universe probably set all their weapons on kill, all the time, because they were guarding Terran slaves, and expected to kill them on a whim.

The Klingons in "Apocalypse Rising" wouldn't be like that - they expected to get drunk, party and fight, not to kill.

And we all know how eager the klingons are to set their disruptors on stun...

...NOT! I am not even sure a klingon disruptor has a stun setting.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ A Klingon might want to interrogate a prisoner before killing them. Maybe a stun setting would come in handy then!

 

[Timo]

...NOT! I am not even sure a klingon disruptor has a stun setting.

The closest we came to discovering whether there's one was when Odo made a joke about it in "Sons of Mogh". Not decisive, alas.

Odo: "Your brother's had an interesting career with the Klingon Defense Forces, Mister Worf. I just have one question. Does he know how to use the stun setting on a disruptor?"
Worf: "Non-lethal skills are not valued in the Empire."

It would be a more informative bit of dialogue if it weren't between the most sarcastic character in the Trek universe, and the one with the least sense of humor.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[kirkfan]

^ A Klingon might want to interrogate a prisoner before killing them. Maybe a stun setting would come in handy then!

They have the klingon tasers, aka pain-sticks, for that. It seems like a human taser feels like a caress in comparison.

 

[Finn]

This came up a while back. Someone attributed this to the probability that the Martok changeling was a far more experienced and stronger shapeshifter.

 

[Ithekro]

He had figured out how to pass blood screenings.

 

[kirkfan]

This came up a while back. Someone attributed this to the probability that the Martok changeling was a far more experienced and stronger shapeshifter.

What's funny, in a ridiculous way, is that Odo said that he (the changeling) had no idea of what "honor" meant and that's how he was able to spot him.

Seriously, how can someone live among Klingons for so long and have no idea what Klingon honor means? which is a word that the average klingon uses about a thousand times a day!

It would be like pretending to be a christian and never having heard of Jesus.

 

[Sidewinder]

This came up a while back. Someone attributed this to the probability that the Martok changeling was a far more experienced and stronger shapeshifter.

What's funny, in a ridiculous way, is that Odo said that he (the changeling) had no idea of what "honor" meant and that's how he was able to spot him.

Seriously, how can someone live among Klingons for so long and have no idea what Klingon honor means? which is a word that the average klingon uses about a thousand times a day!

It would be like pretending to be a christian and never having heard of Jesus.

Arrogance. This version of Martok only blended in, he didn't embrace the Klingon way of life. I just wonder how the changeling interacted with other members of his house.

Plus didn't Martok have a wife? How would that have gone over in the bedroom? The female changeling had to be taught by Odo's limited experience about how "solids" express their love. Who taught this one?

 

[Hando]

It makes me wonder if the Founders - in spite of the facts - did posses ESP.

When we first met the Female Founder she told Odo that the Founders stay in a shape and/or meditate on it to better understand it.

So if they stay in a shape of a person a long enough time, they should better mimic that person.
I don't know, is it a magical law of similarity?

Overall the Fonder infiltrators do not make sense, every one of them taking a humanoid shape should have been found out within a day!

 

[Timo]

He had figured out how to pass blood screenings.

Heck, he invented the blood screenings!

Clearly, they had very little merit to begin with. But they supposedly did work on unskilled kids like Odo, or else Starfleet's pet Changeling himself would have been the one to point out their uselessness, and not Sisko's father. Any adult Changeling would no doubt be able to pass with flying colors, though.

Clearly, they don't need to sleep in a bucket every 16-18 hours, so they probably gradually grow out of that need or at least manage to increase the time in between the naps. And even Odo can split into, say, shards of glass for a short time; adults just do it better and longer.

The female changeling had to be taught by Odo's limited experience about how "solids" express their love.

I'd see that more as the FC humoring the child. Surely the Founders would have all human(oid) habits down pat by "now", what with all human(oid)s in Trek having more or less the same habits, and the Founders having observed those for the past ten thousand years at the very least.

Pretending to be Martok's wife's husband ought to be a breeze. Just play "moody" until you figure out what works and what doesn't.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Plus didn't Martok have a wife? How would that have gone over in the bedroom? The female changeling had to be taught by Odo's limited experience about how "solids" express their love. Who taught this one?

Presumably lots of battles on the Cardassian front keeps him away from the marital bed. Not only would he fulfill his mission, he would also keep his cover

Seriously, how can someone live among Klingons for so long and have no idea what Klingon honor means? which is a word that the average klingon uses about a thousand times a day!

The Martok Changelling didn't need to prove his honor, he just needed piggyback on the honor of a known, respect Klingon--which is why he assumed Martok's form. That may have changed over time if the Changelling's decisions proved detrimental to the empire. As it stood, Martok had banked plenty of capital in honor, and the Changelling spent it willingly.

 

[Timo]

We're probably looking at this from the wrong end. Klingons are not honorable by any common, measurable standard: they do as they please and then call that honorable, and accuse everybody else of being dishonorable. Neither the real nor the fake Martok are exceptions there. So when Odo says he can tell the fake Martok is dishonorable, he's simply in error. But it doesn't matter, because his "false positive" corresponds with the reality of this Martok-lookalike indeed being a Changeling.

Odo knows the Cardassian culture in some detail. He's no expert on Klingon culture. So there is no plausible reason for him to be able to tell whether Martok here has violated some part of the Klingon code. But the other heroes have no greater expertise, as Dax for some reason was left behind and Worf is blinded by his prejudices, so it's up to Odo to come up with this rationalization for what really is just his policeman instinct telling him he's being lied at.

The real mystery here is why Martok chooses to reveal himself as a Founder after Odo starts accusing him in public. Sure, he might be unwilling to kill Odo, but he could still easily exploit the chaotic situation to get many, many other people killed and the war solidly and bitterly continued.

Timo Saloniemi