Odd Choices in TOS-R cgi fx

[Ssosmcin]

Just the sound of the Enterprise in the exterior shots is the tipoff. The rumble is present in all of the second and third season episodes, but it wasn't used after the first season. I wasn't even used in every episode of the first season, but some episodes, like "The Naked Time" have a unusually loud rumble on the mono track where there wasn't one before.

If you have Amazon Prime Instant Video, check out the original effects episodes of the third season. For just about every episode, they're the original sound mix. I don't know why they stuck older prints on there, but I'm grateful. Just compare, say' the "original mono broadcast track" on the Blu-Rays to what's on there. Day of the Dove, for example. No rumble and even Shatner's "that'll take us out of the galaxy" is a different reading. Ch-ch-ch-changes!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Regarding the crossfades, like at the end of WNMHGB when the shot dissolves from Kirk on the planet to the Enterprise in orbit, I wish they had preserved the orginal dissolve by leaving the original fx shot in there and just gradually over-writing it with the new CGI Enterprise and new stars, positioned to pefectly overlay them. At the end of the cross-fade, the CGI shot would be fully in place. This would also save the closing gag in "Spock's Brain."

 

[ZapBrannigan]

If I was given that job my first priority would be to duplicate all of the most common stock shots of the Enterprise so that you'd have the bulk of the series VFX work done right at the top, so if it happened that time and budget didn't allow a new shot to be created you'd always have the equivalent of the original as a fallback.

They seem to have done this for many of the original fx shots, but they wanted to avoid re-using them as often as the original version did.

The gorgeous shot the Enterprise peeling away at the end of "Journey to Babel"

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x10hd/journeytobabelhd1450.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x10hd/journeytobabelhd1454.jpg

and obviously, the "font shot" I cited in the O.P.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0899.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0902c.jpg

I think new viewers would dislike seeing the same stock shots repeated so often, while an old hand like me considers the original angles the most beautiful ones, and never tires of them.

 

[Ssosmcin]

On the original effects version of WNMHGB on the Blu-Ray's, it's now a jump cut. They hold on Kirk longer than they used to and the dissolve is gone. There's always something....

 

[Harvey]

Just the sound of the Enterprise in the exterior shots is the tipoff. The rumble is present in all of the second and third season episodes, but it wasn't used after the first season. I wasn't even used in every episode of the first season, but some episodes, like "The Naked Time" have a unusually loud rumble on the mono track where there wasn't one before.

If you have Amazon Prime Instant Video, check out the original effects episodes of the third season. For just about every episode, they're the original sound mix. I don't know why they stuck older prints on there, but I'm grateful. Just compare, say' the "original mono broadcast track" on the Blu-Rays to what's on there. Day of the Dove, for example. No rumble and even Shatner's "that'll take us out of the galaxy" is a different reading. Ch-ch-ch-changes!

I know the sound has been tampered with on at least some of the Blu-Ray mono mixes, but how do we know the versions on Amazon are actually the originals?

 

[uniderth]

I wish they would have modeled the old AMT model as the basis for the Constellation, rather than copy and paste. I understand they are supposed to be of the same class and the AMT model was inaccurate. But the copy and paste version just looks wrong.

 

[Lance]

(3) At 25:35 we see Kirk's POV on the Constellation auxiliary room's viewer of the Enterprise firing phasers at the planet killer. But right after that we cut to a bridge shot as Matt Decker yells out ''Fire''. Weren't they just doing that in the previous shot? The new FX made the Decker shot redundant. What they should have done was simply a shot as the Enterprise too dangerously approaches the machine, then cut to Decker.

They also keep the screen malfunctioning too long. In the TOS-R print he says "what the devil's going on?" and we go back to the POV shot and the screen is still fritzing a bit more than then finally activates. In the original, he says the line and when we see the screen, it's fully activated. He actually saw the Enterprise approaching the PK, which was not yet firing phasers, so he really didn't know yet what was going on.

Stuff like this reminds me of how on the original series Doctor Who DVDs, they offer optional modern CGI effects on some stories, but on one of them they misunderstood the on-screen action effects and mistakenly added some CGI laser bolts coming from the sky to "explain" why there were explosions going off on the surface of a planet... despite the fact that the dialogue actually tells us that the explosions are because of underground mining. :facepalm:

One would think the minimum requirement for the people doing these kinds of things would be to have watched the episodes in question thoroughly before making such bizarre errors of judgement. But nope, apparently not.

 

[Maurice]

I wish they would have modeled the old AMT model as the basis for the Constellation, rather than copy and paste. I understand they are supposed to be of the same class and the AMT model was inaccurate. But the copy and paste version just looks wrong.

I don't happen to agree with this, and I bet 99% of the viewers couldn't spot the difference between the models anyway. It would be foolish to waste money on such a minor tweak that less then 1% of your audience would notice or care about.

 

[spockboy]

I can't tell you how happy I am to find I am not the only one who found CBS Digital's effects were below par, I agree that some of the Matte Paintings were beautiful but there were many other problems. You have all made some wonderful points. Here are a few of mine to begin with.

A-Woefully low polygon count. Now if you are going to go THIS low, just get an AMT model! At least the globes will be actual globes.

The Enterprise was NOT flat grey. It was a well know greeny-grey color which Trek fan Prologic 9 easily captured.

IMO The Klingon Ship was a disaster.
I never thought it was possible to make that design look bad but CBS somehow achieved it!
Here it is compared to Trek fan Prologic 9's version, which has captured Matt Jeffries' wonderful 2 tone coloring of the Klingon ship that CBS obviously missed.

CBS Digital always claimed that they wanted to be as faithful to the original as possible.

Which looks more faithful to the original?

And finally CBS Digital had a problem with light. There was never enough contrast or color which made their models look even more flat and cartoony, as can be seen here in a side by side with Eden FX (who bid for the job but CBS Digital won because they were in house and cheaper)

 

[Maurice]

Which looks more faithful to the original?

0

The fact that you can see straight lines where it ought to be smooth curves is indefensible. The TOS-R Klingon ship is a POS.

 

[Count]

the entire shuttle escape sequence in Gallileo 7 looked awful. The fuel burn is worse then stuff I was pulling off in LW6 back when I was 10 years old. So disgustingly poor quality I thought I was watching a fan-film like Hidden Frontier or something for a moment.

Also the day of the dove, I have never seen such an abysmal attempt at making a ship explode in my life, it was beyond pathetic...

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I think the CBS Klingon ship looks okay, it's just that it could have been better if the time and money had been there.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The TOS-R Klingon ship looks atrocious. CBS managed to turn one of the all-time great starship designs into an eyesore. Way to go!

 

[Ssosmcin]

I know the sound has been tampered with on at least some of the Blu-Ray mono mixes, but how do we know the versions on Amazon are actually the originals?

Granted, some of the sound and video was tooled with for home video even back in the 80's when the series made its full debut on VHS and Laserdisc. For example, some of the sound effects in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" were dialed back, such as the sound of the phaser rifle hitting the ground after Mitchell tosses it from Kirk's grasp and the energy bolts between Elizabeth and Gary. We've never had a 100% accurate presentation of Star Trek on home video (the 80's prints were the closest we got), however, to my recollection, the exterior engine rumble was never heard in the second and third seasons in syndication until 1999 onward. I grew up listening to audio tapes of Star Trek, well before I had a VCR and I played them constantly. When the DVDs came out, the changes hit me like a hammer. I was, and am, more concerned with the audio of the series than the video, which is why I still watch the lasers. So, I'll say with confidence that the Amazon prints are the pre-1999 sound mix.

If someone has audio from the NBC run that shows that they used the rumble in the latter seasons...well, I won't be happy, but I'll finally shut up about it. If it matters, I have a 16mm film print of "Bread and Circuses" and there's no rumble.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The "phaser sweep" in "Wink of An Eye" bugged me, too. They just took a still shot of Kirk, Spock and the two guards, animated their arms and phaser beams around to do the sweep, losing the POV shot of what they are looking at. Before, we didn't see beams, just the green animation filling the corridor, letting the blast actually sweep, not their arms, which made sense, especially with the changed way the stun worked (no beam just the green flash). I prefer, to quote Homer Simpson, "less artsy, more fartsy." I almost always go back to the original effects. Only "Tomorrow is Yesterday" makes me smile. Even though the sun could be better, at least the slingshot effect makes sense now. But other episodes, like "Errand of Mercy" and "The Ultimate Computer," were disappointments. The Thasian ship in "Charlie X" is ridiculous (energy beings needed "power pods" on their "ship?"). And the green hand in "Adonias" being "projected" from Pollux IV didn't look right at all.

I would have also preferred just being faithful to the originals, like TNG. I still would love to see an accurate recreation of "The Doomsday Machine" just to see how awesome the original design would look with outbackground bleeds.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Watched a few TOS episodes on blu-ray recently and I've gone back to the original effects. The CGI was nice at first, but it's not aging well and unfortunately many episodes that really need it don't look all that good at all.

I thought the CGI was terrible when first released. Not a single CG 1701 appeared to be a solid body at all--just some amateurish, gray animation effect better suited for Cartoon Network's Green Lantern series.

It is too bad the unprofessional cartoons of TOS-R are distributed, since it gives a poor impression of the series.

The most damning assessment of TOS-R is that too many fan films generate superior CG Constitution class ships that a production with budgets only a fraction of that afforded CBS.

 

[22 Stars]

I'll add my voice to the chorus, saying it was surely a mixed bag. I appreciate the hard work done on a tight schedule, and am a huge fan of the Okudas. As I watch and rewatch TOS-R, with the excitement surrounding the project now a bit faded, I find the FX haven't really held up for me.

Love the additional matte paintings, expanding the scope of the set-bound shots like in Way to Eden and Spock's Brain. Love the new planets and asteroids, but I agree with those that the compositional choices made for many shots was lacking. Not to mention the visible low poly counts.

I loved the shot in Amok Time walking across the land-bridge, but wanted more of that type of thing, and better resolution/composition.

Some triumphs, many failures. It was a project I long hoped someone would tackle, but I do wish it had been done a bit better. They could have used these models for a TAS-Reaniamated and been a great achievement, but they simply weren't realistic enough for this project I'm afraid.

Maybe now that the Smithsonian is restoring the Enterprise, CBS can borrow it and shoot all the model shots again

 

[Lance]

I'll add my voice to the chorus, saying it was surely a mixed bag. I appreciate the hard work done on a tight schedule, and am a huge fan of the Okudas. As I watch and rewatch TOS-R, with the excitement surrounding the project now a bit faded, I find the FX haven't really held up for me.

Love the additional matte paintings, expanding the scope of the set-bound shots like in Way to Eden and Spock's Brain. Love the new planets and asteroids, but I agree with those that the compositional choices made for many shots was lacking. Not to mention the visible low poly counts.

I loved the shot in Amok Time walking across the land-bridge, but wanted more of that type of thing, and better resolution/composition.

Some triumphs, many failures. It was a project I long hoped someone would tackle, but I do wish it had been done a bit better. They could have used these models for a TAS-Reaniamated and been a great achievement, but they simply weren't realistic enough for this project I'm afraid.

Maybe now that the Smithsonian is restoring the Enterprise, CBS can borrow it and shoot all the model shots again

Now that *is* and intriguing proposition...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

They could have used these models for a TAS-Reaniamated and been a great achievement, but they simply weren't realistic enough for this project I'm afraid.

Most of your post I agree with, but I have to focus on this part here.

I completely disagree with this.

I did a complete rewatch of TAS last week, and I looped through the Klingon and Romulan D7 beauty shots numerous times. They really are a pleasure to behold, even with the "torpedo tube" error. Substitute those with the TOS-R Klingon model, and I'd be pretty much just as unhappy with that hypothetical TAS-R as I am with TOS-R.

No thanks!

 

[MGagen]

Put me in the "mixed bag" camp.

The biggest problem: Lighting, lighting, lighting! Where's Jerry Finnerman when you need him? You can have the most accurate models in the universe (they didn't) and still they will look like garbage if you can't light them properly. The CGI lighting looks like it was handled by novices.

My biggest heartbreak: The Doomsday Machine. If ever a story could benefit from updated effects. And yet we replace the original colorful, crystalline-looking DM with a flatly lit, utterly neutral gray, almost untextured looking toy. How about some colored light from different directions to liven things up a bit? No. it's just boring old 128-128-128 Gray. It doesn't even look finished. When a studio light fixture wrapped in foil and plastic looks more convincing that a CGI model you know you're doing something wrong.

And don't get me started on some of the impossible planetary lighting. A planet with bright orange and green clouds...and utterly neutral gray rocks. That can't happen anywhere in the universe we inhabit. Gray takes on the colors that surround it. What actual color is a rock that appears neutral gray when reflecting orange light from one direction and green light from another? Bah!

I give them an A- for effort, but a C+ for results. I see a lot of love poured into making the remastered effects, and sometimes they are magic; but often they fall sadly short. I understand the budget limitations they were working under, but given all the money Paramount has made off Star Trek over the years it's just too bad they couldn't chip in enough to get a competent effects house involved. The in-house CBS techs just weren't up to the challenge.