My point is that Voyager observe the distinction between night and day shift even though it's useless and even counterproductive to do so. Like an atavistic behavior is actually detrimental to a species.
Bridge Watches Away Teams and other Conundrums
- Thread starter Shamrock Holmes
- Start date
The majority of Voyager's crew consisted of Starfleet officers, men and women who'd spent years observing Starfleet regulations--including following shift schedules and duty rosters. That the ship was several thousand light-years from Federation space didn't change this fact, nor did it make any less important for Janeway's crew to comply with Starfleet protocol, the adherence to which was't optional and wasn't determined based on the ship's location.
--Sran
It would actually be more than useful, but absolutely essential in keeping in synch with Starfleet.
Yep. A case could be made that a starship's clock or mission clock is set to whatever time is being concurrently used at Starfleet HQ (either San Francisco local time or Greenwich Mean Time).Sran said:
Strange if there are 4 shifts I would have expected 4 "commanding" officers.
All of them working 2 shifts (12 hours). This would explain why both the CO and XO are on the bridge at the same time.
This could work with TNG. Data can work more hours and perhaps get paid more because of that. The only other stable bridge officer would be Worf, perhaps he too needs less sleep. Other bridge personnel were extras.
This would also explain why Jellico wanted to change the shifts from 4 to 3.
I consider the idea that the CMO is on a bridge quite dangerous, if there is an emergency she is on the bridge and people die.
The example with Voyager is baffling. We have 3 experienced officers and they leave it to the newbie. Is this a requirement of the Operations manager?
Do we have any real examples? How does it work on current space craft or in the operation control? Perhaps on a submarine?
All of them working 2 shifts (12 hours). This would explain why both the CO and XO are on the bridge at the same time.
This could work with TNG. Data can work more hours and perhaps get paid more because of that. The only other stable bridge officer would be Worf, perhaps he too needs less sleep. Other bridge personnel were extras.
This would also explain why Jellico wanted to change the shifts from 4 to 3.
I consider the idea that the CMO is on a bridge quite dangerous, if there is an emergency she is on the bridge and people die.
The example with Voyager is baffling. We have 3 experienced officers and they leave it to the newbie. Is this a requirement of the Operations manager?
Do we have any real examples? How does it work on current space craft or in the operation control? Perhaps on a submarine?
^Actually, Jelico wanted to go in the opposite direction.
--Sran
--Sran
I doubt anyone would work two shifts unless they were on a special assignment. Shifts are supposed to spare people excess fatigue, if people routinely work several shifts in a row, that defeats the purpose.
Hando, TrekLit has recently started using the idea of Officer of the Watch (possibly based on both RW practice and the earlier "Night Shift Commander" (sometimes referred to as Executive Officer) from Peter David's New Frontier series), which is senior-ranked officer who is only responsible for commanding the Bridge when the Captain, First and Second Officers are off-shift or unavailable. They have mostly been depicted as either Commanders or Lieutenant Commanders and tend to be the de facto Acting First if both the First and Second Officers are unavailable for an extended period of time, tho this is at the Captain's discretion (for instance Harry Kim is made Acting First Officer of Voyager over the Beta and Gamma Watch Officers during Paris' absence at Paris recommendation. So in a way, they do have three Second Officers rather than one, while still maintaining the 'one captain'/'one second-in-command' from canon.
However, I do agree with you that the idea of the Chief Medical Officer standing regular bridge watches (or indeed the Chief Engineer or to a lesser extent the Chief of Security) is dangerous and gets in the way of their primary function and - as I understand it - is not something that would be possible in modern militaries? (The situation in Disaster is a slightly different one, and although likewise against current protocols is excusible under Rule of Drama and the fact that Ro (technically the only one of the three with any actual authority under RW protocols) was basically wrong, and everybody was keen to find any other option than doing what she wanted, which is - while contrary to protocol - very much something that does actually happen.
Shamrock Holmes
Oh, true.
Then working double shifts would not work.
Yes but this would only do for the officer in charge. And explain why is everybody on the bridge.
But you are right, on one hand Picard slurp his tee in the ready room, but on the other I myself have experience of working - doing nothing for 10 hours and it was still exhausting.
Oh, true.
Then working double shifts would not work.
Yes but this would only do for the officer in charge. And explain why is everybody on the bridge.
But you are right, on one hand Picard slurp his tee in the ready room, but on the other I myself have experience of working - doing nothing for 10 hours and it was still exhausting.
Just keeping an eye on things, assuming you do it correctly, could be the most tiresome work in the world. Because on one hand you are forbidden from doing anything that could help pass the time a little faster and on the other you need to keep your attention at its peak all the time. The need to relax is not a luxury, it's something absolutely necessary.
Not necessarily, not all shifts would have to be equal in size, some departments might not normally operation three identical size shifts, it might be the "main shift" and two skeleton crew shifts, unless there's an emergency or special project.
Some of the departments might complete shut down during the night shift. Why would there need to be a psychological counselor on duty 24 hours a day?
Some part of the ship would by necessity be 24 hour operations.
Emergency medical services in sick bay would be 24 hours, but thing like scheduled surgeries and medical exams are during the full sized day shift.
Day shift could simply be where the senior officers and division heads/chiefs and administrative people normally work, this would make it easier for them to interact with each other on a daily basis.
Middle rank officers managing the other two shifts. Senior officers would alway be on call.
^that sound plausible.
However there could be issues.
Like getting ahold of Troi, at a time she is supposed to work, she is hiding on the bridge...
And are officers with children on permanent "day" duty?
Or if someone is working "day" and hos to visit a "day" based service?
I realize that these are simple scheduling issues and a regular switch of shift hours could solve them.
By the way would maintenance be done during day or at night?
Also if we take E-D's 3 shift schedule:
0-8
8-16
16-24
I could see Crusher taking the 16-24 bridge duty, and Data the 0-8.
However there could be issues.
Like getting ahold of Troi, at a time she is supposed to work, she is hiding on the bridge...
And are officers with children on permanent "day" duty?
Or if someone is working "day" and hos to visit a "day" based service?
I realize that these are simple scheduling issues and a regular switch of shift hours could solve them.
By the way would maintenance be done during day or at night?
Also if we take E-D's 3 shift schedule:
0-8
8-16
16-24
I could see Crusher taking the 16-24 bridge duty, and Data the 0-8.
^that sound plausible.
However there could be issues.
Like getting ahold of Troi, at a time she is supposed to work, she is hiding on the bridge...
And are officers with children on permanent "day" duty?
Or if someone is working "day" and hos to visit a "day" based service?
I realize that these are simple scheduling issues and a regular switch of shift hours could solve them.
By the way would maintenance be done during day or at night?
Also if we take E-D's 3 shift schedule:
0-8
8-16
16-24
I could see Crusher taking the 16-24 bridge duty, and Data the 0-8.
Well, given the kind of advice that Troi dispenses: "Clean up your act or we'll assign you to a cargo ship." I think we can do without her...
I can see Data working two shifts, since he doesn't need to sleep he would get the same amount of off-duty awake time as the rest of the (humanoid) crew.
Officer of the watch between 0 and 8, then his normal second officer activities between 8 and 16. From 16 through 0 he would be free to engage in private activities.
Officer of the watch between 0 and 8, then his normal second officer activities between 8 and 16. From 16 through 0 he would be free to engage in private activities.
Well, when else are junior officers like Kim going to get the experience they need to earn promotion?
It should be noted that in TOS and TNG both, the episodes typically open when there is already an "adventure" going on. The ship has either encountered something alarming (and may already be on red alert) or has entered the starting point of her mission as scheduled.
It would make sense, then, for the people on the bridge to not represent whatever shift the duty roster assigns for that specific time in "normal" conditions, but rather to be a specifically summoned "A-team" of senior officers and the occasional prodigy or apprentice. The camera just missed the moment where the regular shift handed over the bridge to the A-team.
During standard shifts, junior officers would be doing the menial task of sitting in the center seat. On occasion, people who in theory might have better things to do can take a shift or two as well, just to stay current to the required skills (if any), or to pass the time, or to give a bit of free time to juniors who really don't need the tedium of sitting through the bridge command of another shift. But when the alert sounds, or when standard orbit around the target world approaches, somebody with real commanding experience takes the center seat, and at least two department heads sit down at the bridge stations of their respective departments.
As for the shifts reflecting some sort of synchronizing with HQ, we know that this isn't true in the general case. Starships do not worry about synching: they may be outside any sort of contact with this so-called "Federation Timebase" for extended periods of time, and even when within range of that service they make precious little use of it. Only when they have special reason to suspect that some unscheduled time travel has taken place do they consult the Timebase ("Cause and Effect", "Clues").
Timo Saloniemi
It would make sense, then, for the people on the bridge to not represent whatever shift the duty roster assigns for that specific time in "normal" conditions, but rather to be a specifically summoned "A-team" of senior officers and the occasional prodigy or apprentice. The camera just missed the moment where the regular shift handed over the bridge to the A-team.
During standard shifts, junior officers would be doing the menial task of sitting in the center seat. On occasion, people who in theory might have better things to do can take a shift or two as well, just to stay current to the required skills (if any), or to pass the time, or to give a bit of free time to juniors who really don't need the tedium of sitting through the bridge command of another shift. But when the alert sounds, or when standard orbit around the target world approaches, somebody with real commanding experience takes the center seat, and at least two department heads sit down at the bridge stations of their respective departments.
As for the shifts reflecting some sort of synchronizing with HQ, we know that this isn't true in the general case. Starships do not worry about synching: they may be outside any sort of contact with this so-called "Federation Timebase" for extended periods of time, and even when within range of that service they make precious little use of it. Only when they have special reason to suspect that some unscheduled time travel has taken place do they consult the Timebase ("Cause and Effect", "Clues").
Timo Saloniemi
I am sorry but that's not my point. The Night shift is arbitrary, it's no more likely to be uneventful than any other shift.
Why would the junior need to face an uneventful shift in order to gain experience? I'd think just the opposite...
It's just that if the ship is asked to do a lot of stuff, it might be scheduled so that one of the day shifts is awake when the stuff needs doing - that is, the night shift would be uneventful because the CO always decides that the ship will enter standard orbit during one of the day shifts.
The Voyager would be an unlikely example of this practice, as she braves unknown space. The Enterpise-D would be quite likely to know down to a second when the next adventure begins, though: it's quite seldom that trouble comes looking for the E-D, and far more typical that the E-D goes looking for trouble after having had plenty of time to decide on a schedule.
Timo Saloniemi
It's just that if the ship is asked to do a lot of stuff, it might be scheduled so that one of the day shifts is awake when the stuff needs doing - that is, the night shift would be uneventful because the CO always decides that the ship will enter standard orbit during one of the day shifts.
The Voyager would be an unlikely example of this practice, as she braves unknown space. The Enterpise-D would be quite likely to know down to a second when the next adventure begins, though: it's quite seldom that trouble comes looking for the E-D, and far more typical that the E-D goes looking for trouble after having had plenty of time to decide on a schedule.
Timo Saloniemi
I wouldn't use "seldom", there are quite a few episodes where trouble finds the ship without the ship seeking it.
