Terry Farrell and DS9 Season 7

[USS Crazy Horse]

I shall avoid the issues of acting ability and monetary concerns as I feel enough has been said on these in 16 pages!

My major issue with the change form Jadzia to Ezri is that, once again, the position of Science Officer (in terms of a senior officer who is a regular character) disappeared. Granted that it was written in a time of war and so a Counselor was needed to asses the psychological state of the crew, however this seems to have become the norm in post TOS trek.

TOS - Spock > Sonak (TMP, killed in transporter accident), Decker > Spock.
TNG - Apparently Data, amongst everything else he did, but he is an android, so I can not argue. The only additional point is the existence of dedicated science stations on the bridge, but no "perma-character" to use them.
DS9 - Jadzia Dax.
VOY - Mix and match until "7 of 9".
Ent - T'Pol, however this just, in my opinion, felt like fan service ~ a Vulcan Science Officer, where have I heard that one before? As well as "eye candy" ~ a female in skin tight cat suits, once again, where have I heard that one before?

It just seems odd to me that a role with such a high level of importance, in a show about discovery and exploration, keeps disappearing or being incorporated into other roles.

I am not sure what you are getting at. Dax is the only case in which the character disappeared and there was not science/ops officer. And, yes, Spock would not have reprised his role in the anticipated Next Phase series, leading to Sonak being created. However, those changes were made largely due to the choices of the actors, not because of story choices.

Perhaps more importantly, Deep Space Nine is not about "exploration and discovery." It is about encounters and conflicts. The science of of Trek was deliberately weaker in DS9 than in the other series of the franchise. Dax, along with Bashir and O'Brien, were there to inform us about science and technology issues when they were relevant. However, her character was more important as the Old Man: the person who advised Sisko about political and strategic issues.

It is worth saying that Enterprise was only secondarily about exploration and discovery: it was primarily an origins story of the other series.

Sorry, I was being a pedant with regard to the non-existence of the role. My working role is within the Sciences and consequently I deem it to be a high priority division, especially when no other Officer possesses this as their primary specialism.
Furthermore, with O'Brien being the Chief Engineer and Bashir the CMO, they would more than likely be busy within their respective roles, particularly in a combat scenario. As such, if a new ship/ weapon/ similar were to come to bear upon the Defiant, the Science officer would be the logical person to analyse and apply/ recommend a method of countering the new threat.
Hopefully this clarifies my thinking more coherently than my previous post.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

There should be no shortage of science officers in a future where science has a prominent role most of the time in the crises they are to resolve.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I shall avoid the issues of acting ability and monetary concerns as I feel enough has been said on these in 16 pages!

My major issue with the change form Jadzia to Ezri is that, once again, the position of Science Officer (in terms of a senior officer who is a regular character) disappeared. Granted that it was written in a time of war and so a Counselor was needed to asses the psychological state of the crew, however this seems to have become the norm in post TOS trek.

TOS - Spock > Sonak (TMP, killed in transporter accident), Decker > Spock.
TNG - Apparently Data, amongst everything else he did, but he is an android, so I can not argue. The only additional point is the existence of dedicated science stations on the bridge, but no "perma-character" to use them.
DS9 - Jadzia Dax.
VOY - Mix and match until "7 of 9".
Ent - T'Pol, however this just, in my opinion, felt like fan service ~ a Vulcan Science Officer, where have I heard that one before? As well as "eye candy" ~ a female in skin tight cat suits, once again, where have I heard that one before?

It just seems odd to me that a role with such a high level of importance, in a show about discovery and exploration, keeps disappearing or being incorporated into other roles.

I am not sure what you are getting at. Dax is the only case in which the character disappeared and there was not science/ops officer. And, yes, Spock would not have reprised his role in the anticipated Next Phase series, leading to Sonak being created. However, those changes were made largely due to the choices of the actors, not because of story choices.

Perhaps more importantly, Deep Space Nine is not about "exploration and discovery." It is about encounters and conflicts. The science of of Trek was deliberately weaker in DS9 than in the other series of the franchise. Dax, along with Bashir and O'Brien, were there to inform us about science and technology issues when they were relevant. However, her character was more important as the Old Man: the person who advised Sisko about political and strategic issues.

It is worth saying that Enterprise was only secondarily about exploration and discovery: it was primarily an origins story of the other series.

Sorry, I was being a pedant with regard to the non-existence of the role. My working role is within the Sciences and consequently I deem it to be a high priority division, especially when no other Officer possesses this as their primary specialism.
Furthermore, with O'Brien being the Chief Engineer and Bashir the CMO, they would more than likely be busy within their respective roles, particularly in a combat scenario. As such, if a new ship/ weapon/ similar were to come to bear upon the Defiant, the Science officer would be the logical person to analyse and apply/ recommend a method of countering the new threat.
Hopefully this clarifies my thinking more coherently than my previous post.

I'm still not clear on the problem. There's never a shortage of scientists in any Trek series. Given the peculiar focus of DS9, Sisko's staff really didn't need a scientist: it needed an anthropologist, a political scientist, and a strategist (a role Worf filled). There was little science for Dax to do, even in the context of combat. Perhaps more importantly, the challenges of running the station would probably not have prioritized a scientist. In the other series, the ship is largely on its own, on the borders, and it would be useful for someone with broad scientific knowledge close at hand. DS9 was in the middle of the action. There were plenty of scientists on every ship.

the Breen energy weapon required scientific analysis, but I would argue it was approached more realistically. Rather than coming up with an ad hoc solution on the spot, a copy of the weapon was captured so that it could be studied.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Would it have changed anything if she hadn't pissed them off?

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Jadzia being killed off was definitely a mistake IMO. I mean yeah we got to see a new Dax and all, but after 6 years of getting to know Jadzia and then the whole thing with Worf, it's just incredibly sad when she dies.

 

[dub]

I agree. If they were going to kill off Jadzia, they should have done it during "What You Leave Behind"...you know, as a valentine.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I agree. If they were going to kill off Jadzia, they should have done it during "What You Leave Behind"...you know, as a valentine.

Only if it's Harry Kim's holodeck fantasy, because ... sorry, I can't think of any pressing decision he had to make.

 

[dub]

Harry who?

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I agree. If they were going to kill off Jadzia, they should have done it during "What You Leave Behind"...you know, as a valentine.

Only if it's Harry Kim's holodeck fantasy, because ... sorry, I can't think of any pressing decision he had to make.

You forget about the time when Neelix offered him to choose between two of his indigestible meals... I guess that could work if Jadzia died of food poisoning... In the end Kim decides not to take the risk and fasts instead.

 

[STEPhon IT]

DS9 didn't require a science officer if the Federation is in a ridiculous full scale war. Science dept shifts to medical and wait for the casualties.

 

[Iamnotspock]

Jadzia being killed off was definitely a mistake IMO. I mean yeah we got to see a new Dax and all, but after 6 years of getting to know Jadzia and then the whole thing with Worf, it's just incredibly sad when she dies.

Well, yes, it's meant to be.

Good drama shouldn't play it safe, it should make you think, subvert your expectations and rip your guts out.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Jadzia being killed off was definitely a mistake IMO. I mean yeah we got to see a new Dax and all, but after 6 years of getting to know Jadzia and then the whole thing with Worf, it's just incredibly sad when she dies.

Well, yes, it's meant to be.

Good drama shouldn't play it safe, it should make you think, subvert your expectations and rip your guts out.

It's unnatural that with all the dangerous missions they go through none of the main characters even gets killed. That's not the way it works in real life. Real life doesn't care if you're famous or a joe regular.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

It's unnatural that with all the dangerous missions they go through none of the main characters even gets killed. That's not the way it works in real life. Real life doesn't care if you're famous or a joe regular.

You're right. The show with the faster-than-light space travel, humanoid crinkly-nosed aliens, liquid shapeshifters, warlike bumpyheads, symbiote worms living in people's bodies, time travel, parallel universes, sentient holograms, and wormhole aliens who live all time simultaneously should be more realistic.

 

[Praetorian]

That's a non sequitur.

All those things you mention could exist, we just don't know.

But wars? We know much about that subject, unfortunately. People tend to die in them.

(Even in Eminiar 7)

Let's not confuse realistic with credible.

Fact is, Jadzia should have died in battle, to show how war actually is.

 

[MacLeod]

I shall avoid the issues of acting ability and monetary concerns as I feel enough has been said on these in 16 pages!

My major issue with the change form Jadzia to Ezri is that, once again, the position of Science Officer (in terms of a senior officer who is a regular character) disappeared. Granted that it was written in a time of war and so a Counselor was needed to asses the psychological state of the crew, however this seems to have become the norm in post TOS trek.

TOS - Spock > Sonak (TMP, killed in transporter accident), Decker > Spock.
TNG - Apparently Data, amongst everything else he did, but he is an android, so I can not argue. The only additional point is the existence of dedicated science stations on the bridge, but no "perma-character" to use them.
DS9 - Jadzia Dax.
VOY - Mix and match until "7 of 9".
Ent - T'Pol, however this just, in my opinion, felt like fan service ~ a Vulcan Science Officer, where have I heard that one before? As well as "eye candy" ~ a female in skin tight cat suits, once again, where have I heard that one before?

It just seems odd to me that a role with such a high level of importance, in a show about discovery and exploration, keeps disappearing or being incorporated into other roles.

Remember in VOY's case Janeway was a Science officer. Besides I get the feeling that ship wasn't really designed to primairly either a science ship or exploration ship. So might hot need that many science officers. And on the mission in to the badlands might not have had man scientist onbaord as it was supposed to be a short mission.

 

[USS KG5]

Fact is, Jadzia should have died in battle, to show how war actually is.

She should, in fact it wouldn't have been hard at all.

In the battle, big hit on Defiant where Jadzia is at the helm, she gets thrown back suddenly in a shower of sparks.

Sisko: "Get her to sickbay, Mr Nog, take the helm!"

Then the battle proceeds as in the episode, at the end while celebrating...

Sisko: "Sisko to medical bay, how is Jadzia doing?"
Bashir: "I'm sorry Captain, she's dead, I've managed to save the symbiont, but Jadzia was killed instantly..."

Actual proper war death, sudden, brutal, pointless, cruel.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Fact is, Jadzia should have died in battle, to show how war actually is.

She should, in fact it wouldn't have been hard at all.

In the battle, big hit on Defiant where Jadzia is at the helm, she gets thrown back suddenly in a shower of sparks.

Sisko: "Get her to sickbay, Mr Nog, take the helm!"

Then the battle proceeds as in the episode, at the end while celebrating...

Sisko: "Sisko to medical bay, how is Jadzia doing?"
Bashir: "I'm sorry Captain, she's dead, I've managed to save the symbiont, but Jadzia was killed instantly..."

Actual proper war death, sudden, brutal, pointless, cruel.

Or my version:

Bashir: "Sorry, Worf, I cannot save her or the symbiont. We need to perform the jantara so Odo can absorb all the past personalities."

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Fact is, Jadzia should have died in battle, to show how war actually is.

She should, in fact it wouldn't have been hard at all.

In the battle, big hit on Defiant where Jadzia is at the helm, she gets thrown back suddenly in a shower of sparks.

Sisko: "Get her to sickbay, Mr Nog, take the helm!"

Then the battle proceeds as in the episode, at the end while celebrating...

Sisko: "Sisko to medical bay, how is Jadzia doing?"
Bashir: "I'm sorry Captain, she's dead, I've managed to save the symbiont, but Jadzia was killed instantly..."

Actual proper war death, sudden, brutal, pointless, cruel.

Or my version:

Bashir: "Sorry, Worf, I cannot save her or the symbiont. We need to perform the jantara so Odo can absorb all the past personalities."

That's good except that they still need a trill to put his hands on both of them and say the mumbo-jumbo otherwise it won't work, not to mention the cauldron of hot mud that seems to fulfill a function of some kind, too.

 

[dub]

I think the writers were pissed at Terry, so they decided to live vicariously through Dukat.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I think the writers were pissed at Terry, so they decided to live vicariously through Dukat.

Wasn't Dukat living vicariously through the pah wraith?