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Odd Choices in TOS-R cgi fx

No, they're actually vintage Fisher-Price Little People (1972-1974).

Gah! Ninja'd!

D'oh!

You're right. It's been so long since I saw either—except the now popular CGI Lego people animations, which bear a close resemblance. Snap-on hair. But who can forget that Weeble jingle? Fisher-Price and Lego red shirts can certainly fall down.
 
IIRC they were constantly messing with the CGI model from episode to episode- adding this and reducing the file size and those shows were not done in broadcast order so the Enterprise looks uneven from show to show.

I definitely think this was one of the biggest problems. The out-of-order nature of their work means the final product has got inconsistencies even from episode to episode when watched in broadcast order.

But things like that shuttlebay shot are simply unforgivable. It's a weak connect. :(
 
14minutes-1.png

11minutes.jpg


Someone mentioned in another thread that perhaps CBS-D was on a tight schedule which was perhaps why they didn't fix the lack of reflections in Where No Man Has Gone Before.

What was required is laughably easy. I did it in 14 minutes in Sony Vegas (HD video editor software) You simply cut out a mask of the screen, put in a track above, flip it upside down, blur it, and you're done. I added 2 extra blur tracks to finesse it. The initial space/ pull away shot would have been easy with the tracking effects you can find in After Effects or Mocha. Perhaps another 15 minutes?

M posted a great video.
He said:

While it certainly didn't take me – i.e. someone who's still learning how to use video editing software – only five minutes to make, it's obviously doable with very little effort


Video HERE
 
^^ Seriously, though, something like this didn't need to be fixed. The same with replacing a wheel style chronometer with a digital one or something of a different colour. It was change for change sake and not needed. There are other instances where things were changed for no substantial reason.

Swapping out the reused stock footage of the WNMHGB version of the ship for the proper series production version made sense. Adding blinking eyes to a Gorn does not. Fixing the misalligned (and typed) medical reports of Dehner and Mitchell made sense. Completely changing the look of the energy barrier didn't. Changing the look of Flint's home made sense, but completely changing the look of the Tholian ships or dumbing down the look of the Klingon battle cruiser didn't. Changing the design of Kara's ship (from "Spock's Brain") also didn't make sense.

The general mindset should have been simple: what could TOS have done (within context of the show's overall aesthetic) if they had had a more reasonable amount of time and money to offer state-of-the-art f/x of the day while not veering too far from what they managed to do?

So you show an Enterprise that's complete rather than finished only on one side. You retain the design and colour scheme of the Klingon ship while adding some detail like lighted windows (as if it were a large model like the 11 footer E). You can sharpen up the look of some of the planets while retaining their general colour scheme. If an existing sequence works as is but just needs to be cleaned up or fleshed out a bit then that's all you do rather than replacing it entirely with something new. If a sequence doesn't make sense then you can replace that with something new while staying consistent with what is actually happening in the story.

There are lots and lots of things they did wrong in TOS-R and a few things they were at least on the right track if not got right. And there were a few things that could be changed, but they could have done better.
 
I'm a big fan of the TOS shuttlecraft and the hangar deck and I was appalled seeing what CBS did to them. It was a complete and very sick joke.

I'm a goddamned amateur when it comes to computer modelling and cgi and I probably could have done better.

The hangar was absolute crap. Not only was it as realistic as a 1990s arcade game, but it was inexplicably darkened. If that was not bad enough, who on earth told CBS to change the scale of the shuttle? The CBS version is too large for the interior of the deck.
 
I agree with all your points Warped9, however I DO think they would have fixed this shot if they had the chance because:

A-They made a quality show and tried to anticipate every detail.
B-They only reason they didn't was because who knows how long it would have taken (weekly show) or how expensive it would have been to do this shot "old school"
C-If we went back in time and said "Hey we can fix this easily" and "free" they would have jumped at it!

:)
 
Candidly the actual in scale shuttlecraft would have been somewhat larger than the one originally seen onscreen.

And you do what Starship Exeter and Star Trek Continued do: use cgi to look like it's old school.
 
Any idea why in "The Apple," they changed the planet from red to brown/green/blue? I'm guessing they felt the more earthlike color scheme was a more realistic match for the way the planet appeared on the surface, but it's definitely a sharp departure from the original.

I'm thinking the answer to this one is pretty simple: It's an example of the people behind the TOS-R project thinking they knew better than the folks who did the original show. Whatever TOS-R did wrong usually started with this assumption.

Here's one that drives me nuts - the arbitrary changing of the color scheme of Scalos in "Wink of an Eye":





What were the remastered people thinking? "Oh, those poor dumb people in the 60s obviously didn't mean to make this cityscape blue -- We'll fix it"? :cardie:

The TOS version of the shot is better composed, has a better color scheme, pops off the screen better, and is just overall more pleasing to the eye. Because the people who did this show to begin with knew what they were doing. The TOS-R version just adds more dull grey, making for a far less visually-pleasing scene.
 
Here's one that drives me nuts - the arbitrary changing of the color scheme of Scalos in "Wink of an Eye":





What were the remastered people thinking? "Oh, those poor dumb people in the 60s obviously didn't mean to make this cityscape blue -- We'll fix it"? :cardie:

The TOS version of the shot is better composed, has a better color scheme, pops off the screen better, and is just overall more pleasing to the eye. Because the people who did this show to begin with knew what they were doing. The TOS-R version just adds more dull grey, making for a far less visually-pleasing scene.


Well, it's down to taste then, because I think the original version is servicable and satisfactory, but its main selling points now are nostalgia and preservation. This on-set use of the matte painting from "A Taste of Armageddon" reveals its large size. It's neat to see that. [Edit: I just thought of something. The re-used matte painting of Eminiar VII isn't really that large. The Scalos set is built in front of a rear-screen projection of (surely) a 35mm slide of that painting.]

The new version, to me, is one of TOS-R's visual highlights in terms of making the show look more real. It has a greater sense of sunlight and distance. It's better suited to broaden the show's appeal beyond us old-time fans.
 
^^[Referring to the table reflection shot in WNMHGB] Seriously, though, something like this didn't need to be fixed.

I think it did, and it was not a stylistic change. It was fixing something that was wrong. While others have shown how easy it is to fix the shot with common desktop video tools, the demonstration is still not quite right. The demo reflection is too bright, since a lit panel was used on the set. A new desktop should be match-moved in so that a dimmer reflection, showing only the brighter areas of the screen, is visible.

I did something like this to fix a continuity error in a feature film. A hurricane is tearing a house apart, and framed photographs are seen to fall off a hallway wall. In shot 1, a medium CU, the photos drop on cue when actuators in the wall pull away. Then along comes shot 2, a long shot looking down the hall, and the photos are suddenly back up. I had to match-move a new wall into the shot—and it was a wood paneled wall with lots of detail. On top of that, I had actors ducking from the wind and leafy debris blowing around them. Both the actors and their shadows were moving about right over the area where the photos were still on the wall. So I had to add rotoscoping to the fix, too. Oh, did I mention that it was also a hand-held shot, shaking about in the violence of the storm?

Here's one that drives me nuts - the arbitrary changing of the color scheme of Scalos in "Wink of an Eye"... What were the remastered people thinking? "Oh, those poor dumb people in the 60s obviously didn't mean to make this cityscape blue -- We'll fix it"? :cardie:

Don't be so snarky. The original set designers worked with limited facilities and time. The primary change here is making the sky brighter. The new city could have been a night or twilight shot, too. But then realistically not much of the city would be seen... unless lights were added, which is exactly what the artists who were paying attention to the script didn't want. They wanted a city that looked dead.

Perhaps the CBS artists tried bluish daylight, as it would be on Earth. On the other hand, I think the dusty yellow looks "more dead" (as opposed to mostly dead or all dead ;)). Remember, Scalos had been destroyed by the dust and radiation from volcanic eruptions.

Does the new shot "match" the production design of the show? That's debatable. While I grumble about all the "miniature" animation in TOS-R, the scene extension ("matte paintings") are generally an improvement.
 
II don't think the table top reflection is something that could have been easily done in 1966. To that end they should have left it alone.

This is a big bone I have with a project like this. Fixing things in a way that couldn't have been done originally. Lots of things could have been done originally given added time and money, but TOS-R indulged in fixes thst couldn't have been done back in the day.
 
II don't think the table top reflection is something that could have been easily done in 1966.

As an optical effect, it would have been more difficult than with today's tools, true. But considering the size of the screen, it could have been rear-projected on the set, which would have produced a natural reflection for free.

Or the prop artists could have used a dark prop, rather than one that was illuminated. That's what makes the reflection jump out.
 
Actually, optically it would have been just a flipped version of the matted screen area double exposed over the tabletop. Pretty simple.
 
Here's one that drives me nuts - the arbitrary changing of the color scheme of Scalos in "Wink of an Eye"... What were the remastered people thinking? 'Oh, those poor dumb people in the 60s obviously didn't mean to make this cityscape blue -- We'll fix it'? :cardie:

Don't be so snarky. The original set designers worked with limited facilities and time. The primary change here is making the sky brighter. The new city could have been a night or twilight shot, too. But then realistically not much of the city would be seen... unless lights were added, which is exactly what the artists who were paying attention to the script didn't want. They wanted a city that looked dead.

Perhaps the CBS artists tried bluish daylight, as it would be on Earth. On the other hand, I think the dusty yellow looks "more dead" (as opposed to mostly dead or all dead ;)). Remember, Scalos had been destroyed by the dust and radiation from volcanic eruptions.

I have to agree with JohnnyQuest037's general point about the color. I don't mind them replacing mattes, but I prefer it when they do so with something that is faithful (to a point) to the original. In this case, retaining the blue tint would have been enough.

Something similar to Scalos happens with "The Menagerie", where a night-time window shot behind the disabled Captain Pike is replaced with a 'day shot', all because the TOS-R artists decided to get artsy-fartsy trying to create a sense of day time versus night-time with the new matte paintings. Again, I wouldn't mind them replacing the window matte, but I'd rather they replaced it with something that at least maintains faith with the original.
 
One change they did make in a shuttle launch I really liked- when Matt Decker steals one to confront the DM. It lifts off before the turntable has set been set to launch position and wobbles some before leaving. You really get the feeling of his anger and desperation. The original shot has it leaving like it was on a planned mission following traditional protocols.
 
all because the TOS-R artists decided to get artsy-fartsy trying to create a sense of day time versus night-time with the new matte paintings.

Is it "artsy-fartsy," or merely something different? Most window shots in TOS (such as the bridge's main viewscreen) are dark and star-filled. Maybe the TOS-R artists decided to throw in some daytime backgrounds for a little variety. Is there anything in the "Menagerie" script that tells us what time of day it is?

I like the "Menagerie" change out Pike's window. It adds depth and makes the scene feel less like a set. Then again, all the "outdoor" scenes in TOS shot on sets have the even, controlled lighting of a set. I would have preferred more unbalanced lighting to make those scenes look more outdoorsy.

(I think it was HBO's FROM THE EARTH TO THE MOON that used clusters of lights all pointed at a mirror rig on the ceiling to produce the bright, single-light-source effect needed for the Moon shots.)
 
One change they did make in a shuttle launch I really liked- when Matt Decker steals one to confront the DM. It lifts off before the turntable has set been set to launch position and wobbles some before leaving. You really get the feeling of his anger and desperation. The original shot has it leaving like it was on a planned mission following traditional protocols.
I hated that sequence.

Speaking of shuttlecraft I liked very much what STC did in two of its episodes. What they did could have been done on TOS given sufficient time and some extra money. Nothing in those sequences looks out of place in terms of what couldn't have done back in the day. It makes what CBS did look pathetic.
 
I thought it odd that a project that purported to respecting the original would inject so much fanon into the mix as well.
 
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