Kruge: Good villain?

[EnriqueH]

Star Trek III was the second movie I ever saw in theaters. I loved it. I always have.

I always liked Kruge, but as I grew up and read books, internet boards and the like, I have found that not everyone was a big fan of Kruge.

What do you guys think?

While nobody can live up to Montalban's Khan, I enjoyed Kruge's performance and view him (and his motley crew) as the faces of the new version of the Klingons, (even though Mark Lenard and friends were technically the first appearance of the new Klingons).

In trying to understand the less than enthusiastic responses to Kruge, I can come up with that a little too much Christopher Lloyd comes through now that I've seen some of his other work. But then, I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Timo]

Kruge didn't have a TOS episode that would have made the audience nostalgic. But he did have the Klingon nature down pat: devious, vain, ruthless, clever where it matters, gullible when the plot calls for it, and with "worthy adversary" stamped on his forehead so hard that it left bumps.

I love how Kruge is his own man despite being a Klingon: he shows off his muscles to his own crew (apparently giving rise to myths that Klingons are very strong, when it's actually Kruge who is strong and an obvious exception), he whispers in front of them, he casually kills them in fits of rage or in tactical gambits, and he apparently also constantly plots against everybody, from his lowest underling to his highest superior.

Despite being such an exception, he's still also the missing link between the likes of Kor and Koloth and the 24th century Klingons. And he's a cute character functionally in that he's an underdog enemy, flying an inferior ship deep inside enemy territory, losing crew left and right, having history's biggest source for power and wealth slip from his hands bit by bit, until the only thing he can do is try and grip it at the throat or, ultimately, the ankle with his muscular hands...

In short, perfectly sized for the temporarily downgraded main protagonist!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

I love Kruge! Kruge and Kang are my favorite Klingons!

 

[RoJoHen]

I like Kruge. Honestly, I think it might have been fun if he had survived and replaced the Klingon captain from TFF.

 

[EnriqueH]

Kruge didn't have a TOS episode that would have made the audience nostalgic. But he did have the Klingon nature down pat: devious, vain, ruthless, clever where it matters, gullible when the plot calls for it, and with "worthy adversary" stamped on his forehead so hard that it left bumps.

I love how Kruge is his own man despite being a Klingon: he shows off his muscles to his own crew (apparently giving rise to myths that Klingons are very strong, when it's actually Kruge who is strong and an obvious exception), he whispers in front of them, he casually kills them in fits of rage or in tactical gambits, and he apparently also constantly plots against everybody, from his lowest underling to his highest superior.

Despite being such an exception, he's still also the missing link between the likes of Kor and Koloth and the 24th century Klingons. And he's a cute character functionally in that he's an underdog enemy, flying an inferior ship deep inside enemy territory, losing crew left and right, having history's biggest source for power and wealth slip from his hands bit by bit, until the only thing he can do is try and grip it at the throat or, ultimately, the ankle with his muscular hands...

In short, perfectly sized for the temporarily downgraded main protagonist!

Timo Saloniemi

Nice post, man!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I wonder how different Kruge would have been if Edward James Olmos (who auditioned) had played him.

 

[EnriqueH]

Hmmm, I have a lot of respect for Olmos. He's a very good actor. He could've pulled it off.

 

[BigJake]

Not my favourite, but he wasn't bad. The actor certainly seemed to be having a blast portraying him, which always helps.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

A great Klingon & adversary.

A great use of Christopher Lloyd's particular skill as an actor.

 

[EnriqueH]

Y'know, I only voted the casual "I liked him", but I guess he IS one of my favorites because I'm really glad to see him get some love.

I was under the impression that fans were split on Kruge.

 

[Tosk]

"Because you wish it!"

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Following TWOK, the need to keep the aging 1701 crew active / in the mix of things required a familiar threat--and one that would officially restore the Klingons to their position as ST antagonists--something TMP failed to do.

 

[Lance]

I find Kruge to be quite a sympathetic villain.

He does some bad things. But from his POV, he's trying to learn about what he thinks is a top secret weapon the UFP are developing. This movie came out at the height of the Cold War, when this kind of 'misunderstanding' was exactly the sort of thing that regularly created tensions between the USA and USSR, and I think Kruge can easily be painted as a loyal subject of the Klingon Empire, and (in many ways) a pretty good counterpart to Kirk himself, as some of the best Klingon adversaries over the years had been.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I find Kruge to be quite a sympathetic villain.

He does some bad things. But from his POV, he's trying to learn about what he thinks is a top secret weapon the UFP are developing. This movie came out at the height of the Cold War, when this kind of 'misunderstanding' was exactly the sort of thing that regularly created tensions between the USA and USSR, and I think Kruge can easily be painted as a loyal subject of the Klingon Empire, and (in many ways) a pretty good counterpart to Kirk himself, as some of the best Klingon adversaries over the years had been.

Sympathetic? He understood the Genesis project was was designed for terraforming, and mocked one of his officers for theorizing about that. To see the project only for a destructive application speaks to his (and his government's) own violent, adversarial nature. I think that was his purpose in the film--along with the aforementioned restoration of Klingons as real enemies, instead of do-nothing victims of the 1st movie.

 

[EnriqueH]

Following TWOK, the need to keep the aging 1701 crew active / in the mix of things required a familiar threat--and one that would officially restore the Klingons to their position as ST antagonists--something TMP failed to do.

Well, in TMP's defense, I'm not so sure TMP was even trying to do that.

Instead, I think TMP is trying to establish just how big a threat V'Ger is by wiping out *3* Klingon cruisers like nothing.

So it's kind of a backhanded compliment to the Klingons, they're trying to show how powerful a force V'Ger is by wiping out the Enterprise's arch-villains with ease.

 

[Lance]

I find Kruge to be quite a sympathetic villain.

He does some bad things. But from his POV, he's trying to learn about what he thinks is a top secret weapon the UFP are developing. This movie came out at the height of the Cold War, when this kind of 'misunderstanding' was exactly the sort of thing that regularly created tensions between the USA and USSR, and I think Kruge can easily be painted as a loyal subject of the Klingon Empire, and (in many ways) a pretty good counterpart to Kirk himself, as some of the best Klingon adversaries over the years had been.

Sympathetic? He understood the Genesis project was was designed for terraforming, and mocked one of his officers for theorizing about that. To see the project only for a destructive application speaks to his (and his government's) own violent, adversarial nature. I think that was his purpose in the film--along with the aforementioned restoration of Klingons as real enemies, instead of do-nothing victims of the 1st movie.

Hmm, I take that on board. But it's like I say about the Cold War: numerous things that were almost push-the-button incidents during that period can be looked back on now as the misunderstandings they really were. Perhaps Kruge didn't believe the rhetoric about the terraforming (which is his mistake, obviously), but that doesn't mean his motivations weren't, in his own mind at least, sound.

Obviously he made the wrong assumption, and in the eyes of our heroes (and therefore from *our* perspective too) he's the villain, plain and simple. But maybe, just maybe, Kruge wasn't acting with villainous motives in mind... he might've just been a loyal officer, thinking foremost of the future security of the Klingon Empire, and his belief that their opponents might be up to something under the disguise of a so-called 'terraforming project'.

His actions are driven by paranoia. But they aren't, entirely, unjustifiable actions in themselves... from a certain point-of-view.

 

[Timo]

One piece of Klingon rhetoric that rings false but actually might hit the mark is the Ambassador's accusation that Planet Genesis is a "secret base" for attacking the Empire. Let's remember that in "Errand of Mercy", barebones Class M worlds devoid of industries or armaments were considered a vital strategic resource for waging a further campaign of conquest - perhaps such worlds are in fact less common than we think, and the ability to create them on demand would be a key strategic advantage for military campaigns?

That is, pushing a button and creating a world may expand your empire with one more habitable world, but that's immaterial compared with the fact that it allows you to utterly destroy the empire of your enemy! If Kruge assumed such a thing, it would also be logical for him to think that the Federation teams toiling at Planet Genesis would be there to evaluate the military worth of the "base", and would be well versed in the military aspects of the project...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SPCTRE]

Not my favourite, but he wasn't bad. The actor certainly seemed to be having a blast portraying him, which always helps.

Yup, pretty much how I felt about him.

 

[TheSubCommander]

It was definitely hard for any villain to follow Khan, but I think Kruge was a worthy villain. Lloyd did a great job depicting a villain who was clearly a jingoistic villain, but actually thought he was on the right side. Villains who honestly think they are the good guy, and even display a degree of honor (warped as it may actually be) are the most interesting villains.

 

[drt]

I voted "neutral" which is more a reflection of my overall opinion of TSFS.

It's funny, while there's nothing I actually dislike about TSFS, it's probably the Trek film I watch the least. Probably because to me it largely exists just to reset the events of TWOK, as opposed to really moving things forward.