NFL 2014-2015 Season Discussion

[Alidar Jarok]

Look. I think it's quite possible the Patriots cheated. I think that cheating shouldn't be excused and should be punished if the NFL believes it to have occurred. But I also know (and I would hope everyone else knows) that the Colts weren't winning that game regardless of ball inflation. They just played poorly. Disqualifying the Patriots and putting the Colts in the Super Bowl makes about as much sense as putting the Packers in. The Packers at least played well last week.

 

[Shaw]

The they didn't need to cheat to win argument is nothing more than a rationalization... we don't apply that to other aspects of our lives when cheating is discovered.

And this would have taught them (and their fans) that it would have been better not to have cheated.

Considering the amount of money that we (as a society) put into sports, the least we should expect back from them is that they be pillars of sportsmanship. Morals, ethics and fair play isn't too much to ask from people making trillions off the rest of us.

Think about it.

 

[Skywalker]

Assuming they actually did cheat, that is. The NFL still hasn't discovered any real evidence of wrongdoing, or if they have then they've yet to make it public. The farther we get away from the initial report by Bob Kravitz--who is now among those questioning whether or not things happened the way it was originally assumed, by the way--the bigger the holes in this story become.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The they didn't need to cheat to win argument is nothing more than a rationalization... we don't apply that to other aspects of our lives when cheating is discovered.

And this would have taught them (and their fans) that it would have been better not to have cheated.

Trust me, I'm not a Patriots fan. But I'm also not a fan of the Super Bowl champion being possibly a team that played terribly the week before and would have lost no matter what. The Colts simply don't deserve to be in the Super Bowl. If they had at least done something to make it competitive, I might see something there, but they weren't and I don't. You can still punish attempts to influence the game and deter future bad conduct by taking away draft picks and levying fines. But I can't see changing the results of a game unless the cheating itself changed the results of a game.

I'll use an example. If the Colts had been down a point and gone for it on fourth down. They get the first down by one inch but someone from the Patriots kicks the chains so they move by two inches (thus making them appear a yard short), it's possible to say "well, they would have scored and won the game had they gotten that first down." No such argument exists in this game.

 

[Tom Servo]

The fact that the team has to deal with this crap going to the Superbowl is infuriating. Get your shit together NFL.

You are absolutely right.

What should have happened was that at half-time the officials should have walked out on the field and said the game has been forfeited by the Patriots, the Colts are going to the Superbowl. That is when an investigation could get started on who was responsible (even if it turns out to be the lowest paid member of their staff) without the distraction of preparing for a game which they shouldn't be taking part in. The who did/knew what part shouldn't be the first part, it should be secondary to the team being eliminated from the playoffs.

If we want to stop cheating, make it so no team would want to cheat... at any level. Monetary fines for the ultra rich are pointless, but pull then from the Superbowl and you'll start seeing them cry uncle.

As Tom said: Get your shit together NFL.

But you can't pull a team from the Superbowl because you think they MIGHT have cheated. What happens if it is found out (and this seems more and more likely each day this goes on), that they didn't cheat.

Also, if youre gonna do that, I guess the Packers should forfeit every game where Aaron Rodgers uses an overinflated football.

Thats the thing with the whole story. The NFL hasn't even charged them with cheating yet! They're only cheaters in the court of public opinion.

 

[Yanks]

It is a loaded question. All athletes "cheat". Every offensive lineman holds etc. If he says no and something ever comes out, now he's a liar. It blows up.... we all know the drill. When asked that, even if it's true in some way, does anyone expect him to say "yes"? It's just a jerk question.

Well, I think there's a difference between a hold in a game and premeditated tampering with the equipment (I'm not saying Tom Brady did that, I'm saying that it's not the same thing and I'm skeptical that someone would call someone a liar if that's what they actually did).

But let's assume you're right. Let's assume that all that conduct, even in-game penalties, constitute cheating. And let's agree that all athletes cheat. In what ways is Tom Brady a cheater, in your opinion?

I don't think he is. He didn't write the tuck rule

Pro athletes just shy away, and rightfully so, questions like that. Can't really blame them.

I guess my point about hold is, they all do it and all know everyone does it. If they get caught, they are penalized. It appears the Patriots got caught. The NFL just needs to fine them and move on.

I'm just not watching any ESPN or NFL network right now because I'm tired of listening to it.

They pumped the balls up at half-time, right? So what's the worst we have here? Some deflated ball for 1/2 the game? Hell, the Patriots played better in the second half.

The fact that the Colts couldn't tackle had nothing to do with the pressure in the stupid balls.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I don't think he is.

You said all athletes cheat, though. Tom Brady is an athlete. Therefore, Tom Brady cheats. Isn't that what you said?

If he isn't a cheater, why couldn't he have answered "no" to that question? You said it was a loaded question with no good answer, but now you're saying it has a good answer ("no").

They pumped the balls up at half-time, right? So what's the worst we have here? Some deflated ball for 1/2 the game? Hell, the Patriots played better in the second half.

Not only did they play better in the second half, but they often ran in the first half (negating the need to deflate the balls). I think there's no plausible argument that intentionally deflating the footballs changed the outcome of the game. That being said, unnecessary cheating would still be cheating.

 

[Timby]

I don't think he is.

You said all athletes cheat, though. Tom Brady is an athlete. Therefore, Tom Brady cheats. Isn't that what you said?

If he isn't a cheater, why couldn't he have answered "no" to that question? You said it was a loaded question with no good answer, but now you're saying it has a good answer ("no").

Yeah, as I said a page or two ago, saying "I don't believe so" in response to being asked if you're a cheater is the kind of response you'd give as a hostile witness at a felony trial.

They pumped the balls up at half-time, right? So what's the worst we have here? Some deflated ball for 1/2 the game? Hell, the Patriots played better in the second half.

Not only did they play better in the second half, but they often ran in the first half (negating the need to deflate the balls). I think there's no plausible argument that intentionally deflating the footballs changed the outcome of the game. That being said, unnecessary cheating would still be cheating.

They didn't actually re-inflate the balls, just as a point of order -- at some point in the first half the officials confiscated the Patriots' balls for inspection and the remainder of the game was played with the Colts' balls.

Balls.

 

[Yanks]

If he isn't a cheater, why couldn't he have answered "no" to that question? You said it was a loaded question with no good answer, but now you're saying it has a good answer ("no").

No, read my post. I said I don't think he's a cheater and there is no good answer to the question.

 

[Yanks]

They didn't actually re-inflate the balls, just as a point of order -- at some point in the first half the officials confiscated the Patriots' balls for inspection and the remainder of the game was played with the Colts' balls.

Balls.

Oh, cool. Thanks.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

If he isn't a cheater, why couldn't he have answered "no" to that question? You said it was a loaded question with no good answer, but now you're saying it has a good answer ("no").

No, read my post. I said I don't think he's a cheater and there is no good answer to the question.

But you also said all athletes cheat, no? I realize this conversation is turning into an absurdity, but you're the one who is acting like this is a question of metaphysics.

 

[Yanks]

If he isn't a cheater, why couldn't he have answered "no" to that question? You said it was a loaded question with no good answer, but now you're saying it has a good answer ("no").

No, read my post. I said I don't think he's a cheater and there is no good answer to the question.

But you also said all athletes cheat, no? I realize this conversation is turning into an absurdity, but you're the one who is acting like this is a question of metaphysics.

absurd aye

 

[Gil T.Azell]

the parodies have begun,
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoqg15tCyiA[/yt]

 

[Green Shirt]

Your open bias is hilarious.

So is yours.

So whoever doesn't bow down and worship the almighty pats are biased?

So only Patriots fans are allowed to support their team, huh?

BTW, The Ravens' golf game, their murder sprees, and other illegal, immoral activity are doing just fine this off season - while the pure as driven snow Patriots will ascend into heaven on their angel's wings Sunday evening.

Time to hang up the phone on this absurd conversation.

 

[gblews]

If the Pats don't use all this deflategate hoopla as a psychological springboard to a Super Bowl win, then I'm afraid they are truly a souless team.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Pats are a talented enough team that they don't need something like this to win. If the fact that it's the Super Bowl isn't motivation enough, they got bigger problems.

 

[gblews]

Pats are a talented enough team that they don't need something like this to win. If the fact that it's the Super Bowl isn't motivation enough, they got bigger problems.

A cliche that coaches like to use because they don't want to get blamed for not having their teams emotionally ready to play a big game . I think they also believe it takes away the feeling that they got beat by a team who just "wanted" it more.

These two teams are pretty evenly matched so the psychological/emotional part of the game is likely to be the deciding factor.

 

[Yanks]

Seattle 21 - New England 20

So it shall be written

 

[Scout101]

I'll take 24-17 Patriots

 

[JirinPanthosa]

What would the world be like if Nixon had just bugged a different hotel that day? Reporters would actually have to be creative in naming scandals.

If only Nixon had bugged a hotel whose name ended in 'Balls'. Then all scandals would have 'Balls' at the end of their name, and the world would be a slightly funnier place.

I'm a big Pats fan, and the Pats clearly cheated those years they were videotaping the opponent's defense but I'm not convinced in this case the balls were intentionally deflated to get an advantage. Not only is it something they knew the NFL would check at the end of the game, it benefits both quarterbacks equally. Andrew Luck could grip the deflated balls just as well as Tom Brady. And they used the backup balls when the error was detected. If any other team was found with deflated balls that wasn't just recently involved in another cheating scandal, nobody would care.