Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Universe?

[TRON JA307020]

I don't see how it really could be. I think the writers should have said Spock went to a alternate universe and changed that time line. Before the Narda even changed anything the Kelvin was way more advanced then ships of Kirks Era(i.e. Viewscreen in glass). I think the writers could easily have just said Spock was thrown into a alternate universe and changed its course rather than a universe that was supposedly supposed to be exactly like the Star trek universe before it became a alternate universe offshoot. I mean there isn't one thing in the NuStar NuTrek universe that is anything like the original in look or character, (Maybe almost Bones but that's it)

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

I don't see how it really could be. I think the writers should have said Spock went to a alternate universe and changed that time line. Before the Narda even changed anything the Kelvin was way more advanced then ships of Kirks Era(i.e. Viewscreen in glass). I think the writers could easily have just said Spock was thrown into a alternate universe and changed its course rather than a universe that was supposedly supposed to be exactly like the Star trek universe before it became a alternate universe offshoot. I mean there isn't one thing in the NuStar NuTrek universe that is anything like the original in look or character, (Maybe almost Bones but that's it)

If the writers said so then that's what it is. Whether the characters or sets look like what they did in 1966, 1979, 1982 or 1987 is irrelevant to that fact.

The split happened on the day James Kirk was born. Stuff took a different path. It's that simple.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

I don't see how it really could be. I think the writers should have said Spock went to a alternate universe and changed that time line. Before the Narda even changed anything the Kelvin was way more advanced then ships of Kirks Era(i.e. Viewscreen in glass). I think the writers could easily have just said Spock was thrown into a alternate universe and changed its course rather than a universe that was supposedly supposed to be exactly like the Star trek universe before it became a alternate universe offshoot. I mean there isn't one thing in the NuStar NuTrek universe that is anything like the original in look or character, (Maybe almost Bones but that's it)

If the writers said so then that's what it is. Whether the characters or sets look like what they did in 1966, 1979, 1982 or 1987 is irrelevant to that fact.

The split happened on the day James Kirk was born. Stuff took a different path. It's that simple.

Everything took a different path. Buildings, clothing, everyones character traits, all technology. I find it hard to believe that not one friggin thing stayed the same. They should have made it a alternate universe with changes. They should not have said the NuTrek was born from the Star Trek universe.

 

[fonzob1]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Everything took a different path. Buildings, clothing, everyones character traits, all technology. I find it hard to believe that not one friggin thing stayed the same. They should have made it a alternate universe with changes. They should not have said the NuTrek was born from the Star Trek universe.

People (who otherwise lived long lives) dying at the hands of Vulcans from the future could alter the course of history significantly. It's a domino effect. For all we know, the interior decorator of the original enterprise died on that ship (or an ancestor). lol

As far as what people look like, at some point you have to realize its a movie and these are actors playing roles.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Everything took a different path. Buildings, clothing, everyones character traits, all technology. I find it hard to believe that not one friggin thing stayed the same. They should have made it a alternate universe with changes. They should not have said the NuTrek was born from the Star Trek universe.

I think the TOS to TMP aesthetic transition is more shocking than anything we saw in the two Abrams films. To be perfectly honest.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

I don't see how it really could be. I think the writers should have said Spock went to a alternate universe and changed that time line. Before the Narda even changed anything the Kelvin was way more advanced then ships of Kirks Era(i.e. Viewscreen in glass). I think the writers could easily have just said Spock was thrown into a alternate universe and changed its course rather than a universe that was supposedly supposed to be exactly like the Star trek universe before it became a alternate universe offshoot. I mean there isn't one thing in the NuStar NuTrek universe that is anything like the original in look or character, (Maybe almost Bones but that's it)

If the writers said so then that's what it is. Whether the characters or sets look like what they did in 1966, 1979, 1982 or 1987 is irrelevant to that fact.

The split happened on the day James Kirk was born. Stuff took a different path. It's that simple.

Everything took a different path. Buildings, clothing, everyones character traits, all technology. I find it hard to believe that not one friggin thing stayed the same. They should have made it a alternate universe with changes. They should not have said the NuTrek was born from the Star Trek universe.

But it was. Literally. Figuratively. Absolutely. People who want to complain will complain in either circumstance and probably with the same complaints.

Buildings? Who cares? Star Trek isn't about buildings.

Clothing? Again who cares? Star Trek isn't about clothes. Still they use a variation on the classic uniform ( first time in movie). And on the TMP Admirals uniform. So good enough.

Character traits. Well most of the original characters are a collection of catch phrases rather than actual traits, so they've improved on that. Kirk, Spock and McCoy ( the ones with actual "traits") are definitely close to the originals. ( with a twit or two)

Technology. Believe it or not, Star Trek isn't about technology. Still,

Warp drive. Check

Transporter. Check

Phasers. Check.

That's really all the "technology" Star Trek needs.

Stuff stayed the same. Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scott, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov all serve on a ship called the Enterprise. That's all the "Same" a show called "Star Trek" needs.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Everything took a different path. Buildings, clothing, everyones character traits, all technology. I find it hard to believe that not one friggin thing stayed the same. They should have made it a alternate universe with changes. They should not have said the NuTrek was born from the Star Trek universe.

I think the TOS to TMP aesthetic transition is more shocking than anything we saw in the two Abrams films. To be perfectly honest.

The transition from TOS to the Abrams films was way more shocking. THe changes in TMP were explained it. The enterprise was refitted. We still had the same basic technology and feel to the ship. Actually the enterprise in TMP has a close resemblance to the way the enterprise looked in The Cage(I.E. Interior coloring and close cropped hallways.)

 

[BillJ]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

The transition from TOS to the Abrams films was way more shocking. THe changes in TMP were explained it. The enterprise was refitted. We still had the same basic technology and feel to the ship. Actually the enterprise in TMP has a close resemblance to the way the enterprise looked in The Cage(I.E. Interior coloring and close cropped hallways.)

No. Just no.

Everything had changed. Not just the Enterprise. Space stations near (Spacedock) and far (Epsilon Nine) all had the new aesthetic. That's quite a trick to pull off in two-and-a-half years. The Kelvin while more advanced due to technology being more advanced, felt like something that could have existed pre-TOS.

You can't hang Abrams for technology evolving any more than you could Rick Berman when they made Star Trek: Enterprise. That goes for what the audiences see and how the sets are constructed. General audiences wouldn't watch something made now that looked like Forbidden Planet or Lost in Space. They aren't interested in random blinking lights, which were awesomely cool when I was four years old, in the here and now.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

If the writers said so then that's what it is. Whether the characters or sets look like what they did in 1966, 1979, 1982 or 1987 is irrelevant to that fact.

The split happened on the day James Kirk was born. Stuff took a different path. It's that simple.

Everything took a different path. Buildings, clothing, everyones character traits, all technology. I find it hard to believe that not one friggin thing stayed the same. They should have made it a alternate universe with changes. They should not have said the NuTrek was born from the Star Trek universe.

But it was. Literally. Figuratively. Absolutely. People who want to complain will complain in either circumstance and probably with the same complaints.

Buildings? Who cares? Star Trek isn't about buildings.

Clothing? Again who cares? Star Trek isn't about clothes. Still they use a variation on the classic uniform ( first time in movie). And on the TMP Admirals uniform. So good enough.

Character traits. Well most of the original characters are a collection of catch phrases rather than actual traits, so they've improved on that. Kirk, Spock and McCoy ( the ones with actual "traits") are definitely close to the originals. ( with a twit or two)

Technology. Believe it or not, Star Trek isn't about technology. Still,

Warp drive. Check

Transporter. Check

Phasers. Check.

That's really all the "technology" Star Trek needs.

Stuff stayed the same. Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scott, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov all serve on a ship called the Enterprise. That's all the "Same" a show called "Star Trek" needs.

All the character traits were radically changed except for McCoy who unfortunately has a smaller role in these NuTrek movies. Kirk is basically a immature child. Spock is a emotional basket case. Uhura is having sex with Spock and uses that relationship to get on the Enterprise. Shes also really whiny. Sulu not much going on there. Chekov seems more like Wesley Crusher then the Chekov that was in TOS. Oh yeah he is now in engineering.

Technology changes are everywhere. The transporter is much more flexible than the one in TOS. The viewscreen technology is imbedded in the window. The ship travels to the Klingon homeworld in one day so it much faster. The look of the ship is so radically changed that even the shape of the bridge is different from TOS.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

The transition from TOS to the Abrams films was way more shocking. THe changes in TMP were explained it. The enterprise was refitted. We still had the same basic technology and feel to the ship. Actually the enterprise in TMP has a close resemblance to the way the enterprise looked in The Cage(I.E. Interior coloring and close cropped hallways.)

No. Just no.

Everything had changed. Not just the Enterprise. Space stations near (Spacedock) and far (Epsilon Nine) all had the new aesthetic. That's quite a trick to pull off in two-and-a-half years. The Kelvin while more advanced due to technology being more advanced, felt like something that could have existed pre-TOS.

You can't hang Abrams for technology evolving any more than you could Rick Berman when they made Star Trek: Enterprise. That goes for what the audiences see and how the sets are constructed. General audiences wouldn't watch something made now that looked like Forbidden Planet or Lost in Space. They aren't interested in random blinking lights, which were awesomely cool when I was four years old, in the here and now.

One time travel mishap still would not have changed every iota of the universe in a matter of 20 years. Also the recreation of the bridge in the ST:Enterprise In a Mirror Darkly showed just how the TOS era ships could work if the effects were available in the 60s. The NX-01 actually looked primitive next to the Defiant. The Bridge looked fantastic. Abrams could not incorporate any of that in the NuTrek. I find it hard to believe.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Technology changes are everywhere. The transporter is much more flexible than the one in TOS.

You mean the one that could split people in half and then put them back together again?

The viewscreen technology is imbedded in the window.

Which is pretty fucking cool. Should we only allow CRT's on any Star Trek series/movie that takes place prior to Insurrection?

The ship travels to the Klingon homeworld in one day so it much faster.

Star Trek has always worked at the speed the plot needs. In "That Which Survives" the Enterprise can cover a thousand light-years in 12 hours.

The look of the ship is so radically changed that even the shape of the bridge is different from TOS.

Honestly, as much as I love the TOS bridge, the one from the Abrams films feels more like the command center a ship the size of the Enterprise would need. Gotta say that the shape is close enough.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

One time travel mishap still would not have changed every iota of the universe in a matter of 20 years. Also the recreation of the bridge in the ST:Enterprise In a Mirror Darkly showed just how the TOS era ships could work if the effects were available in the 60s. The NX-01 actually looked primitive next to the Defiant. The Bridge looked fantastic. Abrams could not incorporate any of that in the NuTrek. I find it hard to believe.

The exterior Matt Jefferies design in timeless. But the interiors? It pains me to say it, but the sets are of their time. What was cool in the 60's and 70's just isn't cool now.

 

[martok2112]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Roddenberry Trek, Movie era Trek, Berman/Braga Trek, Abrams Trek.

Guess what? It's all Star Trek. People trying to push off on me and other free thinkers what is or is not Star Trek are a major reason why I no longer consider myself a fan of anything, anymore. So, thank you, self-appointed, totally unofficial , and very much so called authorities on what you try to lord as Trek on everyone else for fucking up fandom and making it a complete waste of time and fun.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

All the character traits were radically changed except for McCoy who unfortunately has a smaller role in these NuTrek movies. Kirk is basically a immature child.

He's cocky and perhaps too sure of himself. Traits the old Kirk had in spades. So, not radically changed,

Spock is a emotional basket case.

Not really. He has been emotionally compromised. ( its in the film) Something that happens to Spock quite often in TOS. So again , not radically changed.

Uhura is having sex with Spock and uses that relationship to get on the Enterprise. Shes also really whiny.

Must have missed that scene. Though, there is a scene where she reminds Spock that she is a highly qualified expert in linguistics and communications and was supposed to be assigned to Enterprise. And that her's and Spock's relationship should not change that

"Whiny"? Is that what we're calling intelligent women who speak their mind these days?

Sulu not much going on there.

So nothing radically changed then? The same at it was before,

Chekov seems more like Wesley Crusher then the Chekov that was in TOS. Oh yeah he is now in engineering.

An improvement over the two note character he was and he still has those two note, so no radical changes.

And in TOS Chekov was the secondary Science Officer in TOS in spite of being a Ensign and a Navigator. (Where were all the the other Science officers on the ship?)

Oh, he's not in engineering anymore. (Spoiler alert) Scotty's back.

Technology changes are everywhere. The transporter is much more flexible than the one in TOS.

What does that even mean? You beam up. You beam down. Still the same,

The viewscreen technology is imbedded in the window

. So? Who's to say it wan't before.

The ship travels to the Klingon homeworld in one day so it much faster.

Speed of plot. Happens all the time

The look of the ship is so radically changed that even the shape of the bridge is different from TOS.

It's a saucer, three pylons and three cylinders. That's a Star Trek ship

Command chair in the center. Two stations up front. Other stations around the perimeter. That's a Star Trek bridge,

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Everything took a different path. Buildings, clothing, everyones character traits, all technology. I find it hard to believe that not one friggin thing stayed the same. They should have made it a alternate universe with changes. They should not have said the NuTrek was born from the Star Trek universe.

I think the TOS to TMP aesthetic transition is more shocking than anything we saw in the two Abrams films. To be perfectly honest.

The transition from TOS to the Abrams films was way more shocking. THe changes in TMP were explained it. The enterprise was refitted. We still had the same basic technology and feel to the ship. Actually the enterprise in TMP has a close resemblance to the way the enterprise looked in The Cage(I.E. Interior coloring and close cropped hallways.)

I love how the Enterprise refit affected Klingon foreheads.

 

[Smellmet]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

It's just artistic licence and a fresh interpretation of the material. If the JJ movies had been released with the TOS bridge they would have been laughed out of the cinema...

 

[Wulff359]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Roddenberry Trek, Movie era Trek, Berman/Braga Trek, Abrams Trek.

Guess what? It's all Star Trek. People trying to push off on me and other free thinkers what is or is not Star Trek are a major reason why I no longer consider myself a fan of anything, anymore. So, thank you, self-appointed, totally unofficial , and very much so called authorities on what you try to lord as Trek on everyone else for fucking up fandom and making it a complete waste of time and fun.

It is amazing, how always the same bunch of people pop up, to defend their point if view, if they only THINK somebody would criticise THEIR point of view. Are you getting paid by the PR departement of "Bad Robot"? Did they promise you free tickets to the next movie? And before you bash on me, for getting personal, re-read your post one more time. And then re-read the Thread-Title. "WE" are no more "self-appointed authorities" in terms of Star Trek than you seem to claim for yourself. As a matter of fact, Star Trek is so divers, that everyone has their OWN VERSION of it in their Brains. And that is a good thing! It allows for variety and creativity. Some people like it for its display of humanity, some for the science, some for not beeing taken as complete fools... Star Trek always wanted people to think and discuss about it. AND THIS IS WHAT WE DO HERE. A "free thinker" should be able to appreciate that. We do what Roddenberry wanted us to do. If you do not understand - or at least tolerate - that point, then you really did make the right decision by not calling yourself fan anymore.

But now back to the topic please.

Is NuTrek a changed timeline from the Star Trek Universe? I would offer a thought: Too many things imho do not fit. Too many things of the Prime Timeline have played in our past, that cannot happen in this Timeline anymore. And science changed. So, could it be, that Spock in 2009 was not the Prime Spock, but an alternate reality Spock, traveling back in his alternate Universe changing an "Alternate Prime Timeline"? This, of course, would lead to a new discussion how many of those alternate realitys exist, and could one "slide" between them? Or can you become "The One" by killing all your doubles?

Where is Q when you need him.

 

[Dukhat]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

It is amazing, how always the same bunch of people pop up, to defend their point if view, if they only THINK somebody would criticise THEIR point of view. Are you getting paid by the PR departement of "Bad Robot"? Did they promise you free tickets to the next movie? And before you bash on me, for getting personal, re-read your post one more time. And then re-read the Thread-Title. "WE" are no more "self-appointed authorities" in terms of Star Trek than you seem to claim for yourself. As a matter of fact, Star Trek is so divers, that everyone has their OWN VERSION of it in their Brains. And that is a good thing! It allows for variety and creativity. Some people like it for its display of humanity, some for the science, some for not beeing taken as complete fools... Star Trek always wanted people to think and discuss about it. AND THIS IS WHAT WE DO HERE. A "free thinker" should be able to appreciate that. We do what Roddenberry wanted us to do. If you do not understand - or at least tolerate - that point, then you really did make the right decision by not calling yourself fan anymore.

What I find amazing is that you only joined this BBS a few days ago and yet act as if you know all about us and feel the presumption to tell us what we're supposed to be doing here.

 

[Malaika]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

I don't see how it really could be. I think the writers should have said Spock went to a alternate universe and changed that time line. Before the Narda even changed anything the Kelvin was way more advanced then ships of Kirks Era(i.e. Viewscreen in glass). I think the writers could easily have just said Spock was thrown into a alternate universe and changed its course rather than a universe that was supposedly supposed to be exactly like the Star trek universe before it became a alternate universe offshoot. I mean there isn't one thing in the NuStar NuTrek universe that is anything like the original in look or character, (Maybe almost Bones but that's it)

I don't get the point...
the reboot is a quantum reality.
'the writers should have said Spock went to a alternate universe and changed that time line.'
but in some way, they did and that's what happened.

Technically, yes Spock prime and the Narada created this reality when they went back in the past and modified the course of the timeline. Time travel essentially created a parallel reality (=different=alternate) instead of changing the tos one (that still exists parallel to this one) ala 'back to the future'.
But the thing is, the universe doesn't have our same (and limited) concept of time and space so, in some way, it might be also correct to say that this reality had always existed parallel to tos and it's possible that even some events before the Kelvin accident happened differently and thus the so called butterfly effect created by the Narada changed some things retroactively too.

Perhaps my interpretation is too simplistic and confusing but I think that from the universe's pov, so to speak, that is on a different scale than ours, there isn't really such a thing as past present and future the way we intend it because, in some way, everything exists in the same 'moment'.
That's how you can time travel and jump from one reality to another or 'visit' the past, the present and the future of one..

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

I don't see how it really could be. I think the writers should have said Spock went to a alternate universe and changed that time line. Before the Narda even changed anything the Kelvin was way more advanced then ships of Kirks Era(i.e. Viewscreen in glass). I think the writers could easily have just said Spock was thrown into a alternate universe and changed its course rather than a universe that was supposedly supposed to be exactly like the Star trek universe before it became a alternate universe offshoot. I mean there isn't one thing in the NuStar NuTrek universe that is anything like the original in look or character, (Maybe almost Bones but that's it)

I don't get the point...
the reboot is a quantum reality.
'the writers should have said Spock went to a alternate universe and changed that time line.'
but in some way, they did and that's what happened.

Technically, yes Spock prime and the Narada created this reality when they went back in the past and modified the course of the timeline. Time travel essentially created a parallel reality (=different=alternate) instead of changing the tos one (that still exists parallel to this one) ala 'back to the future'.
But the thing is, the universe doesn't have our same (and limited) concept of time and space so, in some way, it might be also correct to say that this reality had always existed parallel to tos and it's possible that even some events before the Kelvin accident happened differently and thus the so called butterfly effect created by the Narada changed some things retroactively too.

Perhaps my interpretation is too simplistic and confusing but I think that from the universe's pov, so to speak, that is on a different scale than ours, there isn't really such a thing as past present and future the way we intend it because, in some way, everything exists in the same 'moment'.
That's how you can time travel and jump from one reality to another or 'visit' the past, the present and the future of one..

I also think that the red matter could have been used to explain the creation of the parallel universe or Spock and the Narda being thrown into a existing parallel universe that was different already but which they changed due to their interference. This would explain all the difference that we see. Unfortunately they didn't use that explanation and treated the time travel and changing of time as we saw in the original series, TNG and Voyager. Since they treated it as regular time travel the NuTrek universe should look somewhat like the TOS universe.